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Widebody Holiday Jets

Old 20th Jun 2021, 16:29
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And disappeared according to my mate working for Dan-Air ops in Concorde House. They expected a bloom of dark smoke...
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 16:37
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
I flew Continental 747 to Newark, came back from Houston. Was it one of theirs or a People Express example that had the excessively exciting departure from 26?
Both, sort of, it was an ex-PE aircraft operating as CO after the acquisition.
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 16:57
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A cursory look through the search engines has failed to link me to the report, anyone have a steer ?
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 17:38
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
A cursory look through the search engines has failed to link me to the report, anyone have a steer ?
This one? LGW 747 February 1988
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 18:30
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That's the one Mr Liffey! Thanks

The last half of this paragraph was the bit I remembered. The holes in the cheese nearly lined up, thank goodness they didn't.

page14image428487232
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 18:43
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
You've jogged a few memories out of my brain naming all those airlines from the 70's, I could picture them just by reading the paragraphs you wrote.

Does anyone remember Continental Airlines at LGW in the 80's ? I've convinced myself that I did a round trip to Mexico City via Houston sometime in the latter part of that decade. It was on a DC-10-30 if that helps.
I remember in early 80's they operated a day flight from EWR to LGW Flt No CO18 with DC10-30 arriving LGW around 2100hrs.
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 19:55
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Originally Posted by Musket90
I remember in early 80's they operated a day flight from EWR to LGW Flt No CO18 with DC10-30 arriving LGW around 2100hrs.
On 23.08.88 I flew LGW-EWR with CO (my log records it as CO25). Was on B747-238N N17025

Worked my way down to the Southern states and flew home in September IAH-LGW on Continental DC10-30 N68060 (CO4).

All seems rather exotic now.
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 20:41
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
I flew Continental 747 to Newark, came back from Houston. Was it one of theirs or a People Express example that had the excessively exciting departure from 26?
It was a Continental flight, Gatwick to Miami, but the aircraft N605PE was still in People Express livery following the merger, which causes some confusion. At this period there were a series of changeovers of the US operator on London to Miami. People Express never operated the Miami route themselves. THey were less than half a tonne below MTOW.

Report here : 4-1989_N605PE.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)
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Old 20th Jun 2021, 21:06
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Thanks guys. I imagine that must be the closest to a major accident Gatwick has come since the Ariana 727 crash.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 03:04
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ISTR a case at Gatwick where a BCAL DC-10 nearly landed on top of a company BAC 1-11 in fog. The 1-11 rejected take off at the start of its take off roll and the DC-10 went over the top and landed on the displaced threshold of runway 26. I think there was some confusion over the radio and the DC-10 thought he had landing clearance. 1981 or 1982 I think.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 06:33
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LGW MD-83 incident

Originally Posted by treadigraph
Thanks guys. I imagine that must be the closest to a major accident Gatwick has come since the Ariana 727 crash.
I came in for a late shift at LGW summer 1992.
We looked after Airtours International who were quite new to the IT airline business and had a fleet of new MD-83's.

It had been very foggy in the morning and the badly delayed Dalaman that I saw off the night before came back in to LGW around 07.30 flying in Low-Vis ILS Cat 3 APP and the Crew selected to Autoland.
This was their 5th duty that week, with 3 night flights in a row, finishing with a long and delayed DLM.

50 feet above the ground the MD-83 was seen going towards the grass, the crew took late corrective action at 30 feet but (unaware to them) the left wing tip struck the runway.
The aircraft landed OK but ATC was advised by another 737 that they saw the MD-83's wing strike the ground.

I saw the damaged aircraft that afternoon, and I gather they were a breath away from cartwheeling over the runway (not my opinion)
Here is the report -
https://assets.publishing.service.go...JSMC_12-92.pdf

NB- it was always foggy at LGW !
Worse in the 60's and 70's when I was spotting there........

The only UK airlines to fly the MD-83 were Paramount (1987-1989), BIA (1988-1990)
and Airtours International from late 1990, but by the end of 1995 the type was discontinued.

Last edited by rog747; 21st Jun 2021 at 06:59.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 06:59
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Originally Posted by rog747
I came in for a late shift at LGW summer 1992.
We looked after Airtours International who were quite new to the IT airline business and had a fleet of new MD-83's.

It had been very foggy in the morning and the badly delayed Dalaman that I saw off the night before came back in to LGW around 07.30 flying in Low-Vis ILS Cat 3 APP and the Crew selected to Autoland.
This was their 5th duty that week, with 3 night flights in a row, finishing with a long and delayed DLM.

