Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass)
Yes Treadi - Slingsby Gliders (at least up to the Skylark 4) are operated as Annex 2 gliders with a BGA number/Tri Graph.
proving it works
That reminds me of one pupil I was given. Sat in the cockpit for the first time I passed him the FRCs (it was in a Venture) and proceeded to read the Cockpit checks having asked him to follow me. He said "Sorry sir I can't read", having been brought up in the 'wooden fleet' days where FRC's were unknown and all you had to remember was CBSITCB I replied "OK repeat after me".
This cadet is one I am proud of, he memorized the checks and he went solo and if his later life was restricted by his level of literacy at least he could say he had flown an aircraft on his own.
This cadet is one I am proud of, he memorized the checks and he went solo and if his later life was restricted by his level of literacy at least he could say he had flown an aircraft on his own.
I will never forget the 'pile' of wellies that the Cadets had to sort out a pair from !!!
Last edited by POBJOY; 19th Jan 2022 at 17:15.
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I thought I had lost my old 'P2' Chit forever but came across it today whilst looking for something else.
I got my P2 rating when the CGS Trappers visited Halton during the best month to fly open cockpit in a T31/Mk3.
The 'P2' rating was changed to 'G1' (grade 1) fairly soon after this date.
Now suitably 'Foxed' by age
I got my P2 rating when the CGS Trappers visited Halton during the best month to fly open cockpit in a T31/Mk3.
The 'P2' rating was changed to 'G1' (grade 1) fairly soon after this date.
Now suitably 'Foxed' by age
As I recall a P2 could be issued by the Gliding School concerned which was useful as there was a lot of Cadet AE flying by the 70's. At Kenley (615) which was not a huge site our 'safety conscious' CO would not issue a P2 for AEF work until one had 100 P1 flights under the belt. A quick way to boost one's flights was to 'help' at a centre for a week or two when you were given a machine to use after the course cadets had done their solo's.
If my memory is correct I do not recall 'any' real classroom briefings for ATC flying at the time, Cadets were briefed in the cockpit and got on with it.
If my memory is correct I do not recall 'any' real classroom briefings for ATC flying at the time, Cadets were briefed in the cockpit and got on with it.
Not sure about P2 Pobjoy,my 'D' Cat and 'P1' ratings were done locally,maybe P2 could be awarded either way - perhaps by an 'A' Cat on a GS ? I think only the Boss was an A1 Cat on 613 at that time.
I agree that classroom time was rare - perhaps a bit during bad weather days ?
Somebody must have told me about the '45 deg rule'
I agree that classroom time was rare - perhaps a bit during bad weather days ?
Somebody must have told me about the '45 deg rule'
Last edited by longer ron; 7th Mar 2022 at 07:29.
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OK, this is a biggie!
A friend of mine has just started producing MKIIIs in resin 1/32 scale
The level of detail is phenomenal and as it's obviously a niche model the price reflects that.
But where else are you going to get such an iconic glider in model form
https://flyingstartmodels.com/Flying...ldfyNHOmzQLZzQ
A friend of mine has just started producing MKIIIs in resin 1/32 scale
The level of detail is phenomenal and as it's obviously a niche model the price reflects that. But where else are you going to get such an iconic glider in model form
https://flyingstartmodels.com/Flying...ldfyNHOmzQLZzQ
Gnome de PPRuNe
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OK, this is a biggie!
A friend of mine has just started producing MKIIIs in resin 1/32 scale The level of detail is phenomenal and as it's obviously a niche model the price reflects that.
But where else are you going to get such an iconic glider in model form
https://flyingstartmodels.com/Flying...ldfyNHOmzQLZzQ
A friend of mine has just started producing MKIIIs in resin 1/32 scale
The level of detail is phenomenal and as it's obviously a niche model the price reflects that.But where else are you going to get such an iconic glider in model form
https://flyingstartmodels.com/Flying...ldfyNHOmzQLZzQ
I've got a 1/48th resin Sedbergh and possibly a Cadet somewhere, not bad little kits as I recall but nowhere near as nice as that looks.
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To add to 621andy's post regarding the Flying Start Models 1:32 kit - I've put together a review of this jewel of a model here: https://www.largescaleplanes.com/rev...w.php?rid=2427
Highly recommended!
