Falklands Crash Sites
Yep, I can confirm that it was a Tigercat fired after Bertie Penfold from the area of Stanley town. It crossed my nose about 500m ahead as I ran in to deliver my CBUs.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Jualbo,
Your link below is indeed a picture of the attack on Glasgow. Coventry was attached from the port side. Glasgow was attacked from the starboard. Interesting picture I had not seen it before. Thank you.
Skyhawk a punto de atacar al HMS Glasgow on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Your link below is indeed a picture of the attack on Glasgow. Coventry was attached from the port side. Glasgow was attacked from the starboard. Interesting picture I had not seen it before. Thank you.
Skyhawk a punto de atacar al HMS Glasgow on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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Hello all:
I found some info about the place in which 1st Lt Ardiles Dagger fell. It seems that was found .
On 3rd may, the H-93 Chinook took off from Darwin at 10:30. They found the wreck of Ardiles' plane at 11:00 in 52º04' S 58º26' W. After landing they dug in the ground without success to find the cockpit, the ejection seat or the pilot. They returned at 13:15. The coordinates seems to be placed in the north of Lively island.
Also on that day, but in an unknown hour, two IA-58 Pucará flown by 1st Lt Fassani and Lt Giménez made a reco flight from Darwin. They explored Choiseul Sound, Lively Island, Sea lions island, George island and came back to Darwin by the same route. In one of Choiseul Sound´s islands they saw a dingy and a signal mark. They orbited trying to make a better observation. One of them went up to act as a radio station with their base as they couldn´t make a radio contact flying at low level. Once they got it, they returned. The pilots were asked by the intelligece officer in Darwin, 1st Lt Basilio, as well as by the Commander in chief Lt Cdr Pedrozo who ordered the inmediate take off of a Bell 212 with the intelligence officer and some personnel that found nothing. After a second debriefing, Fassani himself offered to go in the helo, but this second attempt was unsuccesfull again. Opposite to the island there was a kelper settlement called Walker Creek. Argentineans thought that the signal mark was probably from british commandoes to guide aircrafts. Here the sources says that some parts from Ardiles plane had been previously taken from this zone and carried to Darwin.
There is a sortie of a Bell 212 (H-83) from Darwin at 16:00, returning at 17:00, but not a second one. There are no more flights from helos from Darwin that day after this one.
On 6th may there is a report of a 601 Commando Company platoon visiting Lively island and founding two fuel tanks STILL burning believed from Ardiles' plane.
On 7th may, the H-93 Chinook took off at 13:20 from Darwin to look for the crash site. During the aproach they saw a british helo that scaped to sea. Then, they landed and began to dig where some parts of the plane were but couldn´t find any piece of the cockpit nor the pilot. They came back to Darwin at 14:25. Then they took off again at 16:50 with a high officer on board, Lt Cdr Aranda, to look for the cockpit, seat or clothes, but nothing was found. They returned to Darwin at 17:35.
Source: Historia de la Fuerza Aérea Argentina. Tomo VI. Volumen 1
I found some info about the place in which 1st Lt Ardiles Dagger fell. It seems that was found .
On 3rd may, the H-93 Chinook took off from Darwin at 10:30. They found the wreck of Ardiles' plane at 11:00 in 52º04' S 58º26' W. After landing they dug in the ground without success to find the cockpit, the ejection seat or the pilot. They returned at 13:15. The coordinates seems to be placed in the north of Lively island.
Also on that day, but in an unknown hour, two IA-58 Pucará flown by 1st Lt Fassani and Lt Giménez made a reco flight from Darwin. They explored Choiseul Sound, Lively Island, Sea lions island, George island and came back to Darwin by the same route. In one of Choiseul Sound´s islands they saw a dingy and a signal mark. They orbited trying to make a better observation. One of them went up to act as a radio station with their base as they couldn´t make a radio contact flying at low level. Once they got it, they returned. The pilots were asked by the intelligece officer in Darwin, 1st Lt Basilio, as well as by the Commander in chief Lt Cdr Pedrozo who ordered the inmediate take off of a Bell 212 with the intelligence officer and some personnel that found nothing. After a second debriefing, Fassani himself offered to go in the helo, but this second attempt was unsuccesfull again. Opposite to the island there was a kelper settlement called Walker Creek. Argentineans thought that the signal mark was probably from british commandoes to guide aircrafts. Here the sources says that some parts from Ardiles plane had been previously taken from this zone and carried to Darwin.
