The End Of Single Crew Commercial Flights ?
Single pilot commercial operations are safe
Of all the potential hazards in aviation, single pilot operation of a small, simple fixed gear aircraft on short stages of under one hour, rates at the very bottom of the list. A functioning autopilot would be helpful in the a/c, but dual controls and a driver's assistant in the taxi to the airport would make a more substantive contribution to public safety IMHO!
Just to get back on topic - put the handbags away you two - we lost an aeroplane at BRU in the 1980s when the single pilot descended below DH and into the ground well short of the airfield.
That surely would not have happened on a two-crew aeroplane.
Single crew = acceptably safe in the real world.
Two crew = safer.
No doubt about that in my mind.
That surely would not have happened on a two-crew aeroplane.
Single crew = acceptably safe in the real world.
Two crew = safer.
No doubt about that in my mind.
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Don't worry Expressflight, we're just having fun which I think is still allowed round these parts. Nobody sems to be biting though, maybe we should insult a few more nationalities? 
Agree with your comments on two-crew, how could I not? I'm afraid I can't agree with twochai though. If he's speaking from personal experience then single pilot ops must be a whole lot different in his part of the world. I can think of few things more unsafe than single crew, short flights in busy (UK) airspace.
Agree with your comments on two-crew, how could I not? I'm afraid I can't agree with twochai though. If he's speaking from personal experience then single pilot ops must be a whole lot different in his part of the world. I can think of few things more unsafe than single crew, short flights in busy (UK) airspace.
The discussion was mainly about small, remote communities like Alderney (or Tiree, Benbecula, the BC coastal communities, etc., etc.) . They depend upon air service to an extent that demands economically viable solutions. Are two crew safer? Of course they are. So would a full CAT 3 ILS at St. Mary's help with the fog problems in the Scillies.
All I'm suggesting is that a modicum of common sense and perspective be applied, rather than a blanket one-size-fits-all solution that would make basic air service an unaffordable luxury.
All I'm suggesting is that a modicum of common sense and perspective be applied, rather than a blanket one-size-fits-all solution that would make basic air service an unaffordable luxury.
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"All I'm suggesting is that a modicum of common sense and perspective be applied,"
not much chance of that me thinks.
The bottom line is, the CAA,JAA,EUOPS,FAA,and every other aviation authority across the globe deem single crew safe enough. Aircraft manufacturers also produce VLJ aircraft, which are designed for single crew ops (if flown on corporate).
Most helicopters are single crew, and a lot more difficult to fly.
not much chance of that me thinks.
The bottom line is, the CAA,JAA,EUOPS,FAA,and every other aviation authority across the globe deem single crew safe enough. Aircraft manufacturers also produce VLJ aircraft, which are designed for single crew ops (if flown on corporate).
Most helicopters are single crew, and a lot more difficult to fly.
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QUOTE:
Often the only time you see anything is on take off roll and touchdown,
UNQUOTE
In which case, the availability and use or not of an autopilot is the least of your legal concerns (Minimum approach RVR 800m for SPO under JAR).
Often the only time you see anything is on take off roll and touchdown,
UNQUOTE
In which case, the availability and use or not of an autopilot is the least of your legal concerns (Minimum approach RVR 800m for SPO under JAR).
Apache for HEMS - Strafe those Survivors!
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sp ifr in a helicopter requires a functioning autopilot, and my goodness you need it when you do not have an FO, even in what the CAA class as a simple light twin (EC 135- light it may be, simple...mmmm), not sure if the exemption for the BO 105 for this has expired yet.
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Originally Posted by twochai
All I'm suggesting is that a modicum of common sense and perspective be applied
Originally Posted by flynowpaylater
not much chance of that me thinks..................Most helicopters are single crew, and a lot more difficult to fly.
Originally Posted by keepin it in trim
sp ifr in a helicopter requires a functioning autopilot,
Aaah, irony.
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Originally Posted by keepin it in trim
sp ifr in a helicopter requires a functioning autopilot
In my days the passive-fail three-axis attitude hold system I described met the CAA requirements.
...and my goodness you need it when you do not have an FO, even in what the CAA class as a simple light twin (EC 135- light it may be, simple...mmmm)
But even something far simpler than a full three or four axis autopilot, such as the system I was talking about, already makes a vast difference.
