TAA and the DC-9
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Jaba
The L188 apparntly dropped like a stone.
Ken regained control in a timely judicious manner, and the deed was done. I have no further info on the event other than it was conidered a "must do" by the heirachy at TN.
Ken can unfortunately not add to this as he dropped dead 3 months out of a full medical playing Golf with Captain East who initially thought he was fooling around when he face planted lining up a putt. He had departed before he hit the green.
It would be so magic if he was still here and contribute, but his and many other legends live on beyond our grasp.
Best regards
EWL
The L188 apparntly dropped like a stone.
Ken regained control in a timely judicious manner, and the deed was done. I have no further info on the event other than it was conidered a "must do" by the heirachy at TN.
Ken can unfortunately not add to this as he dropped dead 3 months out of a full medical playing Golf with Captain East who initially thought he was fooling around when he face planted lining up a putt. He had departed before he hit the green.
It would be so magic if he was still here and contribute, but his and many other legends live on beyond our grasp.
Best regards
EWL
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Teresa reminds Sherm of how the -9 had one flaw....it destroyed the concept of the liesurely meal for a long time. On a MEL-SYD sector, if everything went well (and while answering the radio, making position reports, running ground speed checks etc) you had about 5 minutes to eat. For many years later even when taking Mrs Sherm to the Florentino, it was difficult while delicately slicing the chateubriand not to be thinking "Gee, Top of Descent coming up soon, better get the ATIS, call the company, set up the pressurization, get out the approach plates, calculate the exact TOD". Gobble gobble gobble. Does rather take the sting out of a romantic evening. Fortunately Mrs Sherm was (and remains) forgiving.
And in the simulator, back in the days of the "lollypop" yellow cabin outflow valve control.....you'd just know, approaching TOD, that you'd get a Left AC bus failure with AC X-tie lockout and at that time the pressurization didn't auto X-tie it's AC source. So you were straight into the AC failure checklist (remember that laminated folder we had?) while managing that absolute mongrel of an outflow valve trying to avoid blood loss from the ears, and managing all other aspects of the descent. Fun?
As for Ken Collins...a very young Sherm , his one gold stripe as yet unused was driven by his dad (who'd flown with Ken) down to AFAP HQ at Albert Road in 1970, where with great solemnity Ken and one other (maybe Max Laurie) very very senior B727 Captains and AFAP trustees accepted the young Sherm's application to join the AFAP. That was followed by a celebratory drink in the president's office.
That was in the days when the President of the AFAP could get the PM on the phone....where DCA would always involve the VP-Technical in anything technical or safety, and where even the Senior Regional Captain at the induction day reminded young pilots of their obligations to support the union and add to it.
We have lost Collins and his peers...(though not their spirit as EWL reminds us)....and we have lost much else that they built. The "me first" attitdue to unions and careers was not what they were on about.
But Sherm digresses.....yesterday was given an old "Aircraft" magazine, 1968, with that great ad showing Reg "Ike" Eisenhauer...(sigh)....was shown in uniform walking away from the 727 simulator and its travails. Reg showed me the DC-9 for the first time......it was a remains the coolest machine built and to see the dream of commanding one come true was a very great event in Sherm's life. The beloved MD-80 which kept Sherm safe for years in very unlovely worlds and kept Sherm's family in baked beans was simply an enhanced -9. They sure got that design right.
And in the simulator, back in the days of the "lollypop" yellow cabin outflow valve control.....you'd just know, approaching TOD, that you'd get a Left AC bus failure with AC X-tie lockout and at that time the pressurization didn't auto X-tie it's AC source. So you were straight into the AC failure checklist (remember that laminated folder we had?) while managing that absolute mongrel of an outflow valve trying to avoid blood loss from the ears, and managing all other aspects of the descent. Fun?
As for Ken Collins...a very young Sherm , his one gold stripe as yet unused was driven by his dad (who'd flown with Ken) down to AFAP HQ at Albert Road in 1970, where with great solemnity Ken and one other (maybe Max Laurie) very very senior B727 Captains and AFAP trustees accepted the young Sherm's application to join the AFAP. That was followed by a celebratory drink in the president's office.