Iain
Highly recommended!
Iain
To add to 621andy's post regarding the Flying Start Models 1:32 kit - I've put together a review of this jewel of a model here: https://www.largescaleplanes.com/rev...w.php?rid=2427
Highly recommended!
Iain
Highly recommended!
Iain
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I can also confirm that not all Mk III had spoilers. I did my Proficiency with 637 GS at RAF Gaydon in 1969 and all (5?) did not have them fitted - no use really on a 2.5 mile runway!
However when we transferred to RAF Little Rissington in 1978 we were re-equipped with spoilered MK IIIs.
I seem to recall being told by a MGSP chap that the spoilers were fitted during Major Servicing - oh what fun to create asymmetric drag from the back seat by pulling one of the cables!
However when we transferred to RAF Little Rissington in 1978 we were re-equipped with spoilered MK IIIs.
I seem to recall being told by a MGSP chap that the spoilers were fitted during Major Servicing - oh what fun to create asymmetric drag from the back seat by pulling one of the cables!
Not sure about P2 Pobjoy,my 'D' Cat and 'P1' ratings were done locally,maybe P2 could be awarded either way - perhaps by an 'A' Cat on a GS ? I think only the Boss was an A1 Cat on 613 at that time.
I agree that classroom time was rare - perhaps a bit during bad weather days ?
Somebody must have told me about the '45 deg rule'
I agree that classroom time was rare - perhaps a bit during bad weather days ?
Somebody must have told me about the '45 deg rule'
Some time later, Ken Bayliss (aka 'KGB') the next CFI at 613 did my P2 checks after 5 launches on a rough day with a strong crosswind.
There must still be a 'lesson to be learned' from that (simple but safe) training system 'that was' that could solo a non selected youngster in just over an hours actual flight time** without prescribed classroom work or a set of 'pilots notes'.
I look back in wonder how it 'just worked' and of course when the mainstream RAF cottoned on to the fact that these 'volunteers' were operating without an actual classroom scenario it must have been a bit of a shock.
I know the machines were simple, but did it happen because no one told us it would not work like that. Anyway work it did until someone reinvented the wheel and it fell off. Perhaps it was to do with the activity that made it happen with lots of hands on involvement so you got used to seeing others seemingly getting on with it without much fuss. As an exercise in youth decision making I really think it was incredible and something that stayed with you for ever. I also think that todays 'managers' would be better off given the chance to go through that system that gave us the opportunity to self develop at the right time in life.
** including cable breaks
The change to the raspberry ripple scheme looks dreadful and the safety goggles a joke. At least the MK 8 looked the part even if they were not really needed (other than for photo's) and went well with a soapy hat.
I look back in wonder how it 'just worked' and of course when the mainstream RAF cottoned on to the fact that these 'volunteers' were operating without an actual classroom scenario it must have been a bit of a shock.
I know the machines were simple, but did it happen because no one told us it would not work like that. Anyway work it did until someone reinvented the wheel and it fell off. Perhaps it was to do with the activity that made it happen with lots of hands on involvement so you got used to seeing others seemingly getting on with it without much fuss. As an exercise in youth decision making I really think it was incredible and something that stayed with you for ever. I also think that todays 'managers' would be better off given the chance to go through that system that gave us the opportunity to self develop at the right time in life.
** including cable breaks
The change to the raspberry ripple scheme looks dreadful and the safety goggles a joke. At least the MK 8 looked the part even if they were not really needed (other than for photo's) and went well with a soapy hat.
It was all predicated on 'teamwork'.
Even a brand new cadet arriving for AEG would be told 'put your foot on that wingtip' and thus be given something to do. Staff cadets, not much older than those new cadets, would brief you on what bits you could touch and what bits not eg the handholds forward of the tailplane and the 'rim' of the cockpit; you would always be told what to do and you were there to fly so you took it all in and retained it for next time.
Then under the watchful eye of a staff cadet once again, you were told 'wing up six inches', then 'wings level' etc.
People like you and I Pob were essential to the workings of the school and in turn, we bestowed knowledge and ability on the ab initio cadets and of course at the same time, we were learning from the instructors and passing their knowledge on.
