Vanguard
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Vanguard
"For years the only model available of the Vanguard was the 1/144th scale Airfix kit, but recently Aeroclassics have released a superb little diecast model of a BEA Vanguard. Have a look here:
Aeroclassics BEA Vanguard - 400 Scale Hangar
These are available from some specialist retailers like Aviation Retail Direct at Hillingdon or on E.Bay."
Actually, Western Models did a very nice 1:200 diecast model of G-APER in BEA's classic red squares livery-I've got it, tho the Aeroclassics model looks like it equals it. Was also very sad to find, when I Googled Western Models, that they've apparently gone bust. Their models were very expensive, but very good.
Aeroclassics BEA Vanguard - 400 Scale Hangar
These are available from some specialist retailers like Aviation Retail Direct at Hillingdon or on E.Bay."
Actually, Western Models did a very nice 1:200 diecast model of G-APER in BEA's classic red squares livery-I've got it, tho the Aeroclassics model looks like it equals it. Was also very sad to find, when I Googled Western Models, that they've apparently gone bust. Their models were very expensive, but very good.
Last edited by Proplinerman; 4th Apr 2010 at 08:33. Reason: Omitted to put quotation marks round start of post
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Vanguard G-APEP
I've just found this film on You Tube, shot at Glasgow Renfrew in 1965 and PEP features in it!
YouTube - Glasgow Airport at Renfrew, 1965 Vintage
YouTube - Glasgow Airport at Renfrew, 1965 Vintage
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Vanguard
Here are links to a couple of Vanguard photos I took at Manchester in 1972. Invicta and a BEA Merchantman.
BEA Vanguard G-APEM, Manchester, 24-6-72i on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Invicta Vanguard G-AXOY at Manchester 3-9-72 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
BEA Vanguard G-APEM, Manchester, 24-6-72i on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Invicta Vanguard G-AXOY at Manchester 3-9-72 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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Good though the Vanguard was from the economics point of view it should probably never have been built. With just 20 sold to BEA and 23 to Air Canada it lost Vickers/BAC a packet. BEA were offered a short range version of the Britannia 300 ( designated 250) which would have been similar in performance and taken Britannia production over the 100 mark but were emotionally wedded to Vickers after the success of the Viscount. BEA also miscalculated the jet effect on short haul customers and rejected the Caravelle. They then opted for the barely economic 4 engined 100+ seater Comet 4B which they introduced in 1960 as a stopgap before the arrival of the scaled down 88 seat Trident 1s whose economics were again marginal due to the downsizing-at BEA's behest,-from the original capacity of around 112. Boeing, who had,thanks to de Havilland's naive sharing of the original Trident plans as part of a discussion about possible license production in the USA, knew from this gratuitous sharing of information that around 112/120 seats was the right formula, so walked away from DH and produced the 727-100 which sealed the fate of the Trident. In short, the Vanguard was just one of a series of BEA planning disasters which also impacted severely on the longer term fate of British civil airliner production.They almost got back on track by suppporting the BAC 211, but that was ditched by Heath to burnish Britain's credentials with the fledgling EU.
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Vanguard
Magpienja: yes, I much preferred the BEA red squares livery, but it pre-dated my time as a planespotter and aircraft photographer, but I do remember it from the 1960s.
Skylion: very accurate analysis of BEA's disastrous impact on the British aviation industry post war-with the exception of the Viscount.
EvansB: great photos, thanks for posting.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Vanguard however, it will always remain my favourite classic turboprop airliner.
Skylion: very accurate analysis of BEA's disastrous impact on the British aviation industry post war-with the exception of the Viscount.
EvansB: great photos, thanks for posting.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Vanguard however, it will always remain my favourite classic turboprop airliner.
Last edited by Proplinerman; 4th Apr 2010 at 18:57. Reason: Browser problem cut off final part of my message
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RR was given Treasury Launch Aid for Tyne, but Vickers' Board chose not to ask for subsidy in 1955 when launching Viscount Major against a BEAC intent for 20. This was the sole substantial risk investment by the UK Aero industry: all other types were cushioned by Govt. Dubble-bubble was to give Combi-style overnight freight for capital-free incremental revenue and TCA cited that as decisive in its selection. So, it's sad to say it "should never have been built", but clearly so, as Vickers is reported to have lost £16.7Mn. on it. Why?
Early-1955. Viscount has transformed air transport; turbojets are seen as too dear for medium-haul, though France is doing Caravelle; turbofans are merely bench exercises. Douglas has declined to do a turboprop DC-6 (why not?); Lockheed similarly chooses not to do a turboprop Connie (why not?), but in 1954 to initiate L.188 on the engine funded for C-130A. By late-1957 USN for MR has chosen it...and so have solid Viscount operators KLM, Ansett, TAA, Cathay Pacific. Vickers-Armstrongs was slow to certify the type, entering service in TCA Feb.1961/BEAC 1 March,1961 after Caravelle {SAS 26/4/59}, Comet 4B {BEAC,1 April,60), L.188 {12 January,1959} and Ilyushin Il.18 {20 April,1959}. Maybe Vickers Board knew loss of the Oz business was terminal and chiselled their spend.
