TAA and the DC-9
I have fond memories of the 9. I was in the first batch of f/o's in AN to be endorsed. The Capts were sent over to Air Canada to do simulator and then go to Long Beach for the endorsement.
Us f/o's were to be endorsed at Tullamarine using 09/27 which was scheduled to be completed and available for training but regrettably due to industrial action was subsequently not ready. The Company therefore had no option but to send us over to Long Beach as well. All this took place before the first two a/c arrived in Oz.
Some of us were endorsed by company check capts and some by Douglas pilots. I was fortunate to be with one of the DACO pilots. Dan was very laid back..he flew the 9 like he drove his Beetle. He was frequently heard to remark that we were going to" wear the a/c out checking everything'.
The endorsement was done flying out of LGB to Bakersfield for letdowns and Mojave for circuit work. I still have very fond memories of flying across the Mojave desert at 500 ft at clacker minus 1! Also the traffic around the LA area was very heavy and one very quickly got the head out of the cockpit as we weaved our way over and under traffic both civil and military. The 29 twin locator at LGB used to almost take you through the circuit area of a very busy Marines air base. On one occasion at around 1500 agl I was loking out the window and suddenly 3 phantoms flew beneath us!!
Regarding the 2/3 crew dispute it was as I remember AFAP policy to have 3 crew on jet a/c. It was agreed that during the introduction that there would be a survey done using 3 crew..3 pilots or 2 pilots n an f/e.
DCA had cerified it for 2 crew and as such would only allow the 3rd member to read the normal checklist and start the APU on the ground. Nearly all of us realised there were no problems operating 2 crew.After the Viscount it was a breeze..loved the cockpit lighting at night.
Eventually as more and more crews were checked out and there were not so many pilots doing supernumery and therefore automatically fulfilling the 3 crew req, the AFAP decreed that after a certain date the a/c was not to be crewed by 2 pilots only.
TAA began to roster 2 crew and the pilots refused to operate in defiance of an AFAP directive and so their 9,s were grounded. We at AN had a meeting of the 9 crews and agreed that we also were not going to defy the directive. A deputation went to see "RM' and asked that the Co continue to roster 3 crew so that we would have time to work within the AFAP to try and have the policy changed.
Subsequently it developed into a standoff. AN I think would have been happy to continue ad infinitem. Eventually the AFAP withdrew the Directive and the rest is history.
I remember one morning arriving in AD on the first flt from SYD on that day and having the Senior come into the office after the pax had disembarked and advising there was a bad smell in the forward entry area. Sure enough it smelt like something had died. It wasn't the catering!! it had all been eaten. The engineers were called and eventually found the remains of a cat that had been caught up in the retract mechanism ( chains n cogs from memory) and well and truly mangled.
Seems that the previous night said moggy from the Hangar area in SYD must have decided that the stairwell was a nice warm place for a nap and some one came along and retracted the stairs. Happened twice to me..the second time the Senior came into the office and reported a bad smell. I can still see the look on her face when I casually informed her it was probably a dead cat and I would get the Engineers to remove said cat.
Anyone else out there have a similar experience?
EMERITUS
Us f/o's were to be endorsed at Tullamarine using 09/27 which was scheduled to be completed and available for training but regrettably due to industrial action was subsequently not ready. The Company therefore had no option but to send us over to Long Beach as well. All this took place before the first two a/c arrived in Oz.
Some of us were endorsed by company check capts and some by Douglas pilots. I was fortunate to be with one of the DACO pilots. Dan was very laid back..he flew the 9 like he drove his Beetle. He was frequently heard to remark that we were going to" wear the a/c out checking everything'.
The endorsement was done flying out of LGB to Bakersfield for letdowns and Mojave for circuit work. I still have very fond memories of flying across the Mojave desert at 500 ft at clacker minus 1! Also the traffic around the LA area was very heavy and one very quickly got the head out of the cockpit as we weaved our way over and under traffic both civil and military. The 29 twin locator at LGB used to almost take you through the circuit area of a very busy Marines air base. On one occasion at around 1500 agl I was loking out the window and suddenly 3 phantoms flew beneath us!!
Regarding the 2/3 crew dispute it was as I remember AFAP policy to have 3 crew on jet a/c. It was agreed that during the introduction that there would be a survey done using 3 crew..3 pilots or 2 pilots n an f/e.
DCA had cerified it for 2 crew and as such would only allow the 3rd member to read the normal checklist and start the APU on the ground. Nearly all of us realised there were no problems operating 2 crew.After the Viscount it was a breeze..loved the cockpit lighting at night.