Best gliding club in the world and all free; now gone.
I have to add that, later in life when I became an ATCO and was lucky enough to be posted to Farnborough to scrounge flights in things like Wessex, Puma, and Lynx helicopters, I found them comparatively easy to handle in the air and during low hover operations and I'm convinced my experience of low speed flight in Air Cadet gliders helped with this.
Even a brand new cadet arriving for AEG would be told 'put your foot on that wingtip' and thus be given something to do. Staff cadets, not much older than those new cadets, would brief you on what bits you could touch and what bits not eg the handholds forward of the tailplane and the 'rim' of the cockpit; you would always be told what to do and you were there to fly so you took it all in and retained it for next time.
Then under the watchful eye of a staff cadet once again, you were told 'wing up six inches', then 'wings level' etc.
People like you and I Pob were essential to the workings of the school and in turn, we bestowed knowledge and ability on the ab initio cadets and of course at the same time, we were learning from the instructors and passing their knowledge on.
Best gliding club in the world and all free; now gone.
I have to add that, later in life when I became an ATCO and was lucky enough to be posted to Farnborough to scrounge flights in things like Wessex, Puma, and Lynx helicopters, I found them comparatively easy to handle in the air and during low hover operations and I'm convinced my experience of low speed flight in Air Cadet gliders helped with this.
Not reinventing the wheel, just remembering how it works !!!
It was all predicated on 'teamwork'.
Even a brand new cadet arriving for AEG would be told 'put your foot on that wingtip' and thus be given something to do. Staff cadets, not much older than those new cadets, would brief you on what bits you could touch and what bits not eg the handholds forward of the tailplane and the 'rim' of the cockpit; you would always be told what to do and you were there to fly so you took it all in and retained it for next time.
Then under the watchful eye of a staff cadet once again, you were told 'wing up six inches', then 'wings level' etc.
People like you and I Pob were essential to the workings of the school and in turn, we bestowed knowledge and ability on the ab initio cadets and of course at the same time, we were learning from the instructors and passing their knowledge on.
Best gliding club in the world and all free; now gone.
I have to add that, later in life when I became an ATCO and was lucky enough to be posted to Farnborough to scrounge flights in things like Wessex, Puma, and Lynx helicopters, I found them comparatively easy to handle in the air and during low hover operations and I'm convinced my experience of low speed flight in Air Cadet gliders helped with this.
Even a brand new cadet arriving for AEG would be told 'put your foot on that wingtip' and thus be given something to do. Staff cadets, not much older than those new cadets, would brief you on what bits you could touch and what bits not eg the handholds forward of the tailplane and the 'rim' of the cockpit; you would always be told what to do and you were there to fly so you took it all in and retained it for next time.
Then under the watchful eye of a staff cadet once again, you were told 'wing up six inches', then 'wings level' etc.
People like you and I Pob were essential to the workings of the school and in turn, we bestowed knowledge and ability on the ab initio cadets and of course at the same time, we were learning from the instructors and passing their knowledge on.
Best gliding club in the world and all free; now gone.
I have to add that, later in life when I became an ATCO and was lucky enough to be posted to Farnborough to scrounge flights in things like Wessex, Puma, and Lynx helicopters, I found them comparatively easy to handle in the air and during low hover operations and I'm convinced my experience of low speed flight in Air Cadet gliders helped with this.
We could do it all again. Of course being mentored by other Cadets made it all very 'do able', not rocket science. Then we piled them all in the 1 ton Austin and another Cadet drove them off to lunch, frequently the long way round (for fun) to pick up the winch drivers. Our Austin was an open back pick up with a turret hole next to the driver, usually seen with a course Cadet with his body stuck out of it wishing he had a 50 caliber !!.
Never had a reason to unload the spare wheel that was on a ramp behind the cab 'thank goodness'.
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There must still be a 'lesson to be learned' from that (simple but safe) training system 'that was' that could solo a non selected youngster in just over an hours actual flight time** without prescribed classroom work or a set of 'pilots notes'.
I look back in wonder how it 'just worked' and of course when the mainstream RAF cottoned on to the fact that these 'volunteers' were operating without an actual classroom scenario it must have been a bit of a shock.
