Goldair (beautiful L45s) - What's its status now?
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http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=184103
£10 to the first person to spot them smiling.
My arse...
(I SMELL SPOTTERS)
£10 to the first person to spot them smiling.
My arse...
(I SMELL SPOTTERS)
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Daifly and Flanker,
I really do love aviation in general - yes, I am both a pilot and a person who appreciates the business-side of aviation (reason for Ryanair insights - although no vitriol directed toward Ryanair itself).
I question why people have to respond so negatively to simple questions - naive-sounding or otherwise. People don't have to respond to questions if they are not interested in the question...
I guess you could say I am not "jaded" like so many other pilots on this forum (seems quite evident that many people have not retained their enthusiasm for this job/lifestyle). That's pretty sad...
Daifly - I don't understand your attitude. Does it upset you that someone like me really does enjoy aviation - and perhaps you don't anymore? I am captivated by it. Is that why you attack me? In the future, instead of attacking an innocent question, perhaps you should just skip it - or contribute to the forum with your own interesting question.
Going forward, if I ask a question which you deem stupid or naive in the future, either provide a serious response or avoid it. I try to contribute positively on this and other forums. Time to move on....
Cheers
I really do love aviation in general - yes, I am both a pilot and a person who appreciates the business-side of aviation (reason for Ryanair insights - although no vitriol directed toward Ryanair itself).
I question why people have to respond so negatively to simple questions - naive-sounding or otherwise. People don't have to respond to questions if they are not interested in the question...
I guess you could say I am not "jaded" like so many other pilots on this forum (seems quite evident that many people have not retained their enthusiasm for this job/lifestyle). That's pretty sad...
Daifly - I don't understand your attitude. Does it upset you that someone like me really does enjoy aviation - and perhaps you don't anymore? I am captivated by it. Is that why you attack me? In the future, instead of attacking an innocent question, perhaps you should just skip it - or contribute to the forum with your own interesting question.
Going forward, if I ask a question which you deem stupid or naive in the future, either provide a serious response or avoid it. I try to contribute positively on this and other forums. Time to move on....
Cheers
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Lavdumper - I think it's worth remembering Groovers earlier post that there are other European Lear 45 operators out there and it isn't just Gold Air who have the monopoly. When all the attention is focused on one UK operator, the others, who do an equally good job, are bound to feel a little put out. 
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OK, you've calmed down a little, so I'll calm down a little.
I admire your continued enjoyment of aviation and all it possesses - I'm certainly not bitter about it all, and I have no desire to get out of it. There's always going to be this lack of understanding between America and UK humo(u)r, which naturally leads to problems. In the UK, humour (for what it's worth) is largely based around insult and p*ss-take - whereas in the States nobody dares to insult anyone at all - so we end up in this position of trading insults because of a lack of basic understanding.
So, we've got to move forward. Now either that involves us coming over there and teaching each and every one of you our sense of humour or, and this is more likely, I'll be a bit more contained in my responses to your spotting requests. BUT, don't push it...
- I take issue with your comment that I don't contribute to this forum though; I'm sure that someone at least will back up the fact that I make positive comments in other posts.
And one final thing, Lavdumper, you'll never understand my attitude!
There you go, that's almost an apology...
I admire your continued enjoyment of aviation and all it possesses - I'm certainly not bitter about it all, and I have no desire to get out of it. There's always going to be this lack of understanding between America and UK humo(u)r, which naturally leads to problems. In the UK, humour (for what it's worth) is largely based around insult and p*ss-take - whereas in the States nobody dares to insult anyone at all - so we end up in this position of trading insults because of a lack of basic understanding.
So, we've got to move forward. Now either that involves us coming over there and teaching each and every one of you our sense of humour or, and this is more likely, I'll be a bit more contained in my responses to your spotting requests. BUT, don't push it...
- I take issue with your comment that I don't contribute to this forum though; I'm sure that someone at least will back up the fact that I make positive comments in other posts.
And one final thing, Lavdumper, you'll never understand my attitude!
There you go, that's almost an apology...
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Lavdumper
If you have been a professional pilot for
more than five minutes you will either be cynical or have management ambitions.
For example I have been at the sharp end of a Lear 60 in Europe, it was far from being amazing or wonderful.I genuinely could not believe the poor training and the unprofessional attitude taken by the company towards many operational matters.