Eventually as more and more crews were checked out and there were not so many pilots doing supernumery and therefore automatically fulfilling the 3 crew req, the AFAP decreed that after a certain date the a/c was not to be crewed by 2 pilots only.
TAA began to roster 2 crew and the pilots refused to operate in defiance of an AFAP directive and so their 9,s were grounded. We at AN had a meeting of the 9 crews and agreed that we also were not going to defy the directive. A deputation went to see "RM' and asked that the Co continue to roster 3 crew so that we would have time to work within the AFAP to try and have the policy changed.
Subsequently it developed into a standoff. AN I think would have been happy to continue ad infinitem. Eventually the AFAP withdrew the Directive and the rest is history.
I remember one morning arriving in AD on the first flt from SYD on that day and having the Senior come into the office after the pax had disembarked and advising there was a bad smell in the forward entry area. Sure enough it smelt like something had died. It wasn't the catering!! it had all been eaten. The engineers were called and eventually found the remains of a cat that had been caught up in the retract mechanism ( chains n cogs from memory) and well and truly mangled.
Seems that the previous night said moggy from the Hangar area in SYD must have decided that the stairwell was a nice warm place for a nap and some one came along and retracted the stairs. Happened twice to me..the second time the Senior came into the office and reported a bad smell. I can still see the look on her face when I casually informed her it was probably a dead cat and I would get the Engineers to remove said cat.
Anyone else out there have a similar experience?
EMERITUS
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Good onya Emeritus. It's great to hear from those that were there for our history.
Many who only heard stories get 'em wrong.
I'm lucky that I know one of the old blokes from the prewar New Guinea aviation scene, who I can ask about things we read about now. Best thing is he has all his marbles and remembers. Can't always rake up names on the spot but remembers 'em later and writes em down.
Many who only heard stories get 'em wrong.
I'm lucky that I know one of the old blokes from the prewar New Guinea aviation scene, who I can ask about things we read about now. Best thing is he has all his marbles and remembers. Can't always rake up names on the spot but remembers 'em later and writes em down.
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Sixtiesrelic, I spoke to Peter Kausman this morning and he is very interested in the fact that he is dead. He might feel like it, as he has spent the last couple of nights keeping the flood waters out of his house north of TSV, and he very annoyed as trucks keep going past and causing a bow wave in his yard, and even more annoyed that a family of ducks have set up home on top of his 4 month old Audi sedan. He said to pass on to you that the Germans spent four years trying to kill him, and he was one of the very few who completed two sorties, that TAA tried to kill him sending him out to the bush on VH MIN (he hates the bush, only loves the ocean) for three long years, and that every hoon in TSV has tried to run him of the road, but he continues to breath. He also asked if you could possibly be one of the hapless F/Os that was on the receiving end of a well aimed manual when he was tired and fed up, if so he is sorry, (you could do that in those days, now the Union, Slater and Gordon, and numerous councillers would be called in) and probably rightly so, and lastly he said that he has no intentions of dying until he has worked his way thru every last bottle of red in his collection, and he has every intention of being at the bash at New Farm in Oct. So before all the stories come out about flying with Pete, you better put a hold on em.
Thread Starter
Whinging old pensioner, whinges if it rains, next he will want a KRudd Cash top up!!!!
Obviuos the old bloke ain't seen a modern aircraft manual's and associated company manuals including how to pea correctly and at what time, no wonder the Amazon is disappearing!
Obviuos the old bloke ain't seen a modern aircraft manual's and associated company manuals including how to pea correctly and at what time, no wonder the Amazon is disappearing!
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Hope you've enjoyed the video postings so far.
To recap, from You Tube we've managed to drag up the First Up Up and Away ad and the ABC TV Promo (really a TAA ad) with the allegedly good-looking Australians:
Now some kind soul has provided a later Up Up and Away Version:
To recap, from You Tube we've managed to drag up the First Up Up and Away ad and the ABC TV Promo (really a TAA ad) with the allegedly good-looking Australians:
Now some kind soul has provided a later Up Up and Away Version:
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Teresa. I wasn't talking about Pete.
I was talking about my old man who Pete might have known as 'the abominable NOman" and I described above.
I never flew with Pete although I did spend six months in the Blue team with the more junior blokes in "the toy department", before getting the dream job in PNG with another crowd.
I was talking about my old man who Pete might have known as 'the abominable NOman" and I described above.
I never flew with Pete although I did spend six months in the Blue team with the more junior blokes in "the toy department", before getting the dream job in PNG with another crowd.