I know the machines were simple, but did it happen because no one told us it would not work like that. Anyway work it did until someone reinvented the wheel and it fell off. Perhaps it was to do with the activity that made it happen with lots of hands on involvement so you got used to seeing others seemingly getting on with it without much fuss. As an exercise in youth decision making I really think it was incredible and something that stayed with you for ever. I also think that todays 'managers' would be better off given the chance to go through that system that gave us the opportunity to self develop at the right time in life.
** including cable breaks
The change to the raspberry ripple scheme looks dreadful and the safety goggles a joke. At least the MK 8 looked the part even if they were not really needed (other than for photo's) and went well with a soapy hat.
I look back in wonder how it 'just worked' and of course when the mainstream RAF cottoned on to the fact that these 'volunteers' were operating without an actual classroom scenario it must have been a bit of a shock.
I know the machines were simple, but did it happen because no one told us it would not work like that. Anyway work it did until someone reinvented the wheel and it fell off. Perhaps it was to do with the activity that made it happen with lots of hands on involvement so you got used to seeing others seemingly getting on with it without much fuss. As an exercise in youth decision making I really think it was incredible and something that stayed with you for ever. I also think that todays 'managers' would be better off given the chance to go through that system that gave us the opportunity to self develop at the right time in life.
** including cable breaks
The change to the raspberry ripple scheme looks dreadful and the safety goggles a joke. At least the MK 8 looked the part even if they were not really needed (other than for photo's) and went well with a soapy hat.
Fantastic for a 16 year old. Totally convinced me a career in aviation was for me. (Although not in the forces)
Don't forget most cadets did quite a bit of classroom work meandering from Ist Class to staff cadet picking up useful knowledge along the way and though subjects were poured into our lugholes in bite sized chunks they non the less contributed to safe operations of not jut the GS fleet but the AEF Chipmunks as well.
PS out Mk 111's had spoilers 643 and 644 GS
PS out Mk 111's had spoilers 643 and 644 GS
Don't forget most cadets did quite a bit of classroom work meandering from Ist Class to staff cadet picking up useful knowledge along the way and though subjects were poured into our lugholes in bite sized chunks they non the less contributed to safe operations of not jut the GS fleet but the AEF Chipmunks as well.
PS out Mk 111's had spoilers 643 and 644 GS
PS out Mk 111's had spoilers 643 and 644 GS
For most Cadets their first (and only) hands on 'contact' with an aircraft was in the gliding world. It started with getting them out of the hangar and went from there until they were put back later. This was an important part of the operation as after the first day you had covered most of the ground handling and also launching. Remember before control caravans became available there was no airfield facility for signalling or briefing and Cadets were briefed in the cockpit. Then there was the use of BATS which was the primary method of launch control before mounted aldis lights came about. On some airfields you had to have a midfield BAT man to pass on the signals. This was a lonely post usually situated on a high point or possibly an old pill box. I do not think anybody actually died doing this, but I do recall they could be forgotten at times and had to revived with hot drinks. Of course the secret of the whole operation was everyone was involved all the time on some task or other, and before retrieve trolleys were the norm there was lots of walking back with gliders to the launch point. If you were unfortunate enough to have a Sedburgh out on the field when a squall came through then it was festooned with Cadets to hold it down with a couple in the cockpit holding the spoilers out. By the time it came to your turn to fly YOU WERE PART OF THE SYSTEM and knew what to do. Utterly brilliant operation all run by volunteers, and eventually all let down by numpties at head office.
I seem to recall at some time during my proficiency course I was given a typed sheet of multiple choice questions to complete about various scenarios during training.
One of the questions asked you what to do if you had a cable break, the answer being
1 Operate the cable release
2 Hold the stick fully forward
3 Hold the spoilers fully open.
For which you needed 3 hands!!
That was the only written material we were given; we were never given the results and presumably it was just put in your file afterwards (if indeed we had individual files)
One of the questions asked you what to do if you had a cable break, the answer being
1 Operate the cable release
2 Hold the stick fully forward
3 Hold the spoilers fully open.
For which you needed 3 hands!!
That was the only written material we were given; we were never given the results and presumably it was just put in your file afterwards (if indeed we had individual files)