That was in the days when the President of the AFAP could get the PM on the phone....where DCA would always involve the VP-Technical in anything technical or safety, and where even the Senior Regional Captain at the induction day reminded young pilots of their obligations to support the union and add to it.
We have lost Collins and his peers...(though not their spirit as EWL reminds us)....and we have lost much else that they built. The "me first" attitdue to unions and careers was not what they were on about.
But Sherm digresses.....yesterday was given an old "Aircraft" magazine, 1968, with that great ad showing Reg "Ike" Eisenhauer...(sigh)....was shown in uniform walking away from the 727 simulator and its travails. Reg showed me the DC-9 for the first time......it was a remains the coolest machine built and to see the dream of commanding one come true was a very great event in Sherm's life. The beloved MD-80 which kept Sherm safe for years in very unlovely worlds and kept Sherm's family in baked beans was simply an enhanced -9. They sure got that design right.
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Actually I cant remember much about my DC3-DC9 training; it was conducted my Merv Oswald who latter died in a car crash in the USA. But I do remember he spend an inordinate amount of time down the back chatting up the girls while I struggled with the beast on my own.
I remember Art Hoffman going into crewing and telling them not to roster me SYD-CBRs until I had more experience! I was a bit worried at that; I though I was doing a great job! But later on in life when I was a skipper, Art told me what it looked like from his side ........ I was embarrassed even at that distance in time.
Putting up with J(D)P and his idiosyncrasies, and a very few others who were to be avoided at all costs. I remember one particular Skipper who people avoided like the plague; I copped him one night and was abused, shouted at and generally made to feel like s**t. After 4 legs we ended up in the Pub and he said "You wanna drink, boy?" I politely refused and went to lay down and consider what I had done to deserve this treatment. (Luxury, I hear you say!)
Half an hour later there was a knock on my door and it was he. He said "I was a bit rough on on you today" he held up a bottle of whiskey and two glasses ...... I invited him in ...... we chatted ...... came to an understanding
..... had far too much to drink.
When we climbed into the cockpit the next day he was no different; but at least I drank his whiskey. So Slats, old son, you did teach me something after all ....... that there was a need for CRM that came about 20 years later. And yes you could fly the c**p outa that Diesel ..... so God bless you too, you old Bastard
I remember Art Hoffman going into crewing and telling them not to roster me SYD-CBRs until I had more experience! I was a bit worried at that; I though I was doing a great job! But later on in life when I was a skipper, Art told me what it looked like from his side ........ I was embarrassed even at that distance in time.
Putting up with J(D)P and his idiosyncrasies, and a very few others who were to be avoided at all costs. I remember one particular Skipper who people avoided like the plague; I copped him one night and was abused, shouted at and generally made to feel like s**t. After 4 legs we ended up in the Pub and he said "You wanna drink, boy?" I politely refused and went to lay down and consider what I had done to deserve this treatment. (Luxury, I hear you say!)
Half an hour later there was a knock on my door and it was he. He said "I was a bit rough on on you today" he held up a bottle of whiskey and two glasses ...... I invited him in ...... we chatted ...... came to an understanding
..... had far too much to drink.
When we climbed into the cockpit the next day he was no different; but at least I drank his whiskey. So Slats, old son, you did teach me something after all ....... that there was a need for CRM that came about 20 years later. And yes you could fly the c**p outa that Diesel ..... so God bless you too, you old Bastard
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Sherm, where did to fly the MD 80? Where I am at the moment the Saudia MD95 EFDs are coming and going and that always gets my pulse racing although they are a bit longer that the -9-30 and therefore dont look quite as good.
I had forgotten the speed eating issue; I suffered from that for years afterwards and even now, in my dotage, it is only severe indigestion that stops me bolting my food down.
After reading all these pages I tried a high speed arrival in my A320 last night but its just not the same is it?
Remember it is not a high speed approach unless you are not sure whether you are going to make it or not until the very last moment
I had forgotten the speed eating issue; I suffered from that for years afterwards and even now, in my dotage, it is only severe indigestion that stops me bolting my food down.
After reading all these pages I tried a high speed arrival in my A320 last night but its just not the same is it?
