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Widebody Holiday Jets

Old 26th Jun 2021, 19:58
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Originally Posted by Musket90
Although not a wide body Monarch also flew the B757 from Gatwick to Trivandrum via Bahrain.

I had pleasure of flying on Airtours B767-300 to Maldives via Bahrain in early 2000's. On one occasion to Maldives the B767 was tech and they replaced it with a DC10-30 and as there were no DC10 crews in Bahrain they flew to Dubai with crew having minimum rest period before returning to Gatwick. The onward leg to Maldives was switched to an Emirates B777-200..

Monarch also operated the A330-200 to Maldives sometimes originating Manchester via Gatwick or Gatwick via Manchester.

First Choice flew the B767-300 non stop to Maldives from both Manchester and Gatwick and latterly the TUI B787 but then stopped in 2014.
Nice,
The very good days in the Maldives
were seeing LTU Tristars, MD-11 and A330,
Condor 747 and DC-10, Balair and Martinair DC-10,
Alitalia 747 and DC-10 ,Eurofly A330
Lauda 767 and 777,
SQ 747-200/300
Caledonian flew the DC-10, or used the Tristar when it was Tech.

For some reason Mondays was really busy there....No taxiway was available so aircraft had to make a 180 degree turn on the runway in order to enter the ramp in front of the little terminal.
I always saw a couple of old Maldives Airways DC-8's there rotting away in the sun, then one year I gather they had flown out!

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Old 26th Jun 2021, 20:01
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Originally Posted by tubby linton
Not totally correct Rog regarding Mon ops.
The Goas were sometimes routed through Kuwait and one year via Baku.
The early years of the Maldives with the A330 saw them still operating via Bahrain. It was only after 911 when the charterer asked if the flights could go direct did this change. For Monarch this was a loss in revenue as we carried a lot of freight into the Middle East from the Maldives and India. The charterer were not happy at the cost of leaving a crew in the Maldives for a week due to the cost.
Many thanks for that - I knew too that the 2 Gulf Wars had also caused difficulties in the operations, and as to where the tech stop was....
Kuoni and Jules Verne were the main charters IIRC from the start with Monarch to the Maldives (first ones on 757), and they added Agra and Trivandrum (757)
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 20:34
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Male airport is gradually being developed with a new terminal underway with new parking apron south of the existing which I believe is no longer used.

A new runway has also been built but is not yet ready for use due nearby buildings etc still to be removed. Once the new runway opens the existing runway is to become a taxiway which will vastly improve capacity and reduce runway delays. The latest Google Earth image is worth a look.

I think now the only non-stop flights to Maldives from UK (COVID permitting) are from LHR with BA using B777-200/300s and Sri-Lankan with A330's.
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Old 26th Jun 2021, 20:57
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Managed to fly on one of the Laker A300 (G-BIMC) in late 1981 to Palma and was allowed to stay on the flight deck for the landing. Return was on a DC10. First transatlantic trip in 1989 was on a Wardair A310.to Montreal. I do remember seeing a 747sp of Luxair at Palma once.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 06:24
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Quick flick through the brain cells gives me very few widebodies within Europe. I can only recall a B Cal Charter DC-10 in 1983 Gatwick-Faro (plus seeing up close the intact Lockheed Constellation adjacent to the terminal there, used as a bar). An end-of-season trip on Monarch, to Palma, which had been out on a 757 but returned on an A300, bringing back among others over 50 of the tour company reps for whom the year's work was finished. And I suppose I can count a ski trip about 1990 on a Swissair A310 Heathrow to Zurich.

One Wednesday, changeover day in Fuerteventura, when it was still a somewhat obscure destination, there was much of the LTU widebody fleet; Tristars and MD-11. Our Monarch 757 at the end looked quite puny in comparison.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 12:07
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Quick flick through the brain cells gives me very few widebodies within Europe. I can only recall a B Cal Charter DC-10 in 1983 Gatwick-Faro (plus seeing up close the intact Lockheed Constellation adjacent to the terminal there, used as a bar). An end-of-season trip on Monarch, to Palma, which had been out on a 757 but returned on an A300, bringing back among others over 50 of the tour company reps for whom the year's work was finished. And I suppose I can count a ski trip about 1990 on a Swissair A310 Heathrow to Zurich.