You don't seem to take on board the reality of what some people are telling you, so it is frustrating to continually see posts drooling over 'hot rods' like the Lears.
I personally think the Lear 60 looks quite nice, has nice engines but apart from that its awful.Ours were never out of maintenance for starters, the thing uses more runway than Concorde(AOC operation).I never met anyone who actually got to FL510 in one even if you were mad enough to want to!How it was certified for it I'll never know.
You can barely fit a pen in the cockpit and it's noisier than a bloody Islander - INSIDE!
The King Air 200 is the only other corporate type I have flown and although it is of course in a different class,it is ten times betterIMHO.
So if you go from a Bonanza to a Cheyenne, you will think the Cheyenne is a rocket ship.The rambling point of this post is that it's all relative when it comes to aeroplanes.
By the way I have no clue as to how happy or otherwise Goldairs pilots are,but are unlikely to be very different from any other bunch of pilots - an overpaid underworked bunch of whinging primadonnas!!
If you have been a professional pilot for
more than five minutes you will either be cynical or have management ambitions.
For example I have been at the sharp end of a Lear 60 in Europe, it was far from being amazing or wonderful.I genuinely could not believe the poor training and the unprofessional attitude taken by the company towards many operational matters.
You don't seem to take on board the reality of what some people are telling you, so it is frustrating to continually see posts drooling over 'hot rods' like the Lears.
I personally think the Lear 60 looks quite nice, has nice engines but apart from that its awful.Ours were never out of maintenance for starters, the thing uses more runway than Concorde(AOC operation).I never met anyone who actually got to FL510 in one even if you were mad enough to want to!How it was certified for it I'll never know.
You can barely fit a pen in the cockpit and it's noisier than a bloody Islander - INSIDE!
The King Air 200 is the only other corporate type I have flown and although it is of course in a different class,it is ten times betterIMHO.
So if you go from a Bonanza to a Cheyenne, you will think the Cheyenne is a rocket ship.The rambling point of this post is that it's all relative when it comes to aeroplanes.
By the way I have no clue as to how happy or otherwise Goldairs pilots are,but are unlikely to be very different from any other bunch of pilots - an overpaid underworked bunch of whinging primadonnas!!
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There must be a lot of very scared GA operators out there judging by the various posts.
For pity's sake guys and girls - can't u see that Gold Air is just more efficient and better equipped. The charter market is changing and you can't keep charging your clients more than the market level. If the brokers are adding large margins - which only the cowboys do - then eventually the customer will get wise and the broker will lose the customer... not rocket science is it. Given comparable service and as long as they make a profit then Gold Air can't fail -
If you are the cheapest and the best then you will do Ok - I should stop moaning and start competing before its too late.
Daifly and Groover - you both work for GAMA so I suppose you can be forgiven for feeling sore. But will you guys be able to compete with your LR45? Or will the interest bankrupt you? $80,000 per month minimum cash requirement. LR45 is not like a LR35 - it needs a lot of TLC to keep it serviceable and a shop load of test equipment.
For the record - Jamaica trip was actually OK and CAA looked at this trip at last ops inspection. No problems as far as FOI was concerned. FTL observed correctly - all a misunderstanding with the new ops guys (who may be learning but they're bright - a big improvement now they are at Biggin. There were a lot of problems when ops were based at Cambridge - just the fact that the aircraft were remote from the ops staff. Got a happy team now - no moaners anymore.
GirlonMars..... - trust you! You always were an old woman!
Fact - Gold Air did not lose $7 million last year but was planned to make a loss as a result of the cost of fleet renewal and has now made £200K first quater profit this year.
As they say...if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Rumour has it Gama only getting one LR45 now - anyone know anything? Also rumour that Chauffair in tatters - only one Excel and no more to follow??? What's going on there??
Chin chin
For pity's sake guys and girls - can't u see that Gold Air is just more efficient and better equipped. The charter market is changing and you can't keep charging your clients more than the market level. If the brokers are adding large margins - which only the cowboys do - then eventually the customer will get wise and the broker will lose the customer... not rocket science is it. Given comparable service and as long as they make a profit then Gold Air can't fail -
If you are the cheapest and the best then you will do Ok - I should stop moaning and start competing before its too late.
