TAA and the DC-9
Station8,
I believe they operated the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. A twin boomer that well and truely falls into the "a face that only a mother could love" category.
Back in the day I played tennis with the BNE airport tennis club at Hendra and we'd hear these guys departing for their night freight run to wherever, when they passed overhead it sounded a lot like two F27's in close formation with no two engines (of the four) in sync.
I believe they operated the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. A twin boomer that well and truely falls into the "a face that only a mother could love" category.
Back in the day I played tennis with the BNE airport tennis club at Hendra and we'd hear these guys departing for their night freight run to wherever, when they passed overhead it sounded a lot like two F27's in close formation with no two engines (of the four) in sync.
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TAA farewell function 1983
Some of these MEL based TAA names have appeared in this thread previously, all were/ or are great people. Probably those still alive would be mid- to- late 80's now. Most learnt to fly at the tail end of the war. One thing that impressed a young F/O, in addition to their superb airmanship was their humility. They recognised their luck in joining the RAAF rather than the Army or Navy and surviving. No small feat Then more good fortune in the late 40's to be selected to join a great airline. Of course the pay wasn't great, the equipment- wartime leftovers (DC-3/ DC-4) and the 'so called' prestige job twenty years off.
Can we compare the DC9 with the DC3? Certainly a DC3 flight included elements of excitement. Passengers then had respect and admiration for pilots. They had to climb up the steep cabin; the drama of the engine start (woe betide if the hapless F/O flooded an engine causing backfire); the magneto check into wind at rwy threshold; the noise when the engines were advanced for T/O the tail raise at 40 knots. At 82 knots lift-off was a non event, there was no perceivable rotation or body angle change and the 3 just wafted into the air. Unless you had an engine failure, in which case matters became very exciting.
Imagine then the wonder for these men when jets arrived in the 60's. Even for the a sprog F/O the majesty of the take-off took one's breath away. The noiseless advance of the thrust; V1 around 120 kts; 'rotate' and slowly pull back on the yoke,'one cat dog, two cat dog, three cat dog-- 16 cat dog; as you rotated to 16degrees and V2.
Whoa- this body angle would stall the DC3. The jet age had arrived- these airplanes catapaulted into the sky. Everyone on board- passengers, cabin and technical crew experienced a metamorphosis. Within a minute the jet was approaching 320 knots speed and climbing at 2000'/minute. Unbelievable.
Here was a revolution in aviation. MEL- SYD in 70 minutes. Passengers were served a three course meal on fine bone china, choice of wines, liquers. No waiting for bags after arrival. Perhaps someone can point out where aviation has improved in the 40 years since. I can't see it.
So here's to the memory of the pilots in the pic, I honour their contribution to Australian aviation. Brisbane based pilots had their separate function I believe. Two additional names must be acknowledged. Lawrie Glenn, a most gentle and unassuming pilot, and George Sheppard, training captain. It was George who introduced the trainee to the Adelaide airport bottleshop and Hensche 'Hill of Grace'- $2.00 with crew discount. If I had the sense to lay down the hundreds of bottles instead of drinking them, I'd be rich today.
This pic appears with acknowledgement from TAA's monthly staff newsletter- 'Network', October 1983 edition. I believe that the photographer would have been Ian Russell. Well done Ian and thank you.
Thread Starter
Thanks for that info TG, must have been a pleasure sitting behind that particular FO on a trip to HNL.
Somewhere over the Pacific,
TG, "Oh dear Captain the FO keeps on banging his head agianst the fire axe, what should we do"
Captain, "If it keeps him quiet and amused, let him continue"
TG, " coffee captain?"
The Ipec pilots would have found the DC-9 a step up in the performance from the Argosy.
Somewhere over the Pacific,
TG, "Oh dear Captain the FO keeps on banging his head agianst the fire axe, what should we do"
Captain, "If it keeps him quiet and amused, let him continue"
TG, " coffee captain?"
The Ipec pilots would have found the DC-9 a step up in the performance from the Argosy.
