De Havilland Comet C2 "Sagittarius" XK699
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I have been following this thread as I have close links with Lyneham and am very proud to have flown in '699 as an ATC cadet in 1966. We went out over Cornwall to do decompression checks which was great if you like some ear-popping stuff and steep dives...yes in a Comet 2! 
I understand the 216 Squadron Association meet annually at Lyneham and they used to open up 'Saggie' for them to view. However, with the state of the floor, this is probably no longer allowed.
I really thought that when 216 Squadron disbanded at Lyneham with their Comet 4s and reformed at Brize with TriStars, that '699 would go to Brize.
The RAF Museum at Cosford already have Comet Mk.1XB G-APAS, which I understand is going to be repainted back as XM829 in RAF marks as it flew as a DH trials aircraft. This may have some bearing on whether '699 is saved or not as RAFM may consider they already have an early Comet and don't need another! Personally I would prefer to see '699 preserved as that was an operational RAF machine whereas '829 wasn't.
I understand the 216 Squadron Association meet annually at Lyneham and they used to open up 'Saggie' for them to view. However, with the state of the floor, this is probably no longer allowed.
I really thought that when 216 Squadron disbanded at Lyneham with their Comet 4s and reformed at Brize with TriStars, that '699 would go to Brize.
The RAF Museum at Cosford already have Comet Mk.1XB G-APAS, which I understand is going to be repainted back as XM829 in RAF marks as it flew as a DH trials aircraft. This may have some bearing on whether '699 is saved or not as RAFM may consider they already have an early Comet and don't need another! Personally I would prefer to see '699 preserved as that was an operational RAF machine whereas '829 wasn't.
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Comet was nearly scrapped in 2009 !
I am sorry to report the RAF Museum inspected the Saggy autumn 2009, they reported the corrosion in the fuse was too far gone 'one of the inspectors said he could push his finger through the lower fuse skin ! please remember this aircraft has been parked over grass for nearly 25 years and I suspect she has been slowly rotting from the inside out.
When I used to work on Boeing 707's and 720's we had as part of the daily check to ensure the fuse drains were clear, every day we would get some water out and if it had been raining we would get a bucket full. If the comet had drain holes, they should have been checked monthly or they could have been painted over ! so water that leaked in via the door seals (they only seal when pressurised on the ground you can post letters through the gaps!) so what has happend is exactly what happend to the comet at duxford, the beverly at Hendon etc, the fuse has turned into a bath and slowly corroded.
The RAFM have removed everything they could from the Comet (Sept 2009) and due to the corrosion were going to scrap it on the spot. It sounds like someone has stepped in and said hang on so the descision has been put on hold, but the early indication from the RAFM is they don't want Saggy as they have Comet 1X up at Cosford and will equip it with the bits they got from saggy and make it look like a C2 (They did the same with the brit and destroyed the only 707 in the UK, so they are not hanging about)
This week a civvy firm are on site up at J1 and J2 dismantling the C130K's
I think the ONLY viable option is to move saggy to Kemble and position her next to the Brit and form a transport command preservation fleet (Possible C130K later ??), I am sure if some dialog with the herc dismatlers, RAFM and The Brit preservation team might bear fruit but at this present moment she faces the Axe
When I used to work on Boeing 707's and 720's we had as part of the daily check to ensure the fuse drains were clear, every day we would get some water out and if it had been raining we would get a bucket full. If the comet had drain holes, they should have been checked monthly or they could have been painted over ! so water that leaked in via the door seals (they only seal when pressurised on the ground you can post letters through the gaps!) so what has happend is exactly what happend to the comet at duxford, the beverly at Hendon etc, the fuse has turned into a bath and slowly corroded.
