TAA and the DC-9
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Wiley, I could not agree with you more, I sent mine "paddock bashing" from the time they were 19 years old, no cadetships for them, even if daddy was a captain at the time, and it nearly caused a divorce in the family, as the wife could not see why I simply would not cough up the money, especially in the case of the daughter (who she was quite sure would not survive the wilds of DRW) and looking at all the young pilots drinking at the institute, I must say I used to get a bit worried myself, but soon found out they kept a eye out for her, and she now lists many of them as best mates. I am not going to argue with the cadet system it has produced many fine pilots, but to me you cannot build a safe brick wall unless it has a strong foundation, it is like sending a new doctor just out of uni to do some brain surgery, ALL pilots have to have the sh%t scared out of them at least a couple of times, before they have PAX sitting behind them, so they get to know themselves and what they are capable of, how they react to sudden problems, and if they feel it is the career for them, and nothing replaces paddock bashing to get the answers. Its hell for their parents, especially those who are in the know, and know what can happen, when you put a kid in a aircraft on their own, you just have to have faith they can handle it. ( I can well remember my daughter doing her first night flight from DRW to Katherine, leaving at midnight, and there was no sleep in our house until she rang) my wife of course had her going down in croc infested waters, buffalo bulls chasing her, (if she survived) and all the rest, and I was the worst father in the world, because she should have a nice safe QF cadetship, so for those of you out there who can see the offspring are going to follow you into flying, be prepared for some sleepless nights, (and plenty of requests for money) and also prepare yourself for the way they live, (mainly like ferals, and known to wash dishes and clothes in the shower along with them selves all at the same time, but also realise it is the best time of their lives, but until they get into a Airline they will not believe you.
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Indeed,they were low. The 737 needed the extra height to accomodate the engines. The DC9 with the engines mounted high at the rear had a lower fuselage,which allowed the bag snatchers to load & unload from a barrow. Refuellers needed no special climbing structure. Also with the engines at the rear,DC9s were known as the 'whispering T-Jets'. (Please note; the word 'whispering' in this context could be substituted with 'ear splitting,crackling')
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Sixties, when I first set eyes on the 9 after my New Guinea stint, I was gobsmacked, she was taxiing out at SYD and I well remember standing there just watching her, and like the rest of you became besotted, as she screamed down 1/6 and then nothing else mattered, I became obsessed with getting a endorsement on her, along with every other TAA pilot, especially the younger blokes, the older blokes were a bit wary, but once they mastered her (or so they thought, did anyone ever master her?) we were like kids in a lolly shop, couldn't get enough, and as you mentioned coming off DC3's, twotters, etc it was like joining the space shuttle. Most of us of course went on to fly other types, but this forum shows what a amazing aircraft it was, and how it affected us all. I suppose you could say it was really the first time most of us could strap a jet pocket rocket to our ar#e, sort of like getting your first Holden Monaro, that you spent hours "souping" up, if ever there was a big boys toy it was the 9. I remember as a F/O to I think John Blomburg, we were doing the usual "hold at Bindook" and John said "who gives a sh%t, we are flying a 9) and that about sums it up.
One of those 1968 31's or 32's must have been ex AN or TN?
I've just done a quick scan through the Serial numbers and none seem to be AN or TN, but they are very close.
Come on......................we gotta buy one
I've just done a quick scan through the Serial numbers and none seem to be AN or TN, but they are very close.
Come on......................we gotta buy one
Last edited by ACMS; 5th Mar 2009 at 14:25.
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Imagine a DC9 on the airshow circuit. It could be painted on one side red & white Ansett,the other blue & white TAA. There would still be stacks of endorsed pilots around to donate time to fly it. Ex hosties( aka flight attendants) would have a ball reliving the fun old days. I'll bet retired engineers would LOVE to work on one again. One pilot could wear Ansett uniform & one TAA. Rego could be VH-DCN.Joyflights,corporate charter. Kind of like a modern version of nostalgic DC3 flights.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Ah! dream on....
You haven't come across CASA. They'd never allow it.
Some in there have had such bliss, blocking a DC-3 for the past two and a half years.
Maaate a DC-9 project to harrrassss. They’d cream their jeans when that came to ‘em.
Now if we did it in Godzone it’d be a goer, and wouldn’t it be fun!
The nostalgic DC-3 flights...
There's only one left. If ya' think a nostalgic ride would be fun, ya' better get yourself off to Essendon and go with Shortstop before one person connected to CASA gets his wish... "They should be behind glass in a museum".
You haven't come across CASA. They'd never allow it.
Some in there have had such bliss, blocking a DC-3 for the past two and a half years.
Maaate a DC-9 project to harrrassss. They’d cream their jeans when that came to ‘em.
Now if we did it in Godzone it’d be a goer, and wouldn’t it be fun!
The nostalgic DC-3 flights...
There's only one left. If ya' think a nostalgic ride would be fun, ya' better get yourself off to Essendon and go with Shortstop before one person connected to CASA gets his wish... "They should be behind glass in a museum".
Last edited by sixtiesrelic; 5th Mar 2009 at 20:53.
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Treesa, I don't know if the Ansett blokes got that fear of the nine like the TAA blokes in the sixties.
I was round the TAA area as a kid and heard that the lack of propwash over the wings, specially after coming off the Electra was a bit scary.
Huey Yorston didn’t want to go near ‘em.
Poor Old Merv Thomas had a bad trot (difference in character to his trainer I believe) so he bombed out. Many became sure she was too much for them.
Lyn Fletcher bombarded his training Captain with a magnanimous present when he got through.
His trainer said, “It’s just another bloody aeroplane” and trained accordingly.