50 feet above the ground the MD-83 was seen going towards the grass, the crew took late corrective action at 30 feet but (unaware to them) the left wing tip struck the runway.
The aircraft landed OK but ATC was advised by another 737 that they saw the MD-83's wing strike the ground.

I saw the damaged aircraft that afternoon, and I gather they were a breath away from cartwheeling over the runway (not my opinion)
Here is the report -
https://assets.publishing.service.go...JSMC_12-92.pdf

NB- it was always foggy at LGW !
Worse in the 60's and 70's when I was spotting there........
The AAIB report says vis was OK and the CAT3 autoland was a practice but the proper Company procedures in terms of Commander being PF etc were not followed. Furthermore the Commander's insistence on the FO, who was PF for the sector, taking on some monitoring as well probably left him overloaded.

The report mentions the Commander being subsequently diagnosed with a medical condition.

There were also a significant number of defects with the aircraft's instrumentation.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 07:08
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It had been foggy - The report mentions the time at 07.27 but I think that was GMT so it came in an hour later, as we were on BST.

I know they had a long night with a departure delay out of LGW, and that they had reported on-time (crewing had not delayed them at home) 3rd night flight in a row for some of them.
I gather their APP into DLM was not very nice with a lot of TS.
R.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 07:55
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Blimey, that one passed had me by, most accident/incident reports I saw back then were in Pilot so perhaps they didn't publish a synopsis of that one.

I remember being in the spectators gallery awaiting my brother who was arriving on a Virgin 747 - they did a very late go around from 08 after a BCal 1-11 began its take off run - no idea whether it had been slow to go or had taxied on to the active in error which seems very unlikely, nor do I remember whether it abandoned its take off which does seem likely.

Saw a Pan Am 747 do the same from 28R at Heathrow some 40+ years ago, culprit this time was an Aztec. Don't ask me why the Aztec was taking off from the landing runway; what I do recall was the 747 S turning at quite low level, left off to one side of the runway, then right to avoid flying over the terminal area. I assume the first officer was flying and wanted to see where the Aztec was! Memory says he was airborne but stayed quite low. Ooops!

I see another Continental 747 had an incident with two offset approaches to 26 at Gatwick and do I recall a 737 landing on a taxiway? Possibly what is now 26R/08L but before it was so designated.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 10:22
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The 737 should have been landing on 08L but landed on the parrallel taxiway instead. I think it happened twice. 1989 I think.
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Old 21st Jun 2021, 18:16
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Originally Posted by dixi188
The 737 should have been landing on 08L but landed on the parrallel taxiway instead. I think it happened twice. 1989 I think.
The B737 was Air Malta and was on approach to 26R and landed on the parallel taxiway by mistake when the main runway 26L had just closed for maintenance and 26R was opened.

A British Island Airways 1-11 did the same a few years earlier but approaching on 08L this time. Both mistaking the green parallel taxiway centreline lights for the runway. I believe a British Airtours B737 happened to be taxying for departure on the taxiway at the time and turned off into the soft to avoid the landing 1-11. The taxiway lights were re-designed soon after the second event so they are not visible when on approach to 08L/26R.

I believe both reports are in AAIB archives.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 13:40
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I'm not sure if this one qualifies or not, but here goes ...

In 2001 I was planning a trip to the USA, but 9/11 put a stop to all that. I looked around for something to replace that trip, and realised that I wanted 'beach' and 'sun' for a week. Quite by chance I watched a TV prog about India, and specifically Goa, so I started a lot of research into a trip there. A local travel agent got me assorted brochures, and very soon I was all booked-up ... Visa acquired, and injections booked.
At that time there was only one flight a week to Goa, which left Gatwick on a Thursday evening, and you arrived in Goa at about 7.30 local time on Friday. On the appointed Thursday evening I turned up at Gatwick, and we boarded an 'Air Travel' Airbus A.330.
It was a direct/non-stop flight, but quite soon after take-off they announced that there was some kind of glitch with the entertainment system, and that they might have to restart it all several times. I watched the start of the same film 4 times. We were mid way across Europe when they announced that they might divert into Bahrain to get the entertainment system fixed.
A few hours later they made another announcement that the system was working okay, and we would continue to Goa - in fact, out to the right, that is Bahrain!

So ... widebody, tick ... holiday jet, tick.

Immigration into Goa and baggage claim was the usual shambles!

The return leg one week later left Goa at about 12.00 local time, and we flew direct back to Gatwick. We arrived at the stroke of 8pm UK time. Taxy to stand, unload pax, walk to UK immigration, collect baggage and walk to the Green Line bus stop for the trip back to Heathrow, and the bus departed at 8.20pm! Pretty good going.