The RAFM have removed everything they could from the Comet (Sept 2009) and due to the corrosion were going to scrap it on the spot. It sounds like someone has stepped in and said hang on so the descision has been put on hold, but the early indication from the RAFM is they don't want Saggy as they have Comet 1X up at Cosford and will equip it with the bits they got from saggy and make it look like a C2 (They did the same with the brit and destroyed the only 707 in the UK, so they are not hanging about)
This week a civvy firm are on site up at J1 and J2 dismantling the C130K's
I think the ONLY viable option is to move saggy to Kemble and position her next to the Brit and form a transport command preservation fleet (Possible C130K later ??), I am sure if some dialog with the herc dismatlers, RAFM and The Brit preservation team might bear fruit but at this present moment she faces the Axe
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16 Nov 2010
(Thanks for replies)
I had an outside walk around the Comet this morning and my unqualified opinion is that it is saveable. I didn't find anywhere in the lower fuselage that I could 'put my finger through'. The jet pipe cowlings are indeed rotted through. There's plenty of evidence of intergranular corrosion. The undercarriage main components seem to be okay. Various smaller struts on the undercarriage are badly corroded and would probably need replacing or bracing.
One of the guys who went on board earlier this year tells me that the insides are in a sorry state. He felt the cabin floor was unsafe, and mistook what he thought was a carpet, that turned out to be a thick layer of mildew/moss.
But I believe she could be saved. It would be a massive cop out to scrap her, in my opinion.
(Thanks for replies)
I had an outside walk around the Comet this morning and my unqualified opinion is that it is saveable. I didn't find anywhere in the lower fuselage that I could 'put my finger through'. The jet pipe cowlings are indeed rotted through. There's plenty of evidence of intergranular corrosion. The undercarriage main components seem to be okay. Various smaller struts on the undercarriage are badly corroded and would probably need replacing or bracing.
One of the guys who went on board earlier this year tells me that the insides are in a sorry state. He felt the cabin floor was unsafe, and mistook what he thought was a carpet, that turned out to be a thick layer of mildew/moss.
But I believe she could be saved. It would be a massive cop out to scrap her, in my opinion.
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Lyneham's Comet gate guard
I thought you all might like to see a couple of slides I took of XK699:
Firstly, here she is arriving at Lyneham from storage at RAF Henlow, 16th October 1986.
....and eight months later, fully restored and installed near the gate, 20th June 1987
Firstly, here she is arriving at Lyneham from storage at RAF Henlow, 16th October 1986.
....and eight months later, fully restored and installed near the gate, 20th June 1987
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I do hope this a/c can be saved, as I think it is the last Comet 2-all the other (quite a few) Comets preserved are, not surprisingly, given the production figures, 4s, though there is the sole surviving (I think) complete Comet 1 at Cosford (G-APAS). That a/c has the replacement round windows, but there is the Comet 1 fuselage at London Colney which still has the original rectangular windows that caused all the problems back in 1952-4. There is also a Comet 4 (or at least that's what it says on it, but that's not necessarily right, tho unlikely not to be) nose at London Colney. Anyone know the id of that?
Anyway, mention of the Comet 2 takes me back nearly thirty-six years to a memorable visit to Strathallan when Sir William Roberts(on?) had his collection there. I photographed XK655 there and I've put a link to my photo below. As you'll see from my caption tho, I know it was subsequently broken up.
Links to photos by me of all a/c above:
Comet 1 at Cosford:
ScanImage11 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Comet 1 fuselage at London Colney:
667 London Colney 11-9-07 DH Comet 1 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Comet 4 nose at London Colney:
667 London Colney 11-9-07 BOAC Comet nose section 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
XK655 at Strathallan in 1976:
JetPhotos.Net Photo » XK655 (CN: 06023) United Kingdom - Royal Air Force (RAF) De Havilland DH-106 Comet R.2 by Michael Blank
And also, the Comet 4 at Everett:
651 Everett 24-9-05 Comet 4C | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The Comet 4 at Bruntingthorpe:
656-689 Bruntingthorpe 13-8-06 Comet fso1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The Comet 4 at East Fortune:
DSC_0059 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The one at Hermeskeil, Germany:
ScanImage27581 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
And here is a real rarity, the fuselage of the one and only Comet 3 at the end of its life:
Woodford air show June 1974 Comet 3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I've seen the ex-Dan Dare 4 at Wroughton, but can't put my hands on my photo, so I think I've seen all the Comets in preservation bar XK695 at Lyneham.