There is a sortie of a Bell 212 (H-83) from Darwin at 16:00, returning at 17:00, but not a second one. There are no more flights from helos from Darwin that day after this one.
On 6th may there is a report of a 601 Commando Company platoon visiting Lively island and founding two fuel tanks STILL burning believed from Ardiles' plane.
On 7th may, the H-93 Chinook took off at 13:20 from Darwin to look for the crash site. During the aproach they saw a british helo that scaped to sea. Then, they landed and began to dig where some parts of the plane were but couldn´t find any piece of the cockpit nor the pilot. They came back to Darwin at 14:25. Then they took off again at 16:50 with a high officer on board, Lt Cdr Aranda, to look for the cockpit, seat or clothes, but nothing was found. They returned to Darwin at 17:35.
Source: Historia de la Fuerza Aérea Argentina. Tomo VI. Volumen 1
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Jualbo
My humblest apologies for a very long delay in reply.
I don't know if Andy Auld saw the fourth mirage.
After my attack on Raul Diaz I am guessing I was heading approximately south and Andy Auld had probably slipped into a sort of fighting wing on my left side. I was definitely still at full power but had probably lost a bit of speed by pulling almost maximum g into the turn against Raul. I may have reduced power a bit as I seem to remember slamming again to max and rolling inverted and pulling as hard as I could to follow the fourth target. He was very fast and nothing I could do would accelerate my harrier fast enough to achieve a firing solution.
I had apparently called "Counter Starboard - Go" on the radio which Andy Auld took to believe he was under attack!
In retrospect I doubt that I ever had a weapon solution in the cockpit as I never even considered firing my remaining AIM9L.
This would have taken me into a hard turn to the west and I think Andy would have ended up in trail or perhaps on my starboard echelon.
I really do not know if he had visual contact with my target.
I remember unloading to zero g and accelerating as best I could and chasing for a few seconds but it was quickly obvious I was well out of weapon parameters.
ES
My humblest apologies for a very long delay in reply.
I don't know if Andy Auld saw the fourth mirage.
After my attack on Raul Diaz I am guessing I was heading approximately south and Andy Auld had probably slipped into a sort of fighting wing on my left side. I was definitely still at full power but had probably lost a bit of speed by pulling almost maximum g into the turn against Raul. I may have reduced power a bit as I seem to remember slamming again to max and rolling inverted and pulling as hard as I could to follow the fourth target. He was very fast and nothing I could do would accelerate my harrier fast enough to achieve a firing solution.
I had apparently called "Counter Starboard - Go" on the radio which Andy Auld took to believe he was under attack!
In retrospect I doubt that I ever had a weapon solution in the cockpit as I never even considered firing my remaining AIM9L.
This would have taken me into a hard turn to the west and I think Andy would have ended up in trail or perhaps on my starboard echelon.
I really do not know if he had visual contact with my target.
I remember unloading to zero g and accelerating as best I could and chasing for a few seconds but it was quickly obvious I was well out of weapon parameters.
ES
Last edited by Edmund Spencer; 25th Dec 2010 at 22:03.
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Here is another aside which I would like to add to the thread.
During the combat on 8 June I flew at very high speed very close to one of the pilots in a parachute that Dave Morgan had just shot down.
It is a fleeting memory but I think it was on my left side by about fifty metres or so. I was doing in excess of 600 knots so it was just a flash of memory.
I seem to remember a few days later doing another CAP in the same area and hearing a distressed call in Spanish on the military guard frequency.
I always wondered if this was the same fellow in his dinghy or stuck on a remote island somewhere.
Can anyone add any information to this?
There is no doubt I passed someone in a parachute. Has his body ever been recovered?
I know that all the guys we shot down on that day perished. However, I most definitely saw one of them in a parachute.
ES
During the combat on 8 June I flew at very high speed very close to one of the pilots in a parachute that Dave Morgan had just shot down.