Daifly and Groover - you both work for GAMA so I suppose you can be forgiven for feeling sore. But will you guys be able to compete with your LR45? Or will the interest bankrupt you? $80,000 per month minimum cash requirement. LR45 is not like a LR35 - it needs a lot of TLC to keep it serviceable and a shop load of test equipment.
For the record - Jamaica trip was actually OK and CAA looked at this trip at last ops inspection. No problems as far as FOI was concerned. FTL observed correctly - all a misunderstanding with the new ops guys (who may be learning but they're bright - a big improvement now they are at Biggin. There were a lot of problems when ops were based at Cambridge - just the fact that the aircraft were remote from the ops staff. Got a happy team now - no moaners anymore.
GirlonMars..... - trust you! You always were an old woman!
Fact - Gold Air did not lose $7 million last year but was planned to make a loss as a result of the cost of fleet renewal and has now made £200K first quater profit this year.
As they say...if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Rumour has it Gama only getting one LR45 now - anyone know anything? Also rumour that Chauffair in tatters - only one Excel and no more to follow??? What's going on there??
Chin chin
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Well said correlator....In fact isnt that you I can see in the front of the Lear 45 picture Daifly kindly pointed us in the direction of... (with a big smile of course.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=184103
GRIN......
It is true though...There seem to have been plenty of posts lately about the possible ups and downs of GoldAir, but would be pretty interesting to hear about the ups and downs of some of the other boys....
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=184103
GRIN......
It is true though...There seem to have been plenty of posts lately about the possible ups and downs of GoldAir, but would be pretty interesting to hear about the ups and downs of some of the other boys....
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]
[ 06 November 2001: Message edited by: JetFlux ]
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Correlator
Nice words, I have very much enjoyed your well scripted press release, sorry posting.
I am sure most of it is indeed true, I find your 'we are the best so na na na na na' a tad childish, but I suppose we all believe that we are the best at what we do otherwise we wouldnt do it !
I still believe however that in this life you get what you pay for !!
As for us ? Don't believe everything you hear, I am sure that if you did, then you would have more to worry about than we do !!
As for being sore, the only thing that is sore at the moment is our 'asses' due to how hard we are working up to the arrival of our new aircraft (hmm do I detect the plural being used there ?........just watch this space !!!!!)
I dont apologise for my postings here, Lavdumpers original posting seemed to me to be boring, and pretty inconsequential, it was answered in a tongue and cheek manner that is what makes pprune so enjoyable, if he cannot accept others opinions then he should not be in here, will you take offence at this posting ? I think not, just as I have enjoyed yours, and indeed responding to it. Its called INFORMED debate (even though my tongue is firmly in cheek !),a lot more relevant than discussing how happy a pilot looks on a blurred photo !
TG
Nice words, I have very much enjoyed your well scripted press release, sorry posting.
I am sure most of it is indeed true, I find your 'we are the best so na na na na na' a tad childish, but I suppose we all believe that we are the best at what we do otherwise we wouldnt do it !
I still believe however that in this life you get what you pay for !!
As for us ? Don't believe everything you hear, I am sure that if you did, then you would have more to worry about than we do !!
As for being sore, the only thing that is sore at the moment is our 'asses' due to how hard we are working up to the arrival of our new aircraft (hmm do I detect the plural being used there ?........just watch this space !!!!!)
I dont apologise for my postings here, Lavdumpers original posting seemed to me to be boring, and pretty inconsequential, it was answered in a tongue and cheek manner that is what makes pprune so enjoyable, if he cannot accept others opinions then he should not be in here, will you take offence at this posting ? I think not, just as I have enjoyed yours, and indeed responding to it. Its called INFORMED debate (even though my tongue is firmly in cheek !),a lot more relevant than discussing how happy a pilot looks on a blurred photo !