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Well it actually went more like: F/O... so what were you blokes thinking A? so look at you now, A? Jeesus you were a pack of morons, A? Well we will never let the bastards beat us, A? Me: nod, nod, nod, (nothing drives people more nuts than have you agree with them) then peace for a while, then: F/O.. so you'r back down the bottom of the woodpile,A? I mean you blokes don't think you can muscle in on us, A? well its your own fault you know, me.... nod, nod, nod, 
Skipper.... why don't you shut the 
up. peace at last. And talking about nodding, where do you get the job standing beside any pollie as they prattle on and just nod. Watch them at night on tele there is always someone nodding, I would like to apply.
Skipper.... why don't you shut the up. peace at last. And talking about nodding, where do you get the job standing beside any pollie as they prattle on and just nod. Watch them at night on tele there is always someone nodding, I would like to apply.
Thread Starter
Chuckle thanks for that TG.
Like when they interview Rudd, why does every moron, halfwit, minder stand in the background and nod their flaming head? Could somebody please explain why?
Now back when you were on the DC-9 what how did TAA roster the crews, so many flying days and so many reserve days? Much back of the clock flying?
Like when they interview Rudd, why does every moron, halfwit, minder stand in the background and nod their flaming head? Could somebody please explain why?
Now back when you were on the DC-9 what how did TAA roster the crews, so many flying days and so many reserve days? Much back of the clock flying?
Stationair8
Pure flying blocks and pure reserve blocks.
Blocking was 70-80 hours with average 75 (74?) over all flying blocks. (min guaranteed pay was 74 hours)
Reserve blocks I think were at a ratio of 1 : 8 flying blocks.
Virtually no back of the clock.
Blocks built by pilot reps, and subsequently vetted and approved by the company.
Days off and grey days normally between 9 and 15 per month, but could be up to about 18.
Bids for Captains closed and awarded before bids for F/O's closed. If you had sufficient seniority you could bid for a Capt, or to avoid a Capt or for a particular port, flight, or days off.
Was a good system.
Maui
Pure flying blocks and pure reserve blocks.
Blocking was 70-80 hours with average 75 (74?) over all flying blocks. (min guaranteed pay was 74 hours)
Reserve blocks I think were at a ratio of 1 : 8 flying blocks.
Virtually no back of the clock.
Blocks built by pilot reps, and subsequently vetted and approved by the company.
Days off and grey days normally between 9 and 15 per month, but could be up to about 18.
Bids for Captains closed and awarded before bids for F/O's closed. If you had sufficient seniority you could bid for a Capt, or to avoid a Capt or for a particular port, flight, or days off.
Was a good system.
Maui
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And the poor younger guys on reserve,would wait weeks for a tiny morsel of flying to come his way. Often with a Captain who also was on permanent reserve & who had a sim ride coming up,so he wanted to do the leg. If only one sector,the FO,read checklists,did the paperwork,then deadheaded home having not even touched the controls to wait weeks for another morsel.
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"Son of King" Barry
Indeed, but I did object to him smoking his little cigars in the taxi at 5 in the morning after a HBA overnight!
Can we talk about the MD-95 or is that too much of a thread drift. It is a direct descendant of the Diesel and the for-runner of the 717.
Great photos of the 717 Thanks.
Can we talk about the MD-95 or is that too much of a thread drift. It is a direct descendant of the Diesel and the for-runner of the 717.
Great photos of the 717
Thanks.
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B737 - Swinus Aviatus
Speedbrakes were properly attached to jet aeroplanes by Fokker as rear clam-shell doors. I flew F28, F70, F100, B737(3/4/7/8series) in that order.
Engines were properly attached to the rear fuselage on Fokkers and speedbrakes were not part of the wing.
B737 has underslung engines and all drag devices on the wing (see Turkish Airlines B737-800 AMS accident). A Fokker 70/100 would have survived that failed go-around attempt; to prevent the accident, swinus aviatus required full nose-down elevator/horizontal stabiliser input by flight crew during a go-around from low level at low speed. Alpha-floor protection?
Full nose down elevator necessary while applying full thrust to Go Around?
Swinus Aviatus - the B737
Engines were properly attached to the rear fuselage on Fokkers and speedbrakes were not part of the wing.
B737 has underslung engines and all drag devices on the wing (see Turkish Airlines B737-800 AMS accident). A Fokker 70/100 would have survived that failed go-around attempt; to prevent the accident, swinus aviatus required full nose-down elevator/horizontal stabiliser input by flight crew during a go-around from low level at low speed. Alpha-floor protection?
Full nose down elevator necessary while applying full thrust to Go Around?