It is a fleeting memory but I think it was on my left side by about fifty metres or so. I was doing in excess of 600 knots so it was just a flash of memory.
I seem to remember a few days later doing another CAP in the same area and hearing a distressed call in Spanish on the military guard frequency.
I always wondered if this was the same fellow in his dinghy or stuck on a remote island somewhere.
Can anyone add any information to this?
There is no doubt I passed someone in a parachute. Has his body ever been recovered?
I know that all the guys we shot down on that day perished. However, I most definitely saw one of them in a parachute.
ES
ES,
The ejection history website have the entry listed as 'Alferez Vazquez unsuccessfully ejected and was killed'
Argentina
Some sources name Lt Juan José Arrarás. See post #69 by Jualbo.
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...h-sites-4.html
'About 8th june downings I´ve always had a doubt. The identity of the ejected pilot (although never found). According to some sources he was 2nd Lt Alfredo Vázquez while others say he was Lt Juan José Arrarás.'
It might be worth contacting Mike Bennett as he might have additional info?
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/index.htm
TJ
The ejection history website have the entry listed as 'Alferez Vazquez unsuccessfully ejected and was killed'
Argentina
Some sources name Lt Juan José Arrarás. See post #69 by Jualbo.
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...h-sites-4.html
'About 8th june downings I´ve always had a doubt. The identity of the ejected pilot (although never found). According to some sources he was 2nd Lt Alfredo Vázquez while others say he was Lt Juan José Arrarás.'
It might be worth contacting Mike Bennett as he might have additional info?
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/index.htm
TJ
Last edited by TEEEJ; 26th Dec 2010 at 13:56.
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Rocket Launcher
A book I read on the Falkland's combat (Long gone so I can't give the title but memory suggests either The Air War for The Falklands or Helicopters over the Falklands) there was a picture that has always intrigued me.
It was an American Pattern 19 tube 2.75 inch rocket pod mounted on a pole horizontally. It was in a built up area and was taken after the end of the war.
Anyone have any idea what it was used for?
Regards
It was an American Pattern 19 tube 2.75 inch rocket pod mounted on a pole horizontally. It was in a built up area and was taken after the end of the war.
Anyone have any idea what it was used for?
Regards
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Hello all again. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
I have new info about Ardiles and Gª Cuerva crash sites. According to the same source than my previous post, some parts from Ardiles plane were found 30 miles SW from Stanley what means (more or less), Swan Inlet and East Cove zone. That makes a south-north course of falling since the moment it was hit. The southern wreck were found in the NE of Lively island while the northern elements appeared in Swan Inlet zone. It´s likely that more pieces had fallen to sea at Choiseul Sound between both places. On 6th may an Argentine Army Puma and an Agusta A-109, landed on Lively island with an Army green beret patrol. They found burnt ground where the plane jettisoned its external fuel tanks but no other parts.
The news about Gª Cuerva points that his plane fell to sea in a position placed between Hookers Pt and Christina Bay.
About the calling in spanish may be various possibilities:
On the night of 13th june a Canberra was downed. Captain Pastrán ejected while captain Casado seems didn´t. Pastrán could get to land in his dinghy and was captured shortly after this. The plane fell to sea close to Fitzroy. Two years ago, a human bone from Casado's body found in the shore in 1986 was identified by DNA techniques. Did he finally eject? Did his body go afloat after crashing?
There were some other missions flown by argentine planes from 8th june to 13th june and many of them were flown in that zone. Perhaps the desperate calling was made by some of those pilots (for example I remember 2nd Lt Delllepiane calling in a desperate way to the tanker to refuel as he was running out of fuel after being hit by small arms when he attacked 3 Brigade HQ on Two Sister on 13th june. He could finally get it and came back safely. Ingress and scape route were however northern).
There were some argentine reco patrols from the ROA (Red de Observadores del Aire) in the zone that send info about air movements. I know some of them could be rescued and others had to surrender to british forces as there was no way to be replenished or relieved.
It would help if you could recall the date in which this call was listened.