TG
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Good Ole chaps---The Groover and silly Flanker,
By the way you cocky chaps sound, you're both in line for interviews to fly the Concorde. Your British "slapstick" humo(u)r
is hilarious to a point. I too will try to calm down and understand your semi-valid points. Sounds like Lavdumper still (??)
loves what he does and therefore should not be slammed for his enjoyment. I don't believe he was "brown nosing" for Goldair---it sounded like he just wanted to know alittle more about them. I am sure your company is also a good operator, and sure---you guys probably also do a good job---unless you both use some of that silly
humor on your pax----not good for repeat business--No? Lear 45's are nice birds, but so are Lear 35's. So, lay off people who actually enjoy this job, and you don't---quit. I'd rather hear from a "naive" person than a cocky one anyday. Get it? Got it? Good. Bye bye. Donkey Duke
By the way you cocky chaps sound, you're both in line for interviews to fly the Concorde. Your British "slapstick" humo(u)r
is hilarious to a point. I too will try to calm down and understand your semi-valid points. Sounds like Lavdumper still (??)
loves what he does and therefore should not be slammed for his enjoyment. I don't believe he was "brown nosing" for Goldair---it sounded like he just wanted to know alittle more about them. I am sure your company is also a good operator, and sure---you guys probably also do a good job---unless you both use some of that silly
humor on your pax----not good for repeat business--No? Lear 45's are nice birds, but so are Lear 35's. So, lay off people who actually enjoy this job, and you don't---quit. I'd rather hear from a "naive" person than a cocky one anyday. Get it? Got it? Good. Bye bye. Donkey Duke
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Mr Donkey
Apart from the last paragraph my post was entirely serious!
The point is we still don't know what Lavdumper actually flies.
I talk to the passengers on the PA, I try not to be funny because two might laugh, while the other hundred odd cringe in their seats.
Apart from the last paragraph my post was entirely serious!
The point is we still don't know what Lavdumper actually flies.
I talk to the passengers on the PA, I try not to be funny because two might laugh, while the other hundred odd cringe in their seats.
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Groover,
We don't think we are better than any other operator - we just want to compete in a competitive market. We provide a good service at a good price. The proof of that is in the pudding. We have flown over 1500 hours of Lear 45 charter in 9 months and so we are qualified to talk about Lear 45. It is a superb aircraft - and great to fly Lavdumper - but it requires a lot of technical input. Because of the CAS system you can't turn a blind eye to tech problems as many operators I have flown for have done. Because defects are "on screen" and logged in the CMC they must be addressed immediately if they can't be deferred IAW the MEL. There are a lot of no go items. we have over $1 million LRU spares according to stores and loads of trained and excellent techies available thru the night. if you plan to operate this airplane like a LR35 forget it - it will bankrupt you.
I wish you the best of luck with your LR 45 (s) - very genuinely. I suspect that in 6 months you will look back and agree that the above is very fair.
All I was suggesting in the previous post was that other guys give Gold Air a break and steer clear of the slagging - who knows you might want a job one day and it's a small world in aviation?
We don't think we are better than any other operator - we just want to compete in a competitive market. We provide a good service at a good price. The proof of that is in the pudding. We have flown over 1500 hours of Lear 45 charter in 9 months and so we are qualified to talk about Lear 45. It is a superb aircraft - and great to fly Lavdumper - but it requires a lot of technical input. Because of the CAS system you can't turn a blind eye to tech problems as many operators I have flown for have done. Because defects are "on screen" and logged in the CMC they must be addressed immediately if they can't be deferred IAW the MEL. There are a lot of no go items. we have over $1 million LRU spares according to stores and loads of trained and excellent techies available thru the night. if you plan to operate this airplane like a LR35 forget it - it will bankrupt you.
I wish you the best of luck with your LR 45 (s) - very genuinely. I suspect that in 6 months you will look back and agree that the above is very fair.
All I was suggesting in the previous post was that other guys give Gold Air a break and steer clear of the slagging - who knows you might want a job one day and it's a small world in aviation?
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Correlator,
Your answer was what I was originally looking for when I started this post. Thank you for your response.
You sound very pleased with the L45 and its performance. Too bad others can't be so content with their positions or jobs. I am NOT looking for a flight position (as others have surmised), but you certainly sound like a person I could work with if I were European and had the opportunity. Good luck with your operation and I hope to see pictures of you flying your L45 someday...
See you on the flight line!
Cheers (an enthusiastic aviator)
Your answer was what I was originally looking for when I started this post. Thank you for your response.
You sound very pleased with the L45 and its performance. Too bad others can't be so content with their positions or jobs. I am NOT looking for a flight position (as others have surmised), but you certainly sound like a person I could work with if I were European and had the opportunity. Good luck with your operation and I hope to see pictures of you flying your L45 someday...
See you on the flight line!