One Wednesday, changeover day in Fuerteventura, when it was still a somewhat obscure destination, there was much of the LTU widebody fleet; Tristars and MD-11. Our Monarch 757 at the end looked quite puny in comparison.
LTU certainly had the Oomph in using big jets for the German sun seekers - Their Tristars lined up at RHO, LPA, or PMI was the norm.
They started their fleet in 1973, seen along with Court Line's pair of 400 seaters.
These first ones had built in rear air stairs to enable IT flights to holiday airports which back then had seen nothing bigger than a 707 or DC-8, and had little ground handling equipment at that time suitable for such large planes. Baggage was bulk loaded - no ULD's were used, but these Tristars had built in baggage conveyors at the hold doors to enable swifter bag loading for the ramp guys.
In 1977 LTU obtained 3 of the new a/c built that PSA had NTU, these Tristars had forward air stairs, LTU made use of these at remote outstations.
They lost one of the 3 in 1991 at DUS in a Hangar Fire.
For some reason, LTU did not take the ex Court Line pair which had languished at Luton from August 1974 until they were sold to CX in late 1977.
LTU had a deal from the start with Eastern AL to take some of their L1011 fleet on sale/lease back. This arrangement continued until EAL's demise in 1991.

4 new MD-11's were obtained by LTU for winter 1991, then ordered some of the first new A330-300's for the winter season 1994 (both types were in a very high density with over 400 seats) For the Canary Islands, High Season there was the winter months for Germans and Scandinavians.

Condor, of course started the IT wide body race in 1971 with their 2 new 747's that would go to Palma or down to Colombo, either short or long haul was what they did.
Other 747's used on say Palma or Las Palmas were KLM, Sabena, Aer Lingus, and SAS/Scanair.
BOAC flew 747's for the summer peaks of 1971 and 1972 LHR to Palma.
Laker DC-10's appeared, along with Finnair and Martinair, both being early DC-10 30 operators who would use them widely on IT.s
8 BA's Tristars were fully on-stream by summer 1975 and BA would use them on popular peak holiday destinations.

The Germans and Scandinavians had been flying long haul from the early 1970's to the beaches of the Gambia, Ceylon, Thailand, Florida, and Mombasa.
LTU, Condor, plus Sterling using Caravelles and 727's, even Bavaria and Paninternational with their 1-11 500's were flying to these far away places.
African Safari Airways of Basel (was formed from Globe Air) were a very early operator to Mombasa. They first used Britannia's from 1967, then DC-8's.
ASA owned their own hotels on the Kenya coast.


Long haul charter package beach holidays for us UK Brits en-masse though was still a long way off.
However, back in 1973 Court Line commence package holiday charters with the Tristar to The Caribbean.
Court Line's own Halcyon Hotels were built on St Lucia, Antigua and the Bahamas.
Monarch then flew their 720B's to St Lucia, with a tech stop usually in the Azores, I think picking up this business after Clarkson's collapse in 1974.

Thomson Skytours flying Britannia Airways 707C's had a brief foray to selling holidays in 1971 to Montego Bay Jamaica, but this was not that successful, despite the exotic names of Runaway bay and Ocho Rios.
I don't recall any other long haul charter package holidays from the UK at that time, but if anyone does then do please comment.
There was, as we all know, plenty of summer charter traffic from the UK to the USA and Canada at that time, but I really want to know about any beach destinations.
I suppose the Gambia does count of course. Britannia 737's and BCAL 707's would fly there from very early on.

It would be the late 1980's before we would start seeing the versatile charter 757's of Monarch, Air 2000, and Air Europe go off to Mombasa, Goa, Maldives, Mexico, Caribbean, Thailand, and of course Florida.
From winter 1987 Paramount Airways flew MD-83's to Goa, with split passenger loads from BRS via Gatwick - Rhodes - Sharjah, to Goa.
Virgin Atlantic's first 747 LGW-MCO flights from summer 1988 were actually charters, flown twice a week for Virgin and Thomson Holidays sharing allocations.