The identity of the pilot seen hanging on the parachute:
In my opinion, and after listening Héctor Sánchez's testimony as well as Dave Morgan´s one, he is Lt Arrarás. According to Sánchez the order in the argentine formation when the advertisment to attack the Foxtrot-4 was made, was as follows:
Number one: Bolzán
Number two: Arrarás
Number three: Vázquez
Number four: Sánchez
Sánchez kept a paralel course to you on your left and remained unseen, so the interception was made in the third step of the formation. He saw you in his right. According to Morgan he wanted to down in first place the pilot that had hit the LCU. He was the pilot that had attacked in second place (Arrarás). But he then saw another pilot closer and in the left rear of the second one, so changed his mind and attacked him the first (this pilot, according to Sánchez's order, is number 3, Vázquez) . After shooting down him, then Morgan went for his initial target. This is the one that ejects. His body was never recovered.
Do you remember if the pilot seen by you hanging on his parachute, seemed to be conscious? According to Morgan he just saw him in an horizontal position and have doubts about it. Although some sources points to the contrary, Morgan confirmed that the parachute was not in flames.
The rocket launcher that R J Kinloch asks for, was placed in a slide in Goose Green and was used against british paratroops on 28th may. Exists a photo of this. Argentineans also placed a rocket launcher in a track that day. They were Pucara rocket launchers.
Edmund, did you advance in your investigations on "Plata" flight pilots? Musso and Callejo are both good candidates to be your fourth plane as scaped overflying Pebble island. Díaz remembers watching a Dagger flying over him after falling to land with his parachute. Captain Dellepiane (a familiar from the 2nd Lt I told you previously in the post) was the leader in the flight and have not info about his returning route.
According to Callejo, they saw two Skyhawks going out from San Carlos when they were ingressing there, but according to the timetables from FAA webpage the closer skyhawks to do that ("Jaguar" flight, 3 A-4C: 1st Lt Vázquez, Lt Bono and 2nd Lt Martínez), attacked theorically around ten minutes before Plata arrived, so it´s likely to be Sea Harriers and not Skyhawks what they really saw. May be you? Although the book I´ve previously talked about says that Plata overflown Port San Carlos at 11:07 and Oro was downed at 11:04, I suspect both times are wrong as Dagger´s missions from San Julián invariably lasted 2 hours and 40 minutes and were made without refuelling. And the same source, as well as others I have, put the taking off at 10:20 and 10:22 respectively and the landing at 13:00, so mid time is aproximately 11:40 and the most likely to be at San Carlos. The History of Argentine Air Force also says that Plata attacked with 2 CAP over Falkland Sound.
Estimated times at San Carlos of different flights that day were:
Chispa 10:40 (2 A-4B from Río Gallegos)
Nene 10:40 (3 A-4B from Río Gallegos)
Halcón 10:45 (3 A-4C from San Julián. Didn´t arrive the target and aborted when were 10 miles north from Dolphin Cape)
Azul 11:00 (4 Daggers from Río Grande)
Jaguar 11:30 (3 A-4C from San Julián. Returned with a 260º course)
Plata 11:40 (3 Daggers from San Julián)
Oro 11:42 (3 Daggers from San Julián intercepted over Pebble island by you)
Another doubt is about the place where Díaz´s plane fell. You say in the south of Pebble island as you saw it marginally exploding and crashing. So over land. But was this wreck found? Many sources point that it was C-419 but I now think it´s C-430 as there are some photos of a wreck with this number.
Puga and Díaz also says that Castillo´s plane fell to sea, 8km off shore, as well as Puga´s. But according to first page link (by TEEJ) two Dagger are claimed to be at NE of First Mt. Two years ago some human rests were found in the zone. Initially confused with Castillo´s they were in fact from Lt Volponi (whom some other rests were found in 1982). Is the second place in First Mt from the same Dagger (Volponi´s one)? Or perhaps is Díaz´s C-430 one? Did you see Díaz Dagger´s crash and where it happened? Many authors say C-430 was the plane piloted by Lt Castillo, but I think it was C-419. 1st Lt Posadas (Dagger maintenance responsable in San Julián) in his book claims that Díaz's plane was C-430 while C-419 was Castillo's one and C-410 Puga's.