Early-1955. Viscount has transformed air transport; turbojets are seen as too dear for medium-haul, though France is doing Caravelle; turbofans are merely bench exercises. Douglas has declined to do a turboprop DC-6 (why not?); Lockheed similarly chooses not to do a turboprop Connie (why not?), but in 1954 to initiate L.188 on the engine funded for C-130A. By late-1957 USN for MR has chosen it...and so have solid Viscount operators KLM, Ansett, TAA, Cathay Pacific. Vickers-Armstrongs was slow to certify the type, entering service in TCA Feb.1961/BEAC 1 March,1961 after Caravelle {SAS 26/4/59}, Comet 4B {BEAC,1 April,60), L.188 {12 January,1959} and Ilyushin Il.18 {20 April,1959}. Maybe Vickers Board knew loss of the Oz business was terminal and chiselled their spend.
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The cockpit area reminds me of an Armstrong Whitworth(?) Ensign
I too have a soft spot for Vanguards, some of my first flights were on 'EP & 'EN. I lived as a boy near the "GM" ndb (BHX) and the BEA Vanguards flew up the 328 radial from Garston to GM, then Lichfield. I can hear those Tynes now!
One of these days I'll scan my photos and post them.
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Vanguard
"One of these days I'll scan my photos and post them."
Please do!
Also, please can someone tell me how I reproduce a quote in the box that some of you use? I'm just copying and pasting, then putting quote marks around the sentence.
On the post creation page there are tool icons right above the window where you type in your text. The 3rd one from the right is the quote tool. you can either highlight the text you pasted in and click on the tool or click on the tool and past your text in between the ][
Please do!
Also, please can someone tell me how I reproduce a quote in the box that some of you use? I'm just copying and pasting, then putting quote marks around the sentence.
On the post creation page there are tool icons right above the window where you type in your text. The 3rd one from the right is the quote tool. you can either highlight the text you pasted in and click on the tool or click on the tool and past your text in between the ][
Quote from Proplinerman (April09/1840z):
"...please can someone tell me how I reproduce a quote in the box that some of you use?"
I wouldn't bother: our way is just as quick, and probably more versatile!
"...please can someone tell me how I reproduce a quote in the box that some of you use?"
I wouldn't bother: our way is just as quick, and probably more versatile!
Last edited by Chris Scott; 10th Apr 2010 at 09:12. Reason: Typo.
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I have got some video of 'Superb' practising short field landings at EMA and then her final departure for Weybridge somewhere.
Plus lots and lots of photographs taken at the airport over the years.
But then I would have...
Plus lots and lots of photographs taken at the airport over the years.
But then I would have...
Boeing, who had,thanks to de Havilland's naive sharing of the original Trident plans as part of a discussion about possible license production in the USA, knew from this gratuitous sharing of information that around 112/120 seats was the right formula, so walked away from DH and produced the 727-100 which sealed the fate of the Trident.
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perpignan
saskatoon9999.
as a school boy back in the late 70s i stayed in the south of france (beziers) on holiday, we went for a day trip over to spain and passed the airport at perpignan, at the time i think EAS were based there, must have been at least 6 or 7 vangaurds in EAS coulours parked outside their hangar,not sure if they had been retired and waiting to scraped,must have been 1977/78.
as a school boy back in the late 70s i stayed in the south of france (beziers) on holiday, we went for a day trip over to spain and passed the airport at perpignan, at the time i think EAS were based there, must have been at least 6 or 7 vangaurds in EAS coulours parked outside their hangar,not sure if they had been retired and waiting to scraped,must have been 1977/78.
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In 1966 I was checked out as an F/O and fell in love with that beautiful airplane.
It was a time of growth in the airline and promotions were in full force. F/O's who were in the promotion stream were given the Captain course then had to accrue about 200 hours line flying in the left seat. The promotional airplane was the Viscount but the training department had a back log and was working hard to keep up. To speed things up Vanguard F/O's, slated for promotion, were given a left seat course on that airplane and were to accrue about 150 hours before returning to the Viscount for the final amount of line flying. For someone who loved flying that Vanguard, that had to be one of the ultimate pleasures of a flying career.
Thanks evansb for those nice pictures of the TCA Vanguard.
Cheers, G
It was a time of growth in the airline and promotions were in full force. F/O's who were in the promotion stream were given the Captain course then had to accrue about 200 hours line flying in the left seat. The promotional airplane was the Viscount but the training department had a back log and was working hard to keep up. To speed things up Vanguard F/O's, slated for promotion, were given a left seat course on that airplane and were to accrue about 150 hours before returning to the Viscount for the final amount of line flying. For someone who loved flying that Vanguard, that had to be one of the ultimate pleasures of a flying career.
Thanks evansb for those nice pictures of the TCA Vanguard.
Cheers, G
I was lead to believe that the Vanguard was one of those proposed as the airframe for the Shackleton replacement. Although I regarded the handling characteristics of the Nimrod a bit marginal in some respects for the maritime role, the accounts I have read on previous posts on this thread lead me to think that the Vanguard might have been even less desirable. However I should be interested if anyone can confirm that the Vanguard was in fact considered and if so what the reasons were for its losing out to the other contenders for the contract.
YS
YS