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Amazing bloke Peter, he nearly bought it over Berlin when a piece of flak came up thru the fuselage, between the pilots, hitting the roof and then falling back on him. (he has still got it and it is very heavy metal weighing about 3 kilos). It knocked him out for about 10mins whilst the Lanc was in the spotlights, but somehow they got thru. How he survived 2 sorties is amazing as most pilots and crew only lasted about 18 raids but he lasted 60 and of course went on to fly for TAA until retirement at 60. He is renouned for his toughness, and his total dislike of management, and one of the best stories (and true) is his great love of fishing, and living near SYD airport he spent many happy hours in Botany Bay fishing away, and then not able to possibly eat all he caught, he took the catch up to the Brighten Le Sands Hotel dressed in shorts, singlet and thongs and flogged the catch. Unfortunately the same hotel was the haunt of Airline management, and you can imagine the amazement of Ball and John Hickey who were lunching there to see one of their senior Captains flogging fish. As you can imagine he was invited in for tea and bikkies and ten minutes later they were left in no doubt after Peter told them he would do what he freccin well liked when not in uniform, and they could stick their airline up their ar#e, and of course Peter won, as he was a excellent senior Captain serving TAA in New Guinea, on the 3s then on to the Fockers, the 9 (which he loved) and finally retired on the Airbus, (and he still happily flogged his fish) and management decided to leave well alone. They don't make em like Peter anymore.
This thread really is magnificent, thanks Teresa and others for making my day.
Would someone please put this into a new book?
Cheers and keep all the good stories coming.
Would someone please put this into a new book?
Cheers and keep all the good stories coming.
teresa green
. . . then the ground engineer and I (holding axe) carefully went into the head, nothing, so wondered if the thing had gone down the bowl, but no sign, so had a good look around but could see nothing, then I saw the battery lid was open on one side and it was wet, and realised the poor bugger had taken a p#ss it had gone onto the battery, and he got a charge straight up the ol$ fell@,
. . . then the ground engineer and I (holding axe) carefully went into the head, nothing, so wondered if the thing had gone down the bowl, but no sign, so had a good look around but could see nothing, then I saw the battery lid was open on one side and it was wet, and realised the poor bugger had taken a p#ss it had gone onto the battery, and he got a charge straight up the ol$ fell@,
The late Toby Alleyne, a dry man as posted elsewhere hereabouts, was told by the hostie that the door handle on the dunny was busted and the bloke inside wanted out. Tobe tried the spare tool, dunny doors, for the use of. No go. Back for the crash axe. Shouts through the handle hole 'KEEP WELL BACK IN THERE.' Two or three well directed blows and centre section of door gives in. And what did Tobe write in the 14-1 (the big tin book) but
TOILET DOOR U/S.
There were Duntroon cadets ('Cordies')in the late fifties learning to fly on Austers of Kingsford Smith Flying School. (One was Laurie Doyle - whatever happened to him?). One was telling members of the Canberra Aero Club about the rigours of the bastardisation all first year cordies underwent. When they weren't being ordered out of the sack at 0300 to go up Mount Pleasant and extinguish the flashing red hazard light, 'because it's stopping me getting to sleep', they were victims of cunning stunts such as going for a slash in the middle of the night and standing in bare feet and as soon as the stream hits the stainless a circuit is made through the thin wire the cordie's standing on and a concealed 12 v battery.
Oh and a follow on to stories lavatorial. Heard these two from QF engineers from 1049 days. Staging through Karachi some Paki engineer has pleasant task of clearing blockage in hand basin because someone has crapped in it. Writes in log ' wash basin blocked. used as urinal or arsinal.' One of the DN lags reads this the next day and adds his own rider. 'Snag rectumfied'.
No idea how authentic this one is but a onetime 1049 F/E swore that a lady of generous proportions was stuck on the dunny and the females of the cabin crew could not prise her off. He said he twigged there was an air lock or a partial vacuum in the bowl. He knocked politely and entered the shouse, soaped up his hands and said to the lady, by now suffused a bright shade of pink, 'Excuse me', slid his hands between her mighty thighs, and made hasty retreat back to his more accustomed station.
Just nitpicking, but I think a sortie was one trip on operations and thirty sorties, or trips, made up a tour of operations. If you were lucky enough to survive your first tour you were "rested" at an operational training unit. Accidents here were all to common and a lot of crews were probably just as happy to take their chances with the second "tour" from which very few would survive. Sixty trips were required before they could stand down and not fly on any more ops.
Statistics were such you could not finish the first tour. The cost of aircrew lost was a staggering 55,573.
Bomber Command survivors have been treated very badly by the politicians, and others since the end of the war.
There are a lot of good books on the subject for anyone interested, which will make you wonder at their incredible bravery and dedication to what turned out to be a largely thankless job.
Statistics were such you could not finish the first tour. The cost of aircrew lost was a staggering 55,573.