Remember it is not a high speed approach unless you are not sure whether you are going to make it or not until the very last moment
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Sherm
It is so great to hear that Ken Collins and his ilk are remembered by name. Ken was and will always be my hero.
Such airmen should have a hall of fame, from TN AN and QF, and even EW and Bushies.
They built the infrastructure that made the DC9 727 F27 and even the Electra and Viscount legends in this country.
It wasn't the aeroplane, it was the gentlemen and later ladies that flew the pants off them and at times took them to places their manufacturers never imagined.
I would give all I have for another ride MEL ADL PER on TJA which then continues ADL ASP DRW and then TBG ADL PER with Ken Collins, Wayne Rawlings and Moss Darby as FE.
Just being with those gentlemen on the flight deck gave me as an 18 year old a real insight into teamwork and professionalism.
The Deisel is only a wonderful aeroplane because of the people who flew her to and beyond her design limits.
Best all
EWL
It is so great to hear that Ken Collins and his ilk are remembered by name. Ken was and will always be my hero.
Such airmen should have a hall of fame, from TN AN and QF, and even EW and Bushies.
They built the infrastructure that made the DC9 727 F27 and even the Electra and Viscount legends in this country.
It wasn't the aeroplane, it was the gentlemen and later ladies that flew the pants off them and at times took them to places their manufacturers never imagined.
I would give all I have for another ride MEL ADL PER on TJA which then continues ADL ASP DRW and then TBG ADL PER with Ken Collins, Wayne Rawlings and Moss Darby as FE.
Just being with those gentlemen on the flight deck gave me as an 18 year old a real insight into teamwork and professionalism.
The Deisel is only a wonderful aeroplane because of the people who flew her to and beyond her design limits.
Best all
EWL
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My memories of the era were more about my cousin Narelle Smiley (AN Trolley Dolley) getting me a trip to the pointy end from Sydney to Bris. 
As a 7-9 year old that was the best treat you could get! Got the bug then.......
As a 7-9 year old that was the best treat you could get! Got the bug then.......
Indeed this is a great thread!
Couldn't find any cockpit videos on the DC9 on YouTube, but here's one of a 727 landing at Melbourne .. not sure whether this is AN or TN's 727 ..
YouTube - Boeing 727 cockpit landing at Melbourne
Couldn't find any cockpit videos on the DC9 on YouTube, but here's one of a 727 landing at Melbourne .. not sure whether this is AN or TN's 727 ..
YouTube - Boeing 727 cockpit landing at Melbourne
Last edited by smiling monkey; 7th Mar 2009 at 11:54.
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Re the speed eating, (for which I still get into trouble for to this day from She Who Mustt Be Obeyed), from my post #50 on page 3:
You knew you'd mastered the beast when both pilots managed to eat their breakfast - separately - on the same sector, with a 35 departure from CB and a straight in aproach (R/W 07) in to SY. (I only ever managed this once, and remember the captain's name to this day, and I have to admit, it involved scoffing my meal down at a very ungentlemanly rate! The captain handed the hostie his tray at about 5,000' on finals for 07 at Sydney.)
smiling monkey - I think the posted video is definately an Ansett machine because i think the boys are wearing the old 'blue' shirts, and AFAIK the throttles with the extra wide number 1 and 3 were only on the LRs which only AN had.
Willing to be proved wrong though!
Willing to be proved wrong though!
'Puff' I think you are correct about the 727 video, it looks like an 'LR'. To the right of the radar the panel is blank and to the left you can just see the edge of the VLF Omega. RMX and RMN were both straight 200's and did some Pacific flying, NZ and lease to Poly etc. We had a problem with the Omega it would drop off in very heavy rain, ie tropical downpours etc. Something to do with the 'H' Field Antenna, can't remember now. The 'Department of Changing Names' thought this would not do for 'Ocean Flying' and made Ansett add a second Omega to the right of the radar. You know of course, what happened next, they would both fail in heavy rain! Kept our minders happy though, thats the main thing.
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Excellent puff
Thanks for that. It was wonderful to see Whiskey Bravo strutting her stuff again. Whiskey Bravo seemed to have an affinity for being on "firsts".
