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-   -   What Cockpit ? (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/191916-what-cockpit.html)

aerobelly 20th Oct 2005 18:07

The lack of controls and the lack of instruments suggests it could be a glider of some sort.....
... but there I run out of ideas.

A'B

Saab Dastard 20th Oct 2005 19:02

aerobelly - I think that there is a fuel system, given the copper piping and the plunger, plus the levers on the port side look as if they could be throttle & mixture controls...

At least I would be worried if they were my trimmer and airbrakes on a glider!

Also it looks as if there WERE some more instruments - there's at least a couple of likely-looking holes in the "panel".

Is it in the UK?

One of Short Bros?

aerobelly 20th Oct 2005 19:40

Well I'd speculate that the piping is from the pitot, and that the plunger/pump (is that a pressure gauge next to it?) is for the u/c. Assume that the missing instuments are airspeed and attitude (could just be turn and bank), and that's about what you'd need for a non-soaring glider. Controls? Stick, rudder, release tow, drop u/c, either flaps or air-brake. That matches what we can see.

It's what we can't see that shoots my theory down.

A'B.

sycamore 20th Oct 2005 22:16

Well.I think it`s something pre-`14-18 war,judging by the air-ventilated seat, probable fuel tank pressurisation pump and two levers for air and fuel, probably rotary, and as they disappear upwards, likely to be a pusher (cables-not push-pull-rods). Which may make it a `Longhorn` or a Vickers `Gunbus`, or something of that era,,,or maybe not!!!!!!

JDK 20th Oct 2005 22:42

Thought we had a bunch of modern fliers here, and a lack of real stiknruda men. :) Take away all that glass and replace it with a bare bones plane and no-more "it's an ATR-42B with widget spong attachment." No!

Well, that's not really fair as it is a toughy. :p

Some answers containing some clues:

MrG. - neither Sanders Roe (it's too early) nor Italian.

Bus429. - Tsk, tsk. The Blackburn B-2 is famously an 'all metal' (apart from the fabric wing covering :} ) design, so as it's a wooden a/c, no. Also the B-2 is a lot later.

Mike J. - No, completely wrong, but good logic. One of your thoughts is correct, but not the location or the aircraft, so you must have the type right.

PruneRadar - see the other answers and you haven't hit the right country yet.

Aerobelly - Not a glider, unles the engine fails.

Saab Dastard's work is right, up to the point where we guess at the country and maker, both of which are wrong. :p

So aerobelly's next post is founded on a couple of incorrect premises, one it's a glider (it aint) and the second that it might have a retractable undercarriage. Aircraft of this period are famous for their non-retractable undercarriages, and lack of brakes, and this one doesn't have wheels either, because it don't need 'em. (Nor a skid.)

Sycamore's doing as well, but it's not a rotary, it is a pusher, but it's not British and it's not a pre-War example as it's in military colours. Syks other guesses are bang on.

Clues. It's in Europe, not Germany, nor France, Britain or Italy. It's a biplane, no wheels, no skid. It did have instruments (now missing). It's got rudder stripes for its country's air force of the period, one colour being black. :E

diginagain 20th Oct 2005 22:58

So, is it a seaplane, once in service with the Belgian military?

PPRuNe Radar 20th Oct 2005 23:13

'Kin hell .. that was hard.

Schreck FBA.H in the Belgique Musée Royal de l'Armée et d'Histoire Militaire. :)

Saab Dastard 20th Oct 2005 23:37

There is a gorgeous wooden flying boat of a similar (or earlier?) vintage in (I think) the RAF museum at Hendon - anyone jog my memory for the name?

PPRuNe Radar 20th Oct 2005 23:54

It might be their Supermarine Southampton. Fuselage only, no wings or engines.

Hendon

Guess we can't use this one in the competition now ;)

Southampton cockpit

Hopefully not quite as tricky as the last one !!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Flying/b29.jpg

diginagain 21st Oct 2005 00:31

From a purely ergonomic viewpoint, it must surely be British, what with having a really good layout.:ok:

JDK 21st Oct 2005 01:09

sorry

Me410, ex St Athan, now Cosford.

PPRuNe Radar 21st Oct 2005 01:14

Jahwohl JDK !!! :)

JDK 21st Oct 2005 01:14

PPruneRadar is Correk, with an able assist by diginagain.

Well done chaps. And there's a lot harder in the Museum - I coul'dve been eaven meaner!

This is wot it looks like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/JDK2/Hydro1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/JDK2/Hydro2.jpg

Goody. My go!