Bomber Command survivors have been treated very badly by the politicians, and others since the end of the war.
There are a lot of good books on the subject for anyone interested, which will make you wonder at their incredible bravery and dedication to what turned out to be a largely thankless job.
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fantome, suction is good - very healthful and tidy (at least most of the time).
Errrr......don't mean to come across as indelicate with this next one, but same thing happened on one of our riverboat casinos. Seems the plumber was a bit too ambitious with the suction setting on that "head" - was akin to the reverse thrust on a 747.
One poor woman made the mistake of flushing while she was still sitting,
and it sucked her intestines right out. She then had the presence of mind to pick up her "long dangle" which looked just like links of breakfast sausage, walk up to one of the floor dealers and say, "I think I have a problem."
The surgeons were able to stuff it back in and she was back at the slot machines in no time. What a trooper! Seems you can't keep a dedicated punter away from those jackpots....come 'ell or highwater.
Errrr......don't mean to come across as indelicate with this next one, but same thing happened on one of our riverboat casinos. Seems the plumber was a bit too ambitious with the suction setting on that "head" - was akin to the reverse thrust on a 747.
One poor woman made the mistake of flushing while she was still sitting,
and it sucked her intestines right out. She then had the presence of mind to pick up her "long dangle" which looked just like links of breakfast sausage, walk up to one of the floor dealers and say, "I think I have a problem."
The surgeons were able to stuff it back in and she was back at the slot machines in no time. What a trooper! Seems you can't keep a dedicated punter away from those jackpots....come 'ell or highwater.
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Weheka, you are probably correct, I know 30 raids normally was the finish of that tour, very few made it of course, but somehow Peter kept going and it beggers belief that he survived. I think only 10 or so Lanc pilots did out of a amazing nbr who attended flying school in Canada. He did not talk about it to much, to painful, and being only 22 years old, and a country lad at that he dealt with it in his own way (no councillers then) and tried not to look back. Hard to imagine having somebody trying to kill you every time you took to the air.
In his recent biography of Hughie Edwards VC, Arthur Hoyle recounts Edward's 50 plus missions as evidence of extraordinary luck. Edwards was not according to Hoyle's research a particularly skillful pilot either, and was not unknown to land outside the flarepath even when no unusually hazards existed.
Leonard Cheshire VC was another bomber pilot with a high number of trips who
was born lucky.
Leonard Cheshire VC was another bomber pilot with a high number of trips who
was born lucky.
Your right, Cheshire did 100 trips and so did a few others, "Tubby' Baker 635 Sqd did 100 in Wimpeys, Stirlings and Lancs. Other members of the flight crews also did high numbers.
Some of the aircraft had an amazing run of luck as well, with 30 known Lancs to have completed 100 or more, 130 odd is the highest number I think, S suger?
Aussies very own G George in Canberra war memorial did 90 trips!
A good read because it has a lot of photos, which really tell the story, is Lancaster, by M Garbett and B Goulding.
Some of the aircraft had an amazing run of luck as well, with 30 known Lancs to have completed 100 or more, 130 odd is the highest number I think, S suger?
Aussies very own G George in Canberra war memorial did 90 trips!
A good read because it has a lot of photos, which really tell the story, is Lancaster, by M Garbett and B Goulding.
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Any one remember how the -9 operated into the NT. was the schedule BNE - ISA - DN and return, or did the aircraft continue on through WA. Was the tower at GV ever manned for the -9 ops?
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by Dog One
Any one remember how the -9 operated into the NT.
In the late 70's, as a res clerk with TAA, I recall making a reservation for a friend and her husband to travel to some place called Gove, from Melbourne. The aircraft into Gove was a DC9, though I can no longer remember its departure point.
Now, I fly it in a DC9 on steroids.
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Gove Tower
Dept policy was that all RPT jet had to fly in controlled airspace and to towered airports. (F28s were given a dispensation) As I understand it, Gove Tower was built because 9's lacked the range to carry an alternate for DN to a suitable airport in the monsoon season.
After it was completed, sanity prevailed and a decision was taken that a tower service was not really necessary. All the controller would be doing is separating the inbound aircraft from its own planned departure and completing the requirements for a distance education post-graduate degree.
There have been a number of plans over the years to do something with the tower, including one to dismantle it and move it to Nasouri, Fiji. I suspect it still rests (rusts?) in Gove.
After it was completed, sanity prevailed and a decision was taken that a tower service was not really necessary. All the controller would be doing is separating the inbound aircraft from its own planned departure and completing the requirements for a distance education post-graduate degree.
There have been a number of plans over the years to do something with the tower, including one to dismantle it and move it to Nasouri, Fiji. I suspect it still rests (rusts?) in Gove.