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Heathrow before the Europa terminal and Queens building

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Heathrow before the Europa terminal and Queens building

Old 15th Mar 2021, 22:19
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I thought landing on 05R were stopped by early 1981, because of the starting of the building of Terminal 4, with any 05R landings being far too close to the works and site boundary of the new T4..?
I started on the T4 site in April '81 and there were no 05R landings in my time on site there between then and 1984 when I left.
Use of 05R continued for a while longer after 1981. I had just the one landing on 05R which was 9th December 1983 on board BA315 inbound from Paris CDG, operated by Tristar-1 G-BBAH. IIRC it was a very windy night and the total flight time for the flight that I recorded was one hour twenty-seven minutes as we held for some time due to the weather conditions and the use of runway 05R. It was a pleasant surprise to me when I realised it was a 05R approach as, at that time, I lived between Staines and Laleham and a very rare opportunity to fly directly over the area at low level. Sadly, it was dark so not the view it might have been dodging amongst the clouds on a daytime flight. Certainly by this time use of 05 was pretty unusual but if the weather conditions were "right" it was still in use at this time and I believe for a while longer.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 13:53
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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When I moved to Viscounts at London in 1960 the staff carpark for the Queens Building was a green field next door - which subsequently became the site of Terminal 1
O5 L may have been shorter than the others but I remember landing a Comet on it mid-60s. No problem with a strong north easterly
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 14:14
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by scotbill View Post
When I moved to Viscounts at London in 1960 the staff carpark for the Queens Building was a green field next door - which subsequently became the site of Terminal 1
O5 L may have been shorter than the others but I remember landing a Comet on it mid-60s. No problem with a strong north easterly
In the 60s, BEA supplemented the Vanguards between LHR and EDI, with its then 6000' runway (shorter than LHR 05L) and frequent crosswinds, substituting Comets on some services to compete with BUA and its 1-11s.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 15:13
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Actually the Trident 3b was more challenging than either the Comet or Vanguard on EDI 31.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 15:52
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't the short runway at EDI ,one of the reasons the Trident 3 had its 'extra engine . In fact as I now recall my landing on 05 was a T3 with some of the internal decor having the word Shuttle on it
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 16:01
  #106 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SimonPaddo View Post
Anyone else willing to admit to buying JP World Airline Fleets from VHF supplies for spotting?
I certainly bought at least one copy when I was about 13 or 14 - Civil Aircraft Markings was a bit limited in what was included.

Great thread, please keep the memories flowing!
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 17:06
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post
Wasn't the short runway at EDI, one of the reasons the Trident 3 had its 'extra engine.
I'm not so sure that EDI performance in particular was a design driver, but there's no doubt it helped.

Of course the real reason was that, with the curvature of the Earth being less up north, that couldn't be relied upon to get the aircraft airborne.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 17:11
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Gravity's stronger up there too, and you're further from the helpful pull of the moon .......
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 17:35
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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My first flight I can just remember was early '60's and would be 7or. 8. Edinburgh to London in the Vanguard. Looking at the Aircraft I thought it was a space rocket and in flight it sounded like one....
Now although I cannot remember the incident I was taken to the cockpit for the ctuise and possibly not strapped for the landing and there is / was a photo long lost of the event.😐
Later experienced a couple of Trident flights to EDI and I remember landing and stopping just before the fence and was pushed back to turn to the terminal. ..
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 19:41
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Witnessed quite a few Vanguard, Trident and 1-11 (BUA) 'arrivals' onto RW 13 at EDI while on the UAS and AEF. This was in the late 60s before Edinburgh had radar; the routing was 'OE' and 'TRH' NDBs, procedure turn followed by ILS 13. I don't think there was an instrument approach onto RW 31 and so with a strong westerly, there was a tailwind and a crosswind. Great spectator sport!!
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 20:16
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Yes, I think Heathrow House (still there) had worked through a few tenants, including BA, as I recall a continuing problem with telephone crossed lines with a BA back office elsewhere (in passing an aspect of telecoms that has gone completely away). The company took over the whole building some time in the late 1970s, and moved out 10 years later. The building had a substantial "refacing" of the glazed front A4 elevation, including much more rigorous double glazing. Phone number 01-759-6522 I recall (which appears thus to have been circulating uselessly in my brain these last 35 years ...).
Worked in BOAC purchasing department for a while 1970, we moved from TBA into temporary accommodation at Heathrow House before the final move to the offices top of TBC. Now that provided fantastic views for the approach for 28R. Including a birds eye view of the 707 engine fire whilst performing engine runs.
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Old 16th Mar 2021, 22:21
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Edinburgh : I seem to have been everywhere that gets discussed, and I was at university there early-mid 1970s, from the first discussions about the "new" runway (with its approach directly over our professor's house in Cramond, so we heard it all) through to its opening and the new terminal. For some reason three of the four major airports in Scotland in that era, Prestwick, Aberdeen and Edinburgh, all had their main runways at right angles to the prevailing wind. Only Glasgow was the "right way round". There was extensive coverage that because of the short runway BA had to continue using Vanguards, not jets, but when BUA started One-Eleven ops to Gatwick there were Comets, and then Tridents, slipped in at competitive times, and by the time the new runway was complete it was an all-Trident operation anyway.