Many years later I had all the same doubts and reckoned my endorser and training Captains were the ant’s pants for somehow getting’ a clod with ten big toes on his hands through.
I was round the TAA area as a kid and heard that the lack of propwash over the wings, specially after coming off the Electra was a bit scary.
Huey Yorston didn’t want to go near ‘em.
Poor Old Merv Thomas had a bad trot (difference in character to his trainer I believe) so he bombed out. Many became sure she was too much for them.
Lyn Fletcher bombarded his training Captain with a magnanimous present when he got through.
His trainer said, “It’s just another bloody aeroplane” and trained accordingly.
Many years later I had all the same doubts and reckoned my endorser and training Captains were the ant’s pants for somehow getting’ a clod with ten big toes on his hands through.
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Doggies
From what I remember, the Viscount was the stepping stone to the Electra initially, and then onto the 727.
My "Uncle" by association Ken "Boomer" Collins was very very senior with TN and stepped up that route as many others did. By the time the DC9 appeared, TJ Alpha through Foxtrot were up and running and and the Viscounts had gone and a good thing too with the single spar/gearbox fire danger in the 700 series and the step was then F27 to DC9.
My memory may be faded there, but please correct me if that is not the case.
Boomer Collins was an amazing airman, having flown P51 Mustangs in WWII diving on V1 doodlebugs to get to their speed, positioning a wing under their stub wing and banking away to turn the thing over so it would crash in the channel and not reach its target.
He was also the first Pilot to reverse pitch on all Allisons in an Electra in the cruise, as TAA wanted the results in their ops manual. Lockheed were also interested greatly in the results.
With all due respects to the incumbents in this room who I am sure are wonderful pilots, we will never see the like of the gentlemen who first took the helm of the DC6B, Viscount, Electra, F27 and DC9 not to mention 727 again.
They were the guys with the "Right Stuff".
God bless them all, and isn't it wonderful that there are so many of you out there, who flew with and learned your trade form the old Bomber Command blokes.
Never ever forget.
They deserve that, and one day an old trick heard but nearly forgotten may turn potential disaster into unlikelly triumph.
I am sure they ride your wing on every sector,
Best all
EWL
From what I remember, the Viscount was the stepping stone to the Electra initially, and then onto the 727.
My "Uncle" by association Ken "Boomer" Collins was very very senior with TN and stepped up that route as many others did. By the time the DC9 appeared, TJ Alpha through Foxtrot were up and running and and the Viscounts had gone and a good thing too with the single spar/gearbox fire danger in the 700 series and the step was then F27 to DC9.
My memory may be faded there, but please correct me if that is not the case.
Boomer Collins was an amazing airman, having flown P51 Mustangs in WWII diving on V1 doodlebugs to get to their speed, positioning a wing under their stub wing and banking away to turn the thing over so it would crash in the channel and not reach its target.
He was also the first Pilot to reverse pitch on all Allisons in an Electra in the cruise, as TAA wanted the results in their ops manual. Lockheed were also interested greatly in the results.
With all due respects to the incumbents in this room who I am sure are wonderful pilots, we will never see the like of the gentlemen who first took the helm of the DC6B, Viscount, Electra, F27 and DC9 not to mention 727 again.
They were the guys with the "Right Stuff".
God bless them all, and isn't it wonderful that there are so many of you out there, who flew with and learned your trade form the old Bomber Command blokes.
Never ever forget.
They deserve that, and one day an old trick heard but nearly forgotten may turn potential disaster into unlikelly triumph.
I am sure they ride your wing on every sector,
Best all
EWL
Dog One. At AN when a new type was introduced the initial crews were sourced from numerous types. When the DC9 was introduced the initial school of 20 pilots consisted of mainly Viscount and DC6B pilots plus a small number of L188 pilots and at least one B727 pilot from memory.
(This was the era when AN accepted 19 year olds with a bare CPL, < 200 hours of SE time and no Instrument Rating).
(This was the era when AN accepted 19 year olds with a bare CPL, < 200 hours of SE time and no Instrument Rating).
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Was merely a toddler back then EWL......
So tell more of this storey.....what was the deal about and the results!
J
He was also the first Pilot to reverse pitch on all Allisons in an Electra in the cruise, as TAA wanted the results in their ops manual. Lockheed were also interested greatly in the results.
J
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Sixties, yes, the older blokes say from 50 on, as you know, had been happily trundling around the skies for 30 odd years, in piston, and later turboprop aircraft, and then suddenly confronted with the screaming little beast, which basically arrived before it left (if you get my gist) challanged all that they knew and were comfortable with, especially that old but true saying, belted into your head from your flying instructor "always be ten minutes ahead of your aircraft" well to be 10 minutes ahead of the 9 was like running a marathon with your shoe laces tied together, and with the same result, trying to keep up with the little bugger, was like being a one legged tap dancer, and spare a thought for the poor bugger doing a OOL/BNE, my first one was like a night in the madhouse, bloody pencils behind my ears, check lists of mammoth preportions (or seemed to be) I was going like a one armed paper hangar, with the skipper saying "your behind her lad, you have to do better than that" I remember getting off thinking "thats it you have stuffed it", my shirt stuck to me with sweat, and any ideas that I had of myself of being a capable pilot left in tatters. Well, a night at the Breccy Creek hotel and a few beers with the same skipper, who was patient and a excellent check and training bloke (ex navy fighter sqdn) and two sectors the next day BNE/OOL OOL/SYD saw me start to catch on and pick up speed, and I was then in my late thirties or so, so for a bloke of 50 odd, jesuuuus, it would be very difficult, unless you had a lot of sim time, and some of them simply could not handle it, (and didn't want to) and happily trundled back to their fockers etc.