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Old 27th Jun 2021, 17:12
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Originally Posted by rog747
LTU certainly had the Oomph in using big jets for the German sun seekers - Their Tristars lined up at RHO, LPA, or PMI was the norm
German operators, even more than UK ones, had their fleets split across the country from where they all ran to the same destination on the same changeover day, so the LTU widebodies would be one each from Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, Stuttgart etc, with of course a Dan-Air 727 thrown in from Berlin. Condor did the same. As the season ran down they might merge two points onto one aircraft. I believe Laker had actually got an A300 contract for Berlin as well with their aircraft which were delivered just a few months before they went under, so it never started.
.
LTU had a deal from the start with Eastern AL to take some of their L1011 fleet on sale/lease back. This arrangement continued until EAL's demise in 1991.... For the Canary Islands, High Season there was the winter months for Germans and Scandinavians..
There are many places around whose holiday peak is in the UK winter, and Eastern, focused heavily on Florida, was one whose peak passenger demand was actually December to April, hence the longstanding cross-charter arrangements of varying types. Canada has always been even more like this, hence Wardair (and others) spending the summer on transatlantic affinity charters and the winter on Florida/Caribbean/Hawaii etc.

Finland especially peaks to The Canaries in the winter. Helsinki to Las Palmas is the longest journey that can be made within Europe, about 7 hours, and operators long have needed to have long-haul aircraft for this and other Scandinavian points, going right back to the 1960s with old DC-7s. Doesn't really belong on a widebody thread but this is what was behind Spantax building up their classic Convair 990 fleet, which spent the winter at Las Palmas/Tenerife, at a time when they had the range but were at near scrap value. Their long-haul range had been well below expectations, but they were fine on this one.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 20:40
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Luxair Trek Luxavia SAA

Originally Posted by paulc
Managed to fly on one of the Laker A300 (G-BIMC) in late 1981 to Palma and was allowed to stay on the flight deck for the landing. Return was on a DC10. First transatlantic trip in 1989 was on a Wardair A310.to Montreal. I do remember seeing a 747sp of Luxair at Palma once.

Luxair's 747SP LX-LGX was a good spot at Palma - I also saw it once at Athens.
Here it is at Palma in summer 1989, with a Kar Air A300 parked behind.

There is quite a story linking both airlines here -

KAR-AIR Oy had 2 new A300's via an inherited order from parent Finnair Aircraft Finance.

One was originally built and painted for Luxair as LX-LGZ but was NTU when due for delivery 12/1984, so the new aircraft was then stored at Toulouse.
However Luxair then received just 10 days later, an A300 LX-LGP, ex SIA 9V-STH.
Luxair would fly this A300 on both scheduled routes and holiday charters, seen at Heathrow, Palma and Athens, and also flew the Trek/Luxair JNB flights from 1984.
LX-LGP would then be sold in 12/1987 to SAA as ZS-SDI Steenbok, now actually intended for Trek Airways who had leased an SAA 747SP also in association with Luxair.

The stored A300 LX-LGZ finally went to Finnair as OH-LAA in 12/1986 (along with sister OH-LAB) but both were used by Kar Air until 1990 then back to Finnair Charter, then both were delivered to Air Scandic 04/1998 and -LAA (now G-TTMC) was sub-leased to Caledonian for the summer seasons '98 & '99.
Sister A300 -LAB became G-SWJW.

Trek Airways had operated former SAA 707's sold to Luxair to operate the JNB - LUX route.
SAA used to be nicknamed "Slow Around Africa" because it was not allowed to fly over Africa during the Apartheid era.
Luxavia (not Luxair) which was reportedly 90% owned by SAA (is this true?) offered cheap flights to Europe and flying quicker up over Africa.
Trek came to an arrangement with Luxair to market Luxavia that actually sold the flights (using LG flight numbers)
Luxavia was a holiday charter company selling tickets from it's offices in London, Holland, Germany, Luxembourg and South Africa. This was a joint venture between Trek Airways Pty (South Africa) and Luxair (Luxembourg) enabling Trek Airways to avoid the repercussions of increasing and widespread anti-Apartheid boycotts.
Luxair's own timetables actually showed the weekly LUX-JNB route as their own service, with interline connections bookable on Luxair's scheduled flights, and Luxair Tours offering South African holidays in its brochure.
The 707A's would usually stop to refuel at Luanda and Rome, or Libreville and Nice, but later on the 707B flights could fly just via NBO.
The 707C could not make NBO-LUX non-stop so it had to refuel again at Cairo or Athens.
Round trip fares in 1971 LUX-JNB were cheap, at around 180-240, plus 10 for Luxair's return add-on fare for passengers wishing to join at LHR.
Flights would increase to 2 - 3 times a week in later years.

