Spitfire Ace - TV
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Read with intrest all the previous posts, and I to feel great programme but its lost its way. Of the 3rd episode did anyone time how much of the programme was spent showing the training aspect. A few comments about RPM, boost, temperatures, "keep the nose up" and " small burst of power" being about it. Some nice aerial shots whilst transiting to the south coast and a wizz over the cliffs (reapeated in case you've missed it the 1st time - in fact there were several repeat shots of various items). Felt the " flying in formation" part was just glossed over, not even a post sortie interview with Dave. What were the problems, what manovoures did you do, did your arms and eyes ache, etc etc. Apart from the intro we never saw Pete Kinsey again!
Its hard work flying close in normally but imagine the thrill of flying a Spitfire in formation with another one!
I read somewhere that Carolyn did some 14hrs of sorties for this series of programmes, wonder what the film companies budget was for all this? I doubt if we've seen more than an actual 30 mins of Grace Spitfire airborne time with even less of that 30mins on the "training".
(No doubt some keen Pruner will give me an exact count to the second in a few minutes to prove me wrong!)
Perhaps "The Spitfire Pilot in the Battle of Britain - Then and Now" might of been a better title.
Its hard work flying close in normally but imagine the thrill of flying a Spitfire in formation with another one!
I read somewhere that Carolyn did some 14hrs of sorties for this series of programmes, wonder what the film companies budget was for all this? I doubt if we've seen more than an actual 30 mins of Grace Spitfire airborne time with even less of that 30mins on the "training".
(No doubt some keen Pruner will give me an exact count to the second in a few minutes to prove me wrong!)
Perhaps "The Spitfire Pilot in the Battle of Britain - Then and Now" might of been a better title.
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BOAC
I was initially pointed towards his book (The Most Dangerous Enemy) because somebody thought it was yet another 'rubbish the RAF' volume saying the Battle was nowhere near as tricky or close-run as legend had it.
The book turned out to be nothing of the sort though it does put paid to some myths. It is without a doubt the finest single volume I've ever read on the Battle with amazingly broad research. Very occasionally it gets a bit dry but is generally far from it, with lots of variety to keep even a casual reader interested.
Highly recommended!
Stephen Bungay impressed me no end with his research. I will make a point of getting a copy of his 2001 book on the history of the Battle of Britain I think
The book turned out to be nothing of the sort though it does put paid to some myths. It is without a doubt the finest single volume I've ever read on the Battle with amazingly broad research. Very occasionally it gets a bit dry but is generally far from it, with lots of variety to keep even a casual reader interested.
Highly recommended!
A good effort so far by C4 but hopefully the last episode will be mostly about Dave flying the Spit as the story of the Battle has been pretty well covered I think.
PS Rallye Driver I think it was the Hurricane that had a nested tube mainspar which is why, until recently, after the original dies were "discovered", there were so few of them flying. The Spit had a fabricated spar which is much easier to rebuild hence their relatively high numbers.
PS Rallye Driver I think it was the Hurricane that had a nested tube mainspar which is why, until recently, after the original dies were "discovered", there were so few of them flying. The Spit had a fabricated spar which is much easier to rebuild hence their relatively high numbers.
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LnS,
Both the Spits I've worked on had nested square-section main spars, built up from the smallest section, heat expanding the next size up, then sliding on to the first.
As the outer cools, it grips the inner very effectively!
ISTR that there is a solid centre near the root, and that the bottom edges of the spar are progressively cut away towards the tip.
I *think* that the Hurri's spars are built up bit I can't swear to it off the top of my head!
Both the Spits I've worked on had nested square-section main spars, built up from the smallest section, heat expanding the next size up, then sliding on to the first.
As the outer cools, it grips the inner very effectively!
ISTR that there is a solid centre near the root, and that the bottom edges of the spar are progressively cut away towards the tip.
I *think* that the Hurri's spars are built up bit I can't swear to it off the top of my head!
Tim Inder I sit corrected!!
I think the problem with the Hurri was that the nested spar sections were hexagonal or octagonal and the drawing dies cost a fortune to make. Now that I think more about it I think the old dies were found but were only suitable as a pattern to make new ones. I can't remember who was the brave chappie who bit the bullet and forked out tomake the new ones.
I think the problem with the Hurri was that the nested spar sections were hexagonal or octagonal and the drawing dies cost a fortune to make. Now that I think more about it I think the old dies were found but were only suitable as a pattern to make new ones. I can't remember who was the brave chappie who bit the bullet and forked out tomake the new ones.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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I think Guy Black found the necessary tools for rebuilding Hawker fuselages in a South African scrapyard, along with the odd bit of Demon - isn't the tooling something to do with tubular fuselage frames which are squared off at the ends? His particular interest is the maginificent range of Hawker biplanes he is slowly bringing back to life. For Hurricanes read Tony Ditheridge at Milden, just across Kent and the Thames (by Hawker) from Guy. I won't talk about structures or techniques any further 'cos I know bu@@er all about it! The absence of Hurricanes in the rebuild market was perhaps more to do with the pre-Russian thaw absence of suitable airframes and the usual preference for Spitfires!
Both Guy and Tony and their teams are magicians!
Both Guy and Tony and their teams are magicians!
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Just watched the last episode. Despite what some say I enjoyed it and I feel it was a lot better than the average of this kind of production. In fact of it's genre it was excellent.
There was a bit more of Dave flying tonight. But the main thrust was again the history. I wonder if that was the original intention. I thought the point was to feature a young guy converting to a Spitfire. But realistically the intricacies of handling and flying a Spitfire may be utterly fascinating to pilots like me. But this is TV and a broad brush must be used and in fact the history was just as fascinating.