Cheers (an enthusiastic aviator)
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Lavdumper,
You're welcome.
I enjoy working for Gold Air and the morale here is higher than a kite which always makes it a pleasure. There have been some disruptive people come - but they go pretty quick as they do in any good firm. The world is full of twats and most of them are in aviation!
In the meantime good safe flying to you all - I still love flying after all these years and the LR 45 has just increased that pleasure - it flies as good as it looks.
You're welcome.
I enjoy working for Gold Air and the morale here is higher than a kite which always makes it a pleasure. There have been some disruptive people come - but they go pretty quick as they do in any good firm. The world is full of twats and most of them are in aviation!
In the meantime good safe flying to you all - I still love flying after all these years and the LR 45 has just increased that pleasure - it flies as good as it looks.
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HO HO HO Correlator
You did always have a talent for making us laugh, I am just glad that we were in Cambridge and you were in Biggin !!!
Still no hard feelings eh ?????
I bet Groover and Daifly are not sore if their website is anything to go by www.gamagroup.com/jobs.asp ...Gulfstream 4 crews for THEIR Zurich operation ??????? Whats that all about then ??????
Also heard directly from one of their Captains the other day at LTN, that they have a Hawker 1000 going on the British register by Xmas, before the Lear 45 comes - its a 'done deal' was his words!!!!
Looks like these boys are getting out of your Division 3 league Correlator old boy !!!!
Gizza Job lads !!!!!
You did always have a talent for making us laugh, I am just glad that we were in Cambridge and you were in Biggin !!!
Still no hard feelings eh ?????
I bet Groover and Daifly are not sore if their website is anything to go by www.gamagroup.com/jobs.asp ...Gulfstream 4 crews for THEIR Zurich operation ??????? Whats that all about then ??????
Also heard directly from one of their Captains the other day at LTN, that they have a Hawker 1000 going on the British register by Xmas, before the Lear 45 comes - its a 'done deal' was his words!!!!
Looks like these boys are getting out of your Division 3 league Correlator old boy !!!!
Gizza Job lads !!!!!
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Girlonmars,
Seen Gama website already - so what? You really do have a problem don't you? I think you should read the Gama recruitment section more carefully, particularly the bit which says the Gama look for team players - this precludes you. And both Gama and Gold Air are Premier league players - of course!!
Chin Chin old chap
Seen Gama website already - so what? You really do have a problem don't you? I think you should read the Gama recruitment section more carefully, particularly the bit which says the Gama look for team players - this precludes you. And both Gama and Gold Air are Premier league players - of course!!
Chin Chin old chap
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Wow! Girl From Mars sounds a bit cocky - she gives you the impression she flies the Concorde!
So, GFM, what do you fly that makes you so "high-and-mighty"?
By the way, your pissy attitude could use some work... Correlator sounds like he enjoys what he does - and you obviously don't! Perhaps you would rather be flying sleek L45s for Goldair? Am I wrong?
So, GFM, what do you fly that makes you so "high-and-mighty"?
By the way, your pissy attitude could use some work... Correlator sounds like he enjoys what he does - and you obviously don't! Perhaps you would rather be flying sleek L45s for Goldair? Am I wrong?
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Lavdumper
Hello darling - your secretary here.
Could you just clear up with these folk what type of plane you fly and from where ? I thought it was a Citation from LAX.
It all gets awfully confusing.And in your rant back see if you can avoid using 'lame',unless DD wants to do it for you.Much love xx
Hello darling - your secretary here.
Could you just clear up with these folk what type of plane you fly and from where ? I thought it was a Citation from LAX.
It all gets awfully confusing.And in your rant back see if you can avoid using 'lame',unless DD wants to do it for you.Much love xx
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Hollydog,
Thanks for caring so much. As you will recall, I fly as a Citation X FO - it's probably a lot faster than any piece of schit you fly - am I correct? Flying a Piper Cub around Mt. Cook are we?
Perhaps you could enlighten us with your meager background given that your contribution to this post was worthless...
Cheers
Thanks for caring so much. As you will recall, I fly as a Citation X FO - it's probably a lot faster than any piece of schit you fly - am I correct? Flying a Piper Cub around Mt. Cook are we?
Perhaps you could enlighten us with your meager background given that your contribution to this post was worthless...
Cheers