I found this old article about one SHar pilot at Falklands :-)
http://books.google.es/books?id=itUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=pilots+found+falkl ands+1983&source=bl&ots=WIPrGXrm76&sig=QdMaw0omPpS7DcsaPrc_L TyWLPU&hl=es&ei=XC9KTMW_C5mg4QbLzvCkAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&c t=result&resnum=10&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Regards
PS: ES, I send you a PM
PS2: Do you know something about the circumstancies in which captain García's body was found in his dinghy at Golding island in 1983?
I have new info about Ardiles and Gª Cuerva crash sites. According to the same source than my previous post, some parts from Ardiles plane were found 30 miles SW from Stanley what means (more or less), Swan Inlet and East Cove zone. That makes a south-north course of falling since the moment it was hit. The southern wreck were found in the NE of Lively island while the northern elements appeared in Swan Inlet zone. It´s likely that more pieces had fallen to sea at Choiseul Sound between both places. On 6th may an Argentine Army Puma and an Agusta A-109, landed on Lively island with an Army green beret patrol. They found burnt ground where the plane jettisoned its external fuel tanks but no other parts.
The news about Gª Cuerva points that his plane fell to sea in a position placed between Hookers Pt and Christina Bay.
About the calling in spanish may be various possibilities:
On the night of 13th june a Canberra was downed. Captain Pastrán ejected while captain Casado seems didn´t. Pastrán could get to land in his dinghy and was captured shortly after this. The plane fell to sea close to Fitzroy. Two years ago, a human bone from Casado's body found in the shore in 1986 was identified by DNA techniques. Did he finally eject? Did his body go afloat after crashing?
There were some other missions flown by argentine planes from 8th june to 13th june and many of them were flown in that zone. Perhaps the desperate calling was made by some of those pilots (for example I remember 2nd Lt Delllepiane calling in a desperate way to the tanker to refuel as he was running out of fuel after being hit by small arms when he attacked 3 Brigade HQ on Two Sister on 13th june. He could finally get it and came back safely. Ingress and scape route were however northern).
There were some argentine reco patrols from the ROA (Red de Observadores del Aire) in the zone that send info about air movements. I know some of them could be rescued and others had to surrender to british forces as there was no way to be replenished or relieved.
It would help if you could recall the date in which this call was listened.
The identity of the pilot seen hanging on the parachute:
In my opinion, and after listening Héctor Sánchez's testimony as well as Dave Morgan´s one, he is Lt Arrarás. According to Sánchez the order in the argentine formation when the advertisment to attack the Foxtrot-4 was made, was as follows:
Number one: Bolzán
Number two: Arrarás
Number three: Vázquez
Number four: Sánchez
Sánchez kept a paralel course to you on your left and remained unseen, so the interception was made in the third step of the formation. He saw you in his right. According to Morgan he wanted to down in first place the pilot that had hit the LCU. He was the pilot that had attacked in second place (Arrarás). But he then saw another pilot closer and in the left rear of the second one, so changed his mind and attacked him the first (this pilot, according to Sánchez's order, is number 3, Vázquez) . After shooting down him, then Morgan went for his initial target. This is the one that ejects. His body was never recovered.
Do you remember if the pilot seen by you hanging on his parachute, seemed to be conscious? According to Morgan he just saw him in an horizontal position and have doubts about it. Although some sources points to the contrary, Morgan confirmed that the parachute was not in flames.
The rocket launcher that R J Kinloch asks for, was placed in a slide in Goose Green and was used against british paratroops on 28th may. Exists a photo of this. Argentineans also placed a rocket launcher in a track that day. They were Pucara rocket launchers.
Edmund, did you advance in your investigations on "Plata" flight pilots? Musso and Callejo are both good candidates to be your fourth plane as scaped overflying Pebble island. Díaz remembers watching a Dagger flying over him after falling to land with his parachute. Captain Dellepiane (a familiar from the 2nd Lt I told you previously in the post) was the leader in the flight and have not info about his returning route.