Swinus Aviatus - the B737
Aye Ess
We were all junior guys on reserve at various times, and we all had to endure that.
But in reality it normally didn't come to that as their were several senior guys who would bid reserve (Seagull), there was all the displaced/rec leave/training/ and substitution flying in open time.
Admittedly there were a few occasions when with a downturn flying was pretty scarce, but one only had to talk to the SRC to get a few sectors if it was necessary.
It was a good system if you knew how to use it.
Maui
We were all junior guys on reserve at various times, and we all had to endure that.
But in reality it normally didn't come to that as their were several senior guys who would bid reserve (Seagull), there was all the displaced/rec leave/training/ and substitution flying in open time.
Admittedly there were a few occasions when with a downturn flying was pretty scarce, but one only had to talk to the SRC to get a few sectors if it was necessary.
It was a good system if you knew how to use it.
Maui
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Bad men
Chimbu,
Spot on, an Ian Russell photo of a fine group of men which took a lot of organising due to the copious intake of spiritous liquors, and Darkie Duffield being obdurant.
And I recall sitting opposite Peter Chapman and his son at dinner that night when they were assailed by an F/O, who shall remain nameless but his intials are Julian Hipwell, who glass in hand, interposed himself between father and son, turned to Chapman Senior and said "Why didn't you tell us your son has hollow legs too, you bastard" and staggered away.
When I queried Captain Chapman about his response to this verbal assault all he said was "But true".
Very fond memories indeed.
Spot on, an Ian Russell photo of a fine group of men which took a lot of organising due to the copious intake of spiritous liquors, and Darkie Duffield being obdurant.
And I recall sitting opposite Peter Chapman and his son at dinner that night when they were assailed by an F/O, who shall remain nameless but his intials are Julian Hipwell, who glass in hand, interposed himself between father and son, turned to Chapman Senior and said "Why didn't you tell us your son has hollow legs too, you bastard" and staggered away.
When I queried Captain Chapman about his response to this verbal assault all he said was "But true".
Very fond memories indeed.
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Thanks for the picture Chimbu, last time I saw Jack Curtis, he was hanging out of a DC3, at some airshow, I saw Tom Fuller hanging off a shopping trolley last Xmas, (not that I can talk, so was I) and "Darkie" Darfield was I think the first aboriginal pilot and probably the only one that TAA employed, (he called himself that, now you would probably cringe) a nice bloke he was too. I seem to remember that the TAA bid system, came on line after Buck Brooksbank and Dick Holt went to the USA to study theirs, and thought it suitable, it worked well, though I often worked on a grey day, never minded though, kept the family eating. Another bit about TAA that not all know, the pilots and Flight Engineers who lived around the Mt. Macedon area started their own school. I was one of them. The kids had to travel 20k either way to a local public school, so under the leadership of Buck Brooksbank, we convinced the local authorities we needed a school closer to the mountain, we decided to make it a christian education but not belonging to any particular religion, so in a christian way, we stole, lied, threatened, and carjoled any money we could lay our hands on and Buck somehow managed to get into the then Premiers office (I think it was Henry Bolte) and weedled a considerable sum out of him. ( Buck could sell a fridge to a Eskimo) We bought what was then Clyde Girls School, but was still short of cash, so Buck went and saw Dame Elizabeth Murdoch and wallah, more money (she was a old girl from Clyde) we did all the work ourselves painting, carpentry, mowing, etc and when we went off to work other crew arrived and kept the job going, when we finally had the school ready, we invited the local Bishop to do the job, but I realised we had nothing for them to sit on, so I shot down to the local tip, found two chairs, the wife threw a cover over them, and his Lordship had no idea what he was sitting on! We started with 25 students (all had to bring their own chairs) and today it is the magnificent Braemar College with over 800 students, (it is worth googling just to see the beautiful buildings) and there are four houses each named after the pilots and flight engineers who really got the show on the road, and Dame Elizabeth Murdoch is still the patron, aged 100 years. So how many airlines can boast that their flight crews could achieve such a incredable result, and you know at the time I think we were all to stuffed to realise what we had done in the name of our kids education, but I look back on it now, and realise what a amazing bunch of blokes they were.
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Keith Duffield
Darkie, an indiginous Australian?