Two years later I did the trip again, but for 2 weeks. It still departed on a Thursday and got back on Friday evening. This time it was a Monarch A.310, with a refuelling stop at Bahrain in both directions.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 17:12
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Originally Posted by Geezers of Nazareth
I'm not sure if this one qualifies or not, but here goes ...

In 2001 I was planning a trip to the USA, but 9/11 put a stop to all that. I looked around for something to replace that trip, and realised that I wanted 'beach' and 'sun' for a week. Quite by chance I watched a TV prog about India, and specifically Goa, so I started a lot of research into a trip there. A local travel agent got me assorted brochures, and very soon I was all booked-up ... Visa acquired, and injections booked.
At that time there was only one flight a week to Goa, which left Gatwick on a Thursday evening, and you arrived in Goa at about 7.30 local time on Friday. On the appointed Thursday evening I turned up at Gatwick, and we boarded an 'Air Travel' Airbus A.330.
It was a direct/non-stop flight, but quite soon after take-off they announced that there was some kind of glitch with the entertainment system, and that they might have to restart it all several times. I watched the start of the same film 4 times. We were mid way across Europe when they announced that they might divert into Bahrain to get the entertainment system fixed.
A few hours later they made another announcement that the system was working okay, and we would continue to Goa - in fact, out to the right, that is Bahrain!

So ... widebody, tick ... holiday jet, tick.

Immigration into Goa and baggage claim was the usual shambles!

The return leg one week later left Goa at about 12.00 local time, and we flew direct back to Gatwick. We arrived at the stroke of 8pm UK time. Taxy to stand, unload pax, walk to UK immigration, collect baggage and walk to the Green Line bus stop for the trip back to Heathrow, and the bus departed at 8.20pm! Pretty good going.

Two years later I did the trip again, but for 2 weeks. It still departed on a Thursday and got back on Friday evening. This time it was a Monarch A.310, with a refuelling stop at Bahrain in both directions.

Was it a 'My Travel' A330?
They were then about to rename themselves My Travel from Airtours International, and Premiair, and had quite new A330-200's in the fleet,
I think with the downstairs loos.
Airtours certainly flew the GOA charters, as did back then also, Air 2000, Paramount, Caledonian/JMC, Novair, Britannia, and Monarch - all seasonal.
Paramount Airways flew MD-83's on behalf of Goa specialist, Inspirations.
Flights operated split loads BRS - Gatwick - Rhodes - Sharjah - Goa !
Swedish registered, Novair had 2 newish A330-200 charter aircraft and they flew subs for UK holiday airlines, and they also were regulars to Goa.


Re Monarch Goa via BAH, it would have been an A300-600R 361 Y seats.

In 2006 they reconfigured 2 A300s to offer 50 upgraded Premium seats, in addition to 297 economy.
Monarch said that there was a high demand, passengers gaining a 34 inch seat pitch, increased seat recline with adjustable headrests and a wider configuration of 2/4/2 instead of 3/3/3. Plus a free bar service with upgraded catering offering a choice of entree and a superior wine.

We used the 4 A300 from LGW and MAN to Goa, always with a Tech stop and crew change at BAH.
We also flew them to the Maldives via BAH, Mombasa via CAI, and Orlando via Bangor.
They acted as back ups to the GND Grenada flights subbing for the A330-200, stopping for fuel at Gander.
The A330 could operate non-stop to all of the above and would take over all of the A300 long hauls.

Last edited by rog747; 26th Jun 2021 at 17:51.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 18:29
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Although not a wide body Monarch also flew the B757 from Gatwick to Trivandrum via Bahrain.

I had pleasure of flying on Airtours B767-300 to Maldives via Bahrain in early 2000's. On one occasion to Maldives the B767 was tech and they replaced it with a DC10-30 and as there were no DC10 crews in Bahrain they flew to Dubai with crew having minimum rest period before returning to Gatwick. The onward leg to Maldives was switched to an Emirates B777-200..

Monarch also operated the A330-200 to Maldives sometimes originating Manchester via Gatwick or Gatwick via Manchester.

First Choice flew the B767-300 non stop to Maldives from both Manchester and Gatwick and latterly the TUI B787 but then stopped in 2014.

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Old 26th Jun 2021, 18:43
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Not totally correct Rog regarding Mon ops.
The Goa’s were sometimes routed through Kuwait and one year via Baku.
The early years of the Maldives with the A330 saw them still operating via Bahrain. It was only after 911 when the charterer asked if the flights could go direct did this change. For Monarch this was a loss in revenue as we carried a lot of freight into the Middle East from the Maldives and India. The charterer were not happy at the cost of leaving a crew in the Maldives for a week due to the high cost of hotel rooms.

Last edited by tubby linton; 27th Jun 2021 at 11:54.
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