According to Callejo, they saw two Skyhawks going out from San Carlos when they were ingressing there, but according to the timetables from FAA webpage the closer skyhawks to do that ("Jaguar" flight, 3 A-4C: 1st Lt Vázquez, Lt Bono and 2nd Lt Martínez), attacked theorically around ten minutes before Plata arrived, so it´s likely to be Sea Harriers and not Skyhawks what they really saw. May be you? Although the book I´ve previously talked about says that Plata overflown Port San Carlos at 11:07 and Oro was downed at 11:04, I suspect both times are wrong as Dagger´s missions from San Julián invariably lasted 2 hours and 40 minutes and were made without refuelling. And the same source, as well as others I have, put the taking off at 10:20 and 10:22 respectively and the landing at 13:00, so mid time is aproximately 11:40 and the most likely to be at San Carlos. The History of Argentine Air Force also says that Plata attacked with 2 CAP over Falkland Sound.
Estimated times at San Carlos of different flights that day were:
Chispa 10:40 (2 A-4B from Río Gallegos)
Nene 10:40 (3 A-4B from Río Gallegos)
Halcón 10:45 (3 A-4C from San Julián. Didn´t arrive the target and aborted when were 10 miles north from Dolphin Cape)
Azul 11:00 (4 Daggers from Río Grande)
Jaguar 11:30 (3 A-4C from San Julián. Returned with a 260º course)
Plata 11:40 (3 Daggers from San Julián)
Oro 11:42 (3 Daggers from San Julián intercepted over Pebble island by you)
Another doubt is about the place where Díaz´s plane fell. You say in the south of Pebble island as you saw it marginally exploding and crashing. So over land. But was this wreck found? Many sources point that it was C-419 but I now think it´s C-430 as there are some photos of a wreck with this number.
Puga and Díaz also says that Castillo´s plane fell to sea, 8km off shore, as well as Puga´s. But according to first page link (by TEEJ) two Dagger are claimed to be at NE of First Mt. Two years ago some human rests were found in the zone. Initially confused with Castillo´s they were in fact from Lt Volponi (whom some other rests were found in 1982). Is the second place in First Mt from the same Dagger (Volponi´s one)? Or perhaps is Díaz´s C-430 one? Did you see Díaz Dagger´s crash and where it happened? Many authors say C-430 was the plane piloted by Lt Castillo, but I think it was C-419. 1st Lt Posadas (Dagger maintenance responsable in San Julián) in his book claims that Díaz's plane was C-430 while C-419 was Castillo's one and C-410 Puga's.
I found this old article about one SHar pilot at Falklands :-)
http://books.google.es/books?id=itUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=pilots+found+falkl ands+1983&source=bl&ots=WIPrGXrm76&sig=QdMaw0omPpS7DcsaPrc_L TyWLPU&hl=es&ei=XC9KTMW_C5mg4QbLzvCkAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&c t=result&resnum=10&ved=0CE4Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Regards
PS: ES, I send you a PM
PS2: Do you know something about the circumstancies in which captain García's body was found in his dinghy at Golding island in 1983?
Last edited by jualbo; 29th Dec 2010 at 17:56.
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Jualbo
Regarding Garcia' remains, please read Los Halcones no se LLoran. All the details are there.
Clearly C-430 was flown by Diaz, as he was the only one that "landed" on the island and his was the only plane of the section that crashed there.
Regretfully, all books written so far, based on Argentine official (but incorrect) information have the serial numbers crossed.
Regards
Pablo
Regarding Garcia' remains, please read Los Halcones no se LLoran. All the details are there.
Clearly C-430 was flown by Diaz, as he was the only one that "landed" on the island and his was the only plane of the section that crashed there.
Regretfully, all books written so far, based on Argentine official (but incorrect) information have the serial numbers crossed.
Regards
Pablo
Re: Number four: Sánchez
Major Hector Sanchez was CASO ( Chief Air Staff Officer ) at UNIKOM on the the Kuwait Iraq border when I was there flying Bell 212's for the UN in the mid 90's
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/mi...past/unikom/UN
Great fellow and a true gentleman.
Major Hector Sanchez was CASO ( Chief Air Staff Officer ) at UNIKOM on the the Kuwait Iraq border when I was there flying Bell 212's for the UN in the mid 90's
http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/mi...past/unikom/UN
Great fellow and a true gentleman.