(Yes we did a full autopilot too...)
not sure if the exemption for the BO 105 for this has expired yet
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Eye in the sky - What exactly is the relevance of that message? I was pointing out that the workload can be constant from the minute you start....and the vis could actually be as little as 500m if observed, which is only 5/800m contact with the ground when you are on the ground..
Flintstone - where do these people come from?
Flintstone - where do these people come from?
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Interesting that VLJ's have had a mention. By coincidence I was having a conversation with a friend at EASA about this very subject and crewing requirements.
JAR-OPS 1 requires all commercial air transport operations in turbo-jet aeroplanes at night or under instrument flight rules (IFR) to have two pilots. As VLJs will be certificated as single pilot aeroplanes we can expect the manufacturers to have this requirement amended; it is felt that a very strong safety case, would have to be made before there are any changes in this requirement. Corporate operators may well dictate that all flights carrying company passengers must be crewed by two type rated pilots.
Then we have the insurance companies that will only insure turbo-jet aeroplanes when flown with two rated pilots there are a few companies that will accept single pilot operations but with a much higher premium. This will likely be the incentive to always fly with two type rated pilots. The point being that when flying VLJs with two pilots, both must be type rated. Taking an inexperienced pilot as a second pilot to meet any regulatory requirements would only increase the workload of the captain as he would have monitor all actions by the second pilot as well as dealing with his own duties. It makes sense then that where two pilot operations are required both pilots must be type rated.
Going back to piston ops, the same conversation leads me to believe that EASA are looking at the issues raised by the CAA following the Loganair accident, and have extended discussions beyond ambulance flights. It is not unusual for JAA/EASA regulations to come up with solutions that are akin to sledgehammers to crack nuts. My understanding is that in one meeting the discussions considered the suggestion that all commercial transport ops should use only turbine aircraft, the belief being that it would have a minimal impact on commercial operations...
JAR-OPS 1 requires all commercial air transport operations in turbo-jet aeroplanes at night or under instrument flight rules (IFR) to have two pilots. As VLJs will be certificated as single pilot aeroplanes we can expect the manufacturers to have this requirement amended; it is felt that a very strong safety case, would have to be made before there are any changes in this requirement. Corporate operators may well dictate that all flights carrying company passengers must be crewed by two type rated pilots.
Then we have the insurance companies that will only insure turbo-jet aeroplanes when flown with two rated pilots there are a few companies that will accept single pilot operations but with a much higher premium. This will likely be the incentive to always fly with two type rated pilots. The point being that when flying VLJs with two pilots, both must be type rated. Taking an inexperienced pilot as a second pilot to meet any regulatory requirements would only increase the workload of the captain as he would have monitor all actions by the second pilot as well as dealing with his own duties. It makes sense then that where two pilot operations are required both pilots must be type rated.
Going back to piston ops, the same conversation leads me to believe that EASA are looking at the issues raised by the CAA following the Loganair accident, and have extended discussions beyond ambulance flights. It is not unusual for JAA/EASA regulations to come up with solutions that are akin to sledgehammers to crack nuts. My understanding is that in one meeting the discussions considered the suggestion that all commercial transport ops should use only turbine aircraft, the belief being that it would have a minimal impact on commercial operations...
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Flintstone - The auto pilot rule is not only applicable to Helicopters, but fixed wing as well.
If the A/P doesn't work, then you must 2 crew the flight. With 2 OPC'd pilots.
As I said - not much chance of that (common sense) me thinks.
Irony is..........that the first milestone in a pilot's career is going solo !
If the A/P doesn't work, then you must 2 crew the flight. With 2 OPC'd pilots.
As I said - not much chance of that (common sense) me thinks.
Irony is..........that the first milestone in a pilot's career is going solo !
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Flintstone - The auto pilot rule is not only applicable to Helicopters, but fixed wing as well.
If the A/P doesn't work, then you must 2 crew the flight. With 2 OPC'd pilots.
If the A/P doesn't work, then you must 2 crew the flight. With 2 OPC'd pilots.
Is this thread going anywhere any more?