Not sure about that. Certainly a character. As a habituee of St. Kilda's Musician's Club in the '70s I knocked around with (amongst others) Jack Varney, the banjoist. From him I learnt that Keith Duffield and he served in the wartime RAAF. After the war 'The Prince of Darkness' stayed on, joining the VIP squadron. While Jack was touring postwar Europe with Graham Bell's All Stars (to critical acclaim) Darkie flew Chiffley around the Commonwealth in a DC3. He must have joined TAA soon after that. Jack died last year aged 90, so I guess he had a full and happy life doing what he loved best.
Talking about George Sheppard and other fondly remembered Training Captains. They imparted much wisdom, both on and off the field of play. Simple things. Like making a modified sign of the Cross with the right hand, touching sequentially the forehead, crutch, breast and left wrist. This movement performed before leaving the flight deck was accompanied by the ritual chant “spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch” to ensure all were present or safely tucked away.
Failure to observe said ritual would sometimes result in startled passengers as the 'deshabille' pilot exited the washroom, displaying the un-adorned male form. To avoid embarassment, this check is best performed also, when exiting flight decks, hotel rooms, ladies chambers etc.
Chimbu
Not sure about that. Certainly a character. As a habituee of St. Kilda's Musician's Club in the '70s I knocked around with (amongst others) Jack Varney, the banjoist. From him I learnt that Keith Duffield and he served in the wartime RAAF. After the war 'The Prince of Darkness' stayed on, joining the VIP squadron. While Jack was touring postwar Europe with Graham Bell's All Stars (to critical acclaim) Darkie flew Chiffley around the Commonwealth in a DC3. He must have joined TAA soon after that. Jack died last year aged 90, so I guess he had a full and happy life doing what he loved best.
Talking about George Sheppard and other fondly remembered Training Captains. They imparted much wisdom, both on and off the field of play. Simple things. Like making a modified sign of the Cross with the right hand, touching sequentially the forehead, crutch, breast and left wrist. This movement performed before leaving the flight deck was accompanied by the ritual chant “spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch” to ensure all were present or safely tucked away.
Failure to observe said ritual would sometimes result in startled passengers as the 'deshabille' pilot exited the washroom, displaying the un-adorned male form. To avoid embarassment, this check is best performed also, when exiting flight decks, hotel rooms, ladies chambers etc.
Chimbu
Last edited by chimbu; 14th Mar 2009 at 02:03.
Thanks for the picture Chimbu, last time I saw Jack Curtis . . .
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Darkie, one of the Great Story Tellers of the World
I flew with His Royal Darkness on a 3 day trip once and he took the whole trip to tell me a story (as was his wont)
Apparently he was flying missions out of Wewak (cv) late in WW2 and the Yanks had a Task force about to invade Tarawa. The Marines had left their "scramble nets" behind so couldnt get off their ships to the landing craft.
So Darkie was told to fly the nets in his bomber and drop them on the deck of the carrier that was attached to the fleet. As I remember the story had many twists and turns and back and forward tracking and we were on descent into MEL and he hadnt finished yet.
So when we were taxiing in I had to prompt him "Great Keith, but what happened to the bloody nets? Did you get them on the deck?"
"Better than that mate" he rumbled " Right down the ******* Funnel"
The nets went down the funnel and temporarily disabled the ship.
Of course I cant verify the accuracy of the story but hey when did that matter to the Great Story Tellers of the World.
Apparently he was flying missions out of Wewak (cv) late in WW2 and the Yanks had a Task force about to invade Tarawa. The Marines had left their "scramble nets" behind so couldnt get off their ships to the landing craft.
So Darkie was told to fly the nets in his bomber and drop them on the deck of the carrier that was attached to the fleet. As I remember the story had many twists and turns and back and forward tracking and we were on descent into MEL and he hadnt finished yet.
So when we were taxiing in I had to prompt him "Great Keith, but what happened to the bloody nets? Did you get them on the deck?"
"Better than that mate" he rumbled " Right down the ******* Funnel"
The nets went down the funnel and temporarily disabled the ship.
Of course I cant verify the accuracy of the story but hey when did that matter to the Great Story Tellers of the World.
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Speaking of characters :
Who else had fun with Moose?
Also realllly enjoyed flying with a certain Capt. Adxxson who was always keen to dish out sectors after my 30 days on reserve.