Last edited by albatross; 17th Jan 2011 at 06:49. Reason: Spelling as usual!
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Jualbo.
Very comprehensive post. Many thanks.
Thank you also, Pablo.
I will try to answer your questions in order.
I cannot remember precisely when I heard the distress calls on 'guard'. But I am fairly certain it would have been only a couple of days after the action.
The parachute was definitely not on fire but I regret I really cannot remember if the pilot was alive or conscious. I guess he would have had his hands on the risers if he was alert and conscious. This would be the normal picture of someone in a parachute and I don't remember anything different. It was only a fleeting glance for me. I saw him incredibly late and didn't even have time to react. The light was failing quite fast and there was a lot of low cloud and precipitation around making the visibility variable at best.
I haven't progressed my investigation with the 'Plata' pilots.
After I chased the "fourth" mirage for about two minutes in a westerly direction we knocked it off and Andy Auld and I reformed and went back to our original CAP station to the north of the Falkland Sound for a short period until we ran low on fuel and had to return to HMS Hermes. We would have been over the West Falklands at the end of the combat and the heading back to the CAP station would probably have been NE. We certainly would not have been seen exiting the San Carlos area.
The exact time of our action against 'Oro' will be difficult to ascertain. The 'D' onboard the picket ship would probably have kept a log.
Navaleye, can you help here?
I can confirm without absolutely no doubt that Oro 2 flown by Lt Carlos Castillo in C419 was flying to the left of Raul Diaz and was the first to be hit by Andy Auld's first missile. The aircraft exploded over the sea well to the north of Pebble Island. Major Luis Puga was flying as Oro 3 in C410 was on the right. His aircraft was also destroyed in an explosion and fell into the sea.
I quote from the extraordinary email that Raul Diaz sent me a couple of years ago:
"I was the leader and it took to Leutenan Carlos Castillo like numeral 2 and Mayor Luis Puga like numeral 3.
Castillo flew to my left and Puga to my right."
Allan White, who owns the Pebble Island Lodge, has sent me photographs of Raul's C430 wreckage and I can clearly see the "C430" on the left hand side of the fuselage just forward of the cockpit. I will publish it here when I get the time.
There is, apparently, other wreckage in the same spot but we think this may be the aircraft shot down my Martin Hale on 25th May?
It is still interesting to speculate on why Cuerva fired his cannons in a long continuous burst when he was flying towards the airfield and directly over Stanley. (Apparently kids were picking up the shell casings as they fell!)
I should be very surprised if this was a weight reducing strategy. We were very weight conscious in the harrier for hover performance and I might have considered getting rid of external stores and pylons and fuel etc but I would never have thought about firing my cannons. (Perhaps I should!)
I guess I am still trying to figure if his mirage had in fact been damaged by Steve Thomas' missile.
ES
Very comprehensive post. Many thanks.
Thank you also, Pablo.
I will try to answer your questions in order.
I cannot remember precisely when I heard the distress calls on 'guard'. But I am fairly certain it would have been only a couple of days after the action.
The parachute was definitely not on fire but I regret I really cannot remember if the pilot was alive or conscious. I guess he would have had his hands on the risers if he was alert and conscious. This would be the normal picture of someone in a parachute and I don't remember anything different. It was only a fleeting glance for me. I saw him incredibly late and didn't even have time to react. The light was failing quite fast and there was a lot of low cloud and precipitation around making the visibility variable at best.
I haven't progressed my investigation with the 'Plata' pilots.
After I chased the "fourth" mirage for about two minutes in a westerly direction we knocked it off and Andy Auld and I reformed and went back to our original CAP station to the north of the Falkland Sound for a short period until we ran low on fuel and had to return to HMS Hermes. We would have been over the West Falklands at the end of the combat and the heading back to the CAP station would probably have been NE. We certainly would not have been seen exiting the San Carlos area.
The exact time of our action against 'Oro' will be difficult to ascertain. The 'D' onboard the picket ship would probably have kept a log.
Navaleye, can you help here?