Finally, here's a link to a photo of another Comet, tho not quite what you're expecting:
667OldWarden100907Comet2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Anyway, mention of the Comet 2 takes me back nearly thirty-six years to a memorable visit to Strathallan when Sir William Roberts(on?) had his collection there. I photographed XK655 there and I've put a link to my photo below. As you'll see from my caption tho, I know it was subsequently broken up.
Links to photos by me of all a/c above:
Comet 1 at Cosford:
ScanImage11 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Comet 1 fuselage at London Colney:
667 London Colney 11-9-07 DH Comet 1 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Comet 4 nose at London Colney:
667 London Colney 11-9-07 BOAC Comet nose section 1024 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
XK655 at Strathallan in 1976:
JetPhotos.Net Photo » XK655 (CN: 06023) United Kingdom - Royal Air Force (RAF) De Havilland DH-106 Comet R.2 by Michael Blank
And also, the Comet 4 at Everett:
651 Everett 24-9-05 Comet 4C | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The Comet 4 at Bruntingthorpe:
656-689 Bruntingthorpe 13-8-06 Comet fso1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The Comet 4 at East Fortune:
DSC_0059 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
The one at Hermeskeil, Germany:
ScanImage27581 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
And here is a real rarity, the fuselage of the one and only Comet 3 at the end of its life:
Woodford air show June 1974 Comet 3 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
I've seen the ex-Dan Dare 4 at Wroughton, but can't put my hands on my photo, so I think I've seen all the Comets in preservation bar XK695 at Lyneham.
Finally, here's a link to a photo of another Comet, tho not quite what you're expecting:
667OldWarden100907Comet2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Comet II landing at Lyneham in 1957.
Does anyone else remember an incident that year when one 216 aircraft suffered multiple engine failures on T/O and managed to get take advantage of the fact that Lyneham sits about 100' above the surrounding terrain to pick up enough speed to stagger round the circuit effectively on one?
Great save as the Comet IV was being touted at the time and another Comet disaster would probably have been the end of that.
Does anyone else remember an incident that year when one 216 aircraft suffered multiple engine failures on T/O and managed to get take advantage of the fact that Lyneham sits about 100' above the surrounding terrain to pick up enough speed to stagger round the circuit effectively on one?
Great save as the Comet IV was being touted at the time and another Comet disaster would probably have been the end of that.
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It's two years since the last post in this thread and today I happened to read this on Wikipedia (not that that means it's reliable, from what I've heard about W): "A Comet C2 Sagittarius with serial XK699, later maintenance serial 7971M, has been on display at the gate of RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire, England since 1987.[174][175] In 2012, with the planned closure of RAF Lyneham, the aircraft was slated to be dismantled and shipped to the RAF Museum Cosford where it will be re-assembled for display."
Well, I was at Cosford a few weeks ago and it wasn't on display there, plus, if it had been dismantled and taken there, I'm sure it would have been mentioned somewhere on the net. So, does anyone know the a/c's current status please?
I've also found that there is another Comet (4) survivor, in Mexico. However, keen as I am to see historic airliners, I don't think I'll be visiting that country any time soon, from what I've heard about the current level of drug-related violence there-tho someone please correct me if I'm doing Mexicans a dis-service by saying the above; no offence intended.
Well, I was at Cosford a few weeks ago and it wasn't on display there, plus, if it had been dismantled and taken there, I'm sure it would have been mentioned somewhere on the net. So, does anyone know the a/c's current status please?
I've also found that there is another Comet (4) survivor, in Mexico. However, keen as I am to see historic airliners, I don't think I'll be visiting that country any time soon, from what I've heard about the current level of drug-related violence there-tho someone please correct me if I'm doing Mexicans a dis-service by saying the above; no offence intended.