Bits of the old terminal, on the opposite side of the airport, were still there when I last looked some years ago, a set which would have given Heathrow Northside a good run in the ramshackle stakes. It faced the ramp and didn't even have double glazing - Vanguards manoeuvring directly in front of the windows made any communication impossible. As these doing so were audible from up at Edinburgh Castle, 6 miles away, it must have been ear splitting for the staff.

Well remember when BUA became B Cal they introduced a 10pm departure "Moonjet" to Gatwick. I think the fare was 6.60 each way. In more recent times I went up to Edinburgh when a 146 was operating some of the Scot Airways flights from London City, otherwise a Dornier turboprop run. Left the terminal one evening, maybe 15 years ago, turned an unusual way, and actually did a runway 13 takeoff to the south-east. Just like a generation beforehand.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 07:57
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Well remember when BUA became B Cal they introduced a 10pm departure "Moonjet" to Gatwick. I think the fare was 6.60 each way.
It was indeed 6.60. I used it just the once, while I was waiting for my BEA concessions to kick in, from which point onwards it cost me 2.20 return to go back and visit my folks, who lived in Cramond and were strong supporters of the new runway.

With admirable foresight, they had built a ground-floor extension in the early 1970s which included a skylight.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 09:18
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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When I was at Glasow doing my tower training, we had a Vanguard come in on a 3 engine ferry with about a 60 deg crosswind.
All looked 'normal' until at about 100ft, I think he must have dropped full flap and the aircraft's attitude became VERY steep nose down just before flaring.
Prior to this, my instructor had asked me what 'standby' I would put on and I replied 'Local Standby' but he said 'no, Full Emergency; you'll see why'.
And I did!!
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 09:30
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
It was indeed 6.60. I used it just the once, while I was waiting for my BEA concessions to kick in, from which point onwards it cost me 2.20 return to go back and visit my folks, who lived in Cramond and were strong supporters of the new runway.
Explains why in mid 1972, BEA introduced a '13.20p return' offer from Glasgow (maybe Edinburgh too?); you had to travel out and return weekends only a week apart to take advantage so I booked to go to Heathrow one saturday, hiring a car at Heathrow to visit my parents in Chesham, returning the following sunday.
No concessions for ATCOs those days; we were still Civil Servants and a concession, in the eyes of our bosses at the DoTI, could have been interpreted as being a 'bribe' to get preferential treatment for whichever airline we travelled on. (At least that was the 'official' reason)
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 10:01
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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A bit more on 1970s Moonjet experience here : Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion. - Page 92 - FlyerTalk Forums
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 11:30
  #117 (permalink)  
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chevvron
... could have been interpreted as being a 'bribe' to get preferential treatment for whichever airline we travelled on.
Pal of mine who works a tower in the UK says that the only priority is if one of their colleagues is on board waiting for a departure. They try to make sure their holidays get off to a good start! They later report that the flight deck said: "Well, ladies and gentlemen, I'm glad to say that our slot has been brought forward. Cabin Crew please take your seats."

[allegedly]
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 13:04
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mcdhu View Post
Witnessed quite a few Vanguard, Trident and 1-11 (BUA) 'arrivals' onto RW 13 at EDI while on the UAS and AEF. This was in the late 60s before Edinburgh had radar; the routing was 'OE' and 'TRH' NDBs, procedure turn followed by ILS 13. I don't think there was an instrument approach onto RW 31 and so with a strong westerly, there was a tailwind and a crosswind. Great spectator sport!!
mcdhu
Before runway 25 (as was) was constructed at EDI, Vanguards were sometimes used for LHR-EDI services when the main instrument runway (13/31) was outside crosswind limits for the Trident 3.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 13:08
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
When I was at Glasow doing my tower training, we had a Vanguard come in on a 3 engine ferry with about a 60 deg crosswind.
All looked 'normal' until at about 100ft, I think he must have dropped full flap and the aircraft's attitude became VERY steep nose down just before flaring.
Prior to this, my instructor had asked me what 'standby' I would put on and I replied 'Local Standby' but he said 'no, Full Emergency; you'll see why'.
And I did!!
On the Vanguard (IIRC) three-engine approaches were flown throughout with normal landing (full) flap. The behaviour witnessed by chevvron was perhaps caused by wind shear.
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Old 17th Mar 2021, 13:31
  #120 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga View Post
Feels a bit like I'm peddling books here... my apologies... but I too can recommend Sky Talk vol.1, see here: https://amzn.to/38ghgv4, also available from the publisher here: Sky Talk | Sunrise Publishing
My copy is arriving later today .

I was also reminded of another excellent and relevant book when moving a pile of recently read tomes last night:

<b><i>Flight From the Croft </i>by Bill Innes</b> Flight From the Croft by Bill Innes

This is an account of his flying career which encompasses most of the types operated by BEA/BA, plus more besides. My copy has now been recycled - to the "waiting to be read" pile, and hopefully by the time I've read it again, my bookshelves will be back up to provide a more fitting home than the top of a chest of drawers...

Recommended.
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