I can confirm without absolutely no doubt that Oro 2 flown by Lt Carlos Castillo in C419 was flying to the left of Raul Diaz and was the first to be hit by Andy Auld's first missile. The aircraft exploded over the sea well to the north of Pebble Island. Major Luis Puga was flying as Oro 3 in C410 was on the right. His aircraft was also destroyed in an explosion and fell into the sea.
I quote from the extraordinary email that Raul Diaz sent me a couple of years ago:
"I was the leader and it took to Leutenan Carlos Castillo like numeral 2 and Mayor Luis Puga like numeral 3.
Castillo flew to my left and Puga to my right."
Allan White, who owns the Pebble Island Lodge, has sent me photographs of Raul's C430 wreckage and I can clearly see the "C430" on the left hand side of the fuselage just forward of the cockpit. I will publish it here when I get the time.
There is, apparently, other wreckage in the same spot but we think this may be the aircraft shot down my Martin Hale on 25th May?
It is still interesting to speculate on why Cuerva fired his cannons in a long continuous burst when he was flying towards the airfield and directly over Stanley. (Apparently kids were picking up the shell casings as they fell!)
I should be very surprised if this was a weight reducing strategy. We were very weight conscious in the harrier for hover performance and I might have considered getting rid of external stores and pylons and fuel etc but I would never have thought about firing my cannons. (Perhaps I should!)
I guess I am still trying to figure if his mirage had in fact been damaged by Steve Thomas' missile.
ES
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The fourth Mirage
Hi Guys, I been out of this thread for a long time. I'm happy to see that it's still alive.
Regarding the four "Mirage" Edmund recalls, and according to what I talked with Mario Callejo told me, he was who was leaving San Carlos with his Dagger at the moment you shot down the Oro flight. He escaped alone after his attack and after heading north over the Sound he turned west as soon as he reached the northest end of West Falkland, at the same time Oro flight was being intercepted close to Pebble Island. Then he saw a frigate to the north (Broadsword or Coventry) who fired a missile upon him, so he put the afterburner and jetissoned the fuel tanks, he turned right to face the missile and after avoiding it he turned left and headed to the islands passing over Pebble Island.
Albatross, I just send you a message with Hector's contact
Best regards
Santiago
Regarding the four "Mirage" Edmund recalls, and according to what I talked with Mario Callejo told me, he was who was leaving San Carlos with his Dagger at the moment you shot down the Oro flight. He escaped alone after his attack and after heading north over the Sound he turned west as soon as he reached the northest end of West Falkland, at the same time Oro flight was being intercepted close to Pebble Island. Then he saw a frigate to the north (Broadsword or Coventry) who fired a missile upon him, so he put the afterburner and jetissoned the fuel tanks, he turned right to face the missile and after avoiding it he turned left and headed to the islands passing over Pebble Island.
Albatross, I just send you a message with Hector's contact
Best regards
Santiago
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Santiago.
I am not sure if this would work with the timeline. We were under the direct control of HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword at the time so I think it unlikely they would have launched a missile into the middle of our combat!
The next day we were vectored against the attack that eventually sunk the Coventry and were very firmly hauled off and ordered to turn away when they thought they were "Birds Affirm!"
Absolutely ghastly feeling when the raid got through. I felt sick to the core.
I wonder what Nelson would have done under the circumstances?
ES
I am not sure if this would work with the timeline. We were under the direct control of HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword at the time so I think it unlikely they would have launched a missile into the middle of our combat!
The next day we were vectored against the attack that eventually sunk the Coventry and were very firmly hauled off and ordered to turn away when they thought they were "Birds Affirm!"
Absolutely ghastly feeling when the raid got through. I felt sick to the core.
I wonder what Nelson would have done under the circumstances?
ES
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Edmund, Brown confirms this lauching from HMS Coventry on 24th may in his book "The Royal Navy and the Falklands War".
But the BOI of HMS Coventry doesn´t seem to show it although some lines are still censoured:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F5811...s_coventry.pdf
Look at page 18 of the pdf document (page 11of the BOI itself)
Regards
But the BOI of HMS Coventry doesn´t seem to show it although some lines are still censoured:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F5811...s_coventry.pdf
Look at page 18 of the pdf document (page 11of the BOI itself)
Regards