Then the big plan in 1980 was for Luxavia to lease a 747SP Jumbo from South African Airways and operate it between Luxembourg and South Africa as Luxair, again avoiding the apartheid sanctions and enabling a direct route across Africa.
One of the SAA 747SP's ZS-SPF was painted in Luxair colours in early October 1980 but this 747SP was not handed over to Luxair.
Another 747SP, ZS-SPA was soon re-painted and given a new registration: LX-LTM.
The registration -LTM was chosen after the Trek Airways Founder and Captain “Tom Meredith”
The plans were quickly stopped as the Media made a big fuss about how South African Airways tried to avoid apartheid sanctions by flying as Luxair.
This story also making big news in the British Sunday Times.
The aircraft was rolled back into the hangar, the Luxair titles were removed and the original registration ZS-SPA put back on for SAA.

From Christmas 1984 and Luxair's new A300 would now fly the LUX-JNB route. I do not know where the A300 fuel stopped.
On November 1st in 1987 Luxair leased another 747SP from South African Airways, ZS-SPB was re-painted and re-registered as LX-LGX, and it flew for Luxair/Trek/Luxavia until 1991.

Trek Airways Ltd. (Pty) and Luxavia SA were to have yet another go in 1993, and leased an SAA 747SP-44 for it's South African Tours and brought back the old Trek name,
but this was to last for less than a year.
The 747SP ZS-SPB was this time painted in the striking blue original Trek Airways colours, and had additional "Luxavia Star" titles on the forward fuselage.
In cooperation with Luxair (Societe Luxembourgeoise de Navigation Aerienne, S. A.) the international route to Europe once flown by Trek Airways Ltd. (Pty) is reopened.
Services continue apace but in early 1994 the holding company, Trek Airways, withdraws from the market after the flag carrier provides a multimillion rand payment.
Shareholders shut down Luxavia, S. A. on April 20, thereby bringing South Africa’s experiment with deregulation perilously close to failure.


Back in 1968 Trek had ordered it's own brand new 707-350C from Boeing.
However, it was swapped on the production line to South African Airways as a Boeing 707-344C ZS-SAG "Durban"
This aircraft originally ordered as a -350C by Trek Airways (to be ZS-FKT) was ceded to SAA for delivery 04/1969 after the crash of its 707-344C ZS-EUW ''Pretoria''
at WDH in April 1968. Trek instead received SAA's previous "Durban" an older 707-344A ZS-SAC (ex ZS-CKE) in part exchange 06/1969.
Fully painted for Trek it was soon repainted in Luxair's colours and registered LX-LGW.

''Pretoria'' (2) for South African Airways was 707-344C ZS-FKG Del 08/1969 to become ZS-SAH.
---
---
---

c D Grew.

----
LX-LGX at Palma summer 1989

I would love to get hold of the book about Trek Airways
written by Founder Tom Meredith titled Sky Trek - anyone here got one please ?

Sky Trek
Pioneering days of low-fare leisurely air travel between South Africa and Europe.
Author: Tom Meredith
ISBN 0-620-19356-5
9780620193566
Published 1995

Last edited by rog747; 27th Jun 2021 at 20:53.
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Old 27th Jun 2021, 23:03
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KAR-AIR Oy had 2 new A300's via an inherited order from parent Finnair Aircraft Finance.
These two aircraft were both built in 1984 but sat for more than two years before Finnair/Kar-Air took them up. Finnair owned Kar-Air, and it was never quite apparent where the dividing line lay between them.

They were oddball aircraft, being fitted with a different flight deck where the engineer sat between and just behind the pilots, some sort of trial arrangement that didn't work out. By the time they were built the 2-crew A310 was well in operation, so not clear what Airbus were trying to do. They were underused at Finnair, and in 1998 came to Air Scandic in the UK, which as the name might hint seemed to have some Finnair background support. I seem to recall the CAA didn't like the flight deck arrangement at all, and they were flown by their old Finnair crews.
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Old 2nd Sep 2023, 21:05
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Originally Posted by WHBM
These two aircraft were both built in 1984 but sat for more than two years before Finnair/Kar-Air took them up. Finnair owned Kar-Air, and it was never quite apparent where the dividing line lay between them.