OK, lotsa dials for the bus driver brigade. As I\'ve fiercely cropped the pic, there\'s a clue in that it\'s a twin and dual control type.

Off we go!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...2/Mystery4.jpg

Bus429 21st Oct 2005 06:39

An HP product? Perhaps a Herald?

JDK 21st Oct 2005 08:22

Hi Bus,

Saucy!

No. :D

Vacant Towers 21st Oct 2005 08:32

I've never seen one, but how about a Mossie, and what's the U/c seen through the windsreen ???

VT

jindabyne 21st Oct 2005 08:38

Possibly a Dove??

Vacant Towers 21st Oct 2005 08:45

Jinda, if it was a Dove, wouldn't we be able to hear the belching and wheezing of the brake system???

VT

diginagain 21st Oct 2005 09:34

Pembroke/Sea Prince?

forget 21st Oct 2005 09:44

Freddy Laker's Aviation Trader's Accountant.......

................and the U/C through the window - Piston Provost.

JDK 21st Oct 2005 10:15

diginagain is correct!

The interior of Air Atlantique Classic Flight's machine (which you can go for a flight in too...)

This type has a different undercarriage setup to 'normal' - anyone?

The undercarriage through the window, not surprisingly for the grass at AA Coventry, features a Dak (for shame misidentifiers) which is cropped so, because its the example with the huge radar bulge on the underside - a unique machine and a dead givaway.

Digin's call.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...2/JDKPe001.jpg

diginagain 21st Oct 2005 10:24

Regrets........
 
.........but since I'm (supposedly) at work, resources are a little thin on the ground.

If someone else has a suitable picture, I promise not to play for at least 12 hours - I'm just going off watch!

BTW, great thread. keep it up.

dig.

JDK 21st Oct 2005 10:48

OK, here's one to be getting along with, then I too will duck out for a while!

A real aryplane, passangers, red, open cockpit, pleasure flights available...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...2/Mystery8.jpg

cringe 21st Oct 2005 12:57

Is it a Super Waco?

Saab Dastard 21st Oct 2005 17:20

MJ - I'm pretty sure the Pitts has an enclosed cockpit with a canopy.

I'm sure Cringe is right - that bevelled panel is a giveaway!

effortless 21st Oct 2005 18:35

looks like a stearman to me but for the front screen.

JDK 22nd Oct 2005 00:41

Cringe is close, but I'm looking for letters - and it's not registered as a Waco.

It's a three seater: 'passengers' is a clue.

You can have a go if you like though!

cringe 22nd Oct 2005 03:11

YMF-F5C ?

JDK 22nd Oct 2005 06:12

It's Cringe's. :)

Manufacturer: CLASSIC AIRCRAFT CORP
Model: YMF
Reg: VH-MLX

barit1 22nd Oct 2005 13:04

This is only a test. (Don't blame me for the image - it's an original brochure shot)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/barit1/p51agd.jpg

Saab Dastard 22nd Oct 2005 15:52

Looks like one of Gerry Anderson's creations :D

Stingray? ;)

barit1 22nd Oct 2005 16:13

I'll let another guess or two fall off the edge before I tell you the background view - which may be a clue.

Tim Inder 23rd Oct 2005 02:34

Looks very DeHavilland to me.

DH 95 Flamingo?

barit1 23rd Oct 2005 02:43

The background is Chicago Midway Field c.1940. Right outside the final assembly hangar.

henry crun 23rd Oct 2005 03:16

A Stinson Trimotor, or is 1940 a tad late for one of those ?

JDK 23rd Oct 2005 03:39

Cooo. I admit to being baffled, even with the clue. I'd go for US (I'd have said 1930s, so later than I thought) single engined (not enough widgets for multiple) radial, (cos they din't do anything else really)... But then the brane stop.

effortless 23rd Oct 2005 09:30

Lockheed Vega perhaps?

barit1 23rd Oct 2005 12:46

It's one of these:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...t1/thext-1.jpg

(Not too many across the pond!)

Another clue (from spotter's corner):


There was once a Bendix Trophy racer who flew halfway across the US with flaps 15 (takeoff position) - and won in spite of it!

effortless 23rd Oct 2005 15:33

Still looks like a Vega to me.

barit1 23rd Oct 2005 16:09

OK - just so you don't lose any more sleep: It's the Howard DGA-15. Derived from Benny Howard's "Mister Mulligan" (DGA-6) racer, which is the only airplane in racing history to take first place in both the Bendix (cross-country) and Thompson (closed-course) races. And did both in the same year - 1935.

Extra points if you know what DGA stands for. (You'll find it in JB)


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