Here's the RFQ, from last year, seeking a contractor to dismantle XK699 and reassemble it at Cosford:
Dismantlement and relocation of Gate Guardian Comet C2 XK699 - Government Tenders, Government News and Information - Government Online
No info on whether the contract has since been awarded.
Edit: PQ from April this year:
"Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has for the historic Comet aircraft which is at the entrance to the former RAF Lyneham base. [149378]
Mr Robathan: The RAF are currently examining options for the future of the De Havilland Comet C2 XK699 which is the gate guardian at the former RAF Lyneham. No decision has yet been made."
Dismantlement and relocation of Gate Guardian Comet C2 XK699 - Government Tenders, Government News and Information - Government Online
No info on whether the contract has since been awarded.
Edit: PQ from April this year:
"Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has for the historic Comet aircraft which is at the entrance to the former RAF Lyneham base. [149378]
Mr Robathan: The RAF are currently examining options for the future of the De Havilland Comet C2 XK699 which is the gate guardian at the former RAF Lyneham. No decision has yet been made."
Last edited by DaveReidUK; 5th Aug 2013 at 10:58.
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Thanks very much for that.
The dismantling and move tender looks very positive, as do the sums mentioned as to its value/cost: "Contract value: £40,000 – £93,000." That said however, I know nothing about the costs of dismantling, moving and then re-assembling any aircraft, let alone a large one like a Comet, so perhaps these figures were just too low for any contractor to be seriously interested?
From the fact that the closing date was April 2012 and that nothing has happened tho, and also given the completely non-committal reply from the Govt minister to the PQ put down on the subject in April of this year, that you quote, I surmise that there were probably no takers for the tender to move the aircraft.
We can therefore, it seems to me, just hope and await developments. I'm a propliners man myself, with no RAF background, so I prefer to put my money into propliner preservation, so, sorry, but I can't offer to form a "Save the Lyneham Comet" action group.
Also, I hope that, in spite of T-21's comment above: "The nose is about the only part worth saving ,the rest is too corroded. It has been sitting around for nearly 45 years,miracles take longer;" nevertheless such a historic aircraft, the last of its mark, can be saved.
And given the uncertainty, can the a/c be photographed in its current location, does anyone know? I was planning to go to East Midlands Aeropark on a free Saturday I've got coming up on the 24th of this month, but perhaps a more ambitious trip (I live in M/C), down to Lyneham might be in order, before it's too late.
The dismantling and move tender looks very positive, as do the sums mentioned as to its value/cost: "Contract value: £40,000 – £93,000." That said however, I know nothing about the costs of dismantling, moving and then re-assembling any aircraft, let alone a large one like a Comet, so perhaps these figures were just too low for any contractor to be seriously interested?
From the fact that the closing date was April 2012 and that nothing has happened tho, and also given the completely non-committal reply from the Govt minister to the PQ put down on the subject in April of this year, that you quote, I surmise that there were probably no takers for the tender to move the aircraft.
We can therefore, it seems to me, just hope and await developments. I'm a propliners man myself, with no RAF background, so I prefer to put my money into propliner preservation, so, sorry, but I can't offer to form a "Save the Lyneham Comet" action group.
Also, I hope that, in spite of T-21's comment above: "The nose is about the only part worth saving ,the rest is too corroded. It has been sitting around for nearly 45 years,miracles take longer;" nevertheless such a historic aircraft, the last of its mark, can be saved.
And given the uncertainty, can the a/c be photographed in its current location, does anyone know? I was planning to go to East Midlands Aeropark on a free Saturday I've got coming up on the 24th of this month, but perhaps a more ambitious trip (I live in M/C), down to Lyneham might be in order, before it's too late.
The dismantling and move tender looks very positive, as do the sums mentioned as to its value/cost: "Contract value: £40,000 – £93,000." That said however, I know nothing about the costs of dismantling, moving and then re-assembling any aircraft, let alone a large one like a Comet, so perhaps these figures were just too low for any contractor to be seriously interested?
Aaron.