First on HBA replacing F27 services, first for EW into DPO on the SYD nonstop, and first back in after the '89 business. We were always pleased to see her.
That ad campaign was mid-late '80s. Rather an effective one too.
Best was the roll-out of Whiskey Alpha from an inteligently lit CO2 fog filled hangar.
I did have a little sniff though.
Best all
EWL
Thanks for that. It was wonderful to see Whiskey Bravo strutting her stuff again. Whiskey Bravo seemed to have an affinity for being on "firsts".
First on HBA replacing F27 services, first for EW into DPO on the SYD nonstop, and first back in after the '89 business. We were always pleased to see her.
That ad campaign was mid-late '80s. Rather an effective one too.
Best was the roll-out of Whiskey Alpha from an inteligently lit CO2 fog filled hangar.
I did have a little sniff though.
Best all
EWL
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James the 4th, Slats was the ol bastard who knocked my headset off because the DC3 donks were out of sync, Ok it was midnight, he was asleep (or so I thought) I was doing the usual checks, but as a young lad I was looking forward to landing in BNE after grinding from MEL with a load of stinking eels, and thinking what possibility of meeting a woman with no morals what so ever, and for my relapse got a smack in the head, and probably deserved it, imagine smacking the F/O in the head now, Slater and Gordon, Tea and Bickies, Councillers, Law Courts all come to mind how things have changed
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Ah, the DC9 one of the sexiest, female, bitchy, beautiful, Aircraft ever built
I never flew the -9 but was on the 727 as FO. I remember having a ball and racing those -9 guys into Brizzy from MEL (the -9 inbound from SYD). And I used to always grease the 3-holer into ASP at 44C with bug+10!
I pity the present-day Airboos kids who will never know what flying a REAL aeroplane was like. Unfortunatley Im stuck on the damn A320 where the wheel is reinvented every time I fl.. fl... operate the damn thing. Navigation by pure raw data and Direct Law scares the sh!t out of the kids in the sim.
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Don't really want to rain on your parade guys, but having learnt to fly on the DH82, followed by an endorsement on the DHC1 and then the C150, C172, C185, Auster, Pa22, Pa24, Pa28, C210, C182, B33 and B35 and then being fortunate enough to get a job with an airline that got me onto the DC3, CV440, F27, DC9, B737/2/3/4/500, MD80, BAE146 and finally the A320 and then lapsing happily into retirement, having enjoyed the whole ball game and every aircraft I was luck enough to fly, I gotta tell you...
I really do wonder about you lot with all this nostalgia nonsense!...
The past is finished, enjoy the memories but get on with the future!
I really do wonder about you lot with all this nostalgia nonsense!...
The past is finished, enjoy the memories but get on with the future!
Obie...don't want to rain on your parade but I'm a youngie (youngish anyhow) bloke living for the present and the future and doing well too but the past was better. Pilots were largely in it for the joy of flying rather than the 'money'. The art of flying a challenging piece of equipment was a pleasure.
Now all I do is blindly follow a GPS re-enforced green line on an ND in Normal Law with lots of protections and no brainwork, with some blokes who don't know a DC9 from a Ford Falcon. Often they're grumpy because they've been an FO for 2 years and haven't got their commands yet.
So whilst I might concede that looking at the past with too rosy glasses is an error, I would have to say that flying in say the 60's or 70's truly was something to get a little sentimental over.
Cearly the overwhelming response to this thread is proof of that fact!
Now all I do is blindly follow a GPS re-enforced green line on an ND in Normal Law with lots of protections and no brainwork, with some blokes who don't know a DC9 from a Ford Falcon. Often they're grumpy because they've been an FO for 2 years and haven't got their commands yet.
So whilst I might concede that looking at the past with too rosy glasses is an error, I would have to say that flying in say the 60's or 70's truly was something to get a little sentimental over.
Cearly the overwhelming response to this thread is proof of that fact!
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Diesel 9
Right, I,ll have another crack at beating this effing computer to time-out. I,m with you T.G. never flown a pure jet,but have jump-seated a few times while at bn AN freight in the eighties. Only once in the DC-9, and loved every minute of it. Great plane, and great drivers. Cheers, OA