They were oddball aircraft, being fitted with a different flight deck where the engineer sat between and just behind the pilots, some sort of trial arrangement that didn't work out. By the time they were built the 2-crew A310 was well in operation, so not clear what Airbus were trying to do. They were underused at Finnair, and in 1998 came to Air Scandic in the UK, which as the name might hint seemed to have some Finnair background support. I seem to recall the CAA didn't like the flight deck arrangement at all, and they were flown by their old Finnair crews.
These particular A300s might have been a kind of halfway house between the regular 3-crew A300B4 and the later 2-crew A300-600. FFCC- Forward Facing Crew Compartment - comes to mind. I think Malaysian Airline System was an early customer for this variant.

EDIT: It was Garuda, not MAS.

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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 04:23
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Originally Posted by TCU
My first charter wide body experience was by chance. 08.02.92, pitched up at LGW for my package ski-holiday and a BY flight to ZRH

Boarded a bus, heading to a remote stand, but no BY 737 in sight. Bus stopped by the stairs of G-BBAF, resplendent in its Caledonian colours and thus I enjoyed a unique experience of a relatively lightly loaded L1011 charter flight. Flight home was back to BY with G-AVRN providing the service

Five years later managed to ride her sisters BBAH and BBAI, LGW-DLM-LGW.

Those G-BBA....L1011's did sterling work on the bucket and spade and snow plough runs after their mainline BA days were over.

A shout for Monarch's A300-600's, A330's and of course their sole DC-10, part of which is preserved at MAN
In 1985, I flew to Ibiza and back on Tristar G-BBAE when it was part of British Airtours' fleet.
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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 09:01
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AirOps/ECU Air ran a Tristar -385 in the mid 90's. I was unfortunate enough to travel on it to Malaga from LGW in '94.

They'd started to tear out the over head bins but had just left the frames in place. It was the worst interior I've ever seen - made Nigerian Airways, Bouraq and Aeroflot internal look like SQ First Class
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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
AirOps/ECU Air ran a Tristar -385 in the mid 90's. I was unfortunate enough to travel on it to Malaga from LGW in '94.

They'd started to tear out the over head bins but had just left the frames in place. It was the worst interior I've ever seen - made Nigerian Airways, Bouraq and Aeroflot internal look like SQ First Class
Its probably just as well that social media hadn't really got going in the mid '90s!
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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 16:33
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
Its probably just as well that social media hadn't really got going in the mid '90s!
they only lasted a few years IIRC - they really were grim
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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 20:45
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I remember Sept 73 trying to go to Ibiza on Court Tristar for a couple of days with my flatmate we both worked for Court Line. Flight was full and Capt taking his wife on jumpseat. Only 1 jumpseat available which they said I could take.
On Tristar normally 12 Cabin crew but this flight only had 11 ,it was decided he could travel as the " galley slave" where we would try and put a male downstairs with the bar boxes. They would help the Cabin crew to get the heavy boxes into the lift up to the main cabin.
So we departed with 4 on flight deck 400 +5 infants and 12 Cabin crew. Those were the days. Also went to Cfu on the Tristar which seem to dwarf the airport.
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Old 3rd Sep 2023, 22:16
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
they only lasted a few years IIRC - they really were grim
I recall there was almost a procession of TriStar operators through thd late '80s and '90s picking up the dregs of flying during the summer season, mostly from MAN and LGW.

In the 2020s that business has been taken by Baltic and Maltese operators using 738s and A320/A321 equipment.
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Old 4th Sep 2023, 11:05
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Originally Posted by rog747

Condor, of course started the IT wide body race in 1971 with their 2 new 747's that would go to Palma or down to Colombo
Curiously, I'm in Majorca at the moment. 52 years on, the only holiday flight widebody visible at Palma on arrival was, notably, a Condor A330-900.
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Old 5th Sep 2023, 18:34
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we went on a my fly dc10 for my sons first skiing trip , supposed to go to salsberg but got turned back to manchester as a fault with pilots seat, or so we were told . on the final approach into manchester a very loud 4 year old shouted out , dad i can see the problem the engines fell of and theirs fire every where . the passengers in the centre went very quiet for a bit . ended up a very long trip, landed in munich and all the tour coaches were in salsberg and a 4 year old only having coke to drink he was bouncing of the celing for days
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Old 6th Sep 2023, 17:22
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Ah yes - my dear son at the age of 8 was sitting behind the cockpit in a KingAir arrival in downtown Suva and suddenly proclaimed in a loud voice "we're going to land short Dad" - he repeated this several times and it did, indeed, look likely. After a murderous look from the Captain the throttles were advanced and we landed about 10m down the tarmac..................
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