The small piece on Richard Hillary and the guinea pigs was sobering. As it happens I have just read 'The Last Enemy' again. It is absolutely to be recommended. There is added poignancy as you read, when you realise that not only did all his friends die but that he too was doomed not to survive the war. The item on his friend Peter Pease was fascinating. Given Hillary's description and obvious admiration of him. It was no surprise. I was pleased see 'Stapme' Stapleton a colleague of his from 603 Squadron alive and well.
I have to say though the highlight of the programme was seeing Pete Brothers fly a Spit again. Brought a lump to my throat that.
I would watch it again because I'm a sucker for the elliptical wing and that sonorous merlin tone.
Well done Dave Mallon and I hope he keeps flying judging from the praise he got.
There was a bit more of Dave flying tonight. But the main thrust was again the history. I wonder if that was the original intention. I thought the point was to feature a young guy converting to a Spitfire. But realistically the intricacies of handling and flying a Spitfire may be utterly fascinating to pilots like me. But this is TV and a broad brush must be used and in fact the history was just as fascinating.
The small piece on Richard Hillary and the guinea pigs was sobering. As it happens I have just read 'The Last Enemy' again. It is absolutely to be recommended. There is added poignancy as you read, when you realise that not only did all his friends die but that he too was doomed not to survive the war. The item on his friend Peter Pease was fascinating. Given Hillary's description and obvious admiration of him. It was no surprise. I was pleased see 'Stapme' Stapleton a colleague of his from 603 Squadron alive and well.
I have to say though the highlight of the programme was seeing Pete Brothers fly a Spit again. Brought a lump to my throat that.
I would watch it again because I'm a sucker for the elliptical wing and that sonorous merlin tone.
Well done Dave Mallon and I hope he keeps flying judging from the praise he got.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Blast! Late night at the office (aided and abetted by the connivance of South Central) made me miss it...
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Excellent programme.
I was in floods when Pete Brothers went up in ML407, it was as if he had never been away. A very special moment.
In the words of Bob Doe(?) "all we want is to be remembered". That you will be sir, that you will be.
As Carolyn Grace said "you have my aeroplane and its an honour"
If anyone is interested details of the Grace Spitfire supporters club can be found Here
I was in floods when Pete Brothers went up in ML407, it was as if he had never been away. A very special moment.
In the words of Bob Doe(?) "all we want is to be remembered". That you will be sir, that you will be.
As Carolyn Grace said "you have my aeroplane and its an honour"
If anyone is interested details of the Grace Spitfire supporters club can be found Here
"Trust Me"
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"I was in floods when Pete Brothers went up in ML407"
Me too MOTF, a very special moment.
I think 'the broad brush' was, for us flyers and aviation nuts, unfortunate. But for the general public I hope it made good viewing. Strange how the emphasis swung from the students to the history!!
However, there are more flyer orientated video's available on the Spitfire -The Pilot's Eye, for instance.
Superb series and I'm sure it will be out on video soon!! The Dambusters programme was -have a copy if anybody wants to borrow, or contribution to the PPruNe fund??
DOC
Me too MOTF, a very special moment.
I think 'the broad brush' was, for us flyers and aviation nuts, unfortunate. But for the general public I hope it made good viewing. Strange how the emphasis swung from the students to the history!!
However, there are more flyer orientated video's available on the Spitfire -The Pilot's Eye, for instance.
Superb series and I'm sure it will be out on video soon!! The Dambusters programme was -have a copy if anybody wants to borrow, or contribution to the PPruNe fund??
DOC
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Don't worry Treadders I have the whole series nailed.
Quite the best of the four I think. It really was most interesting. The stories were very good and bought back many memories of my young days living 3 miles from Croydon at the time of the battle. An 8 year old, soon to be 9, watching the dogfights is a memory etched in my mind.
I met some of the pilots who were at Croydon at the time, and it is magical to be in their presence. They are true heroes of our time. Many other heroes came after them, but MANY of them wouldn't be heroes had the BoB not been won!
Pete Brothers must have had memories rushing back too. What a moment - and yes I shed some too.
Well, Dave Mallon learned what it was like and I hope he continues to enjoy his aeros. He can quite rightly claim that he was certainly taught by a master.
Quite the best of the four I think. It really was most interesting. The stories were very good and bought back many memories of my young days living 3 miles from Croydon at the time of the battle. An 8 year old, soon to be 9, watching the dogfights is a memory etched in my mind.
I met some of the pilots who were at Croydon at the time, and it is magical to be in their presence. They are true heroes of our time. Many other heroes came after them, but MANY of them wouldn't be heroes had the BoB not been won!
Pete Brothers must have had memories rushing back too. What a moment - and yes I shed some too.
Well, Dave Mallon learned what it was like and I hope he continues to enjoy his aeros. He can quite rightly claim that he was certainly taught by a master.
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For anyone interested in Spitfires, and OU-V in particular I can recommend the video 'Perfect Lady / Going Solo'. The first part shows Nick Grace's rebuild of OU-V from a few tea chests of corroded parts into a magnificent Spitfire. The second part is poignant indeed and picks up the story after Nick's death in a car crash.
Carlolyn bravely decides to learn to fly the Grace Spitfire under the tutelage of Pete Kynsey. Very moving. Highly recommended.
SSD
Carlolyn bravely decides to learn to fly the Grace Spitfire under the tutelage of Pete Kynsey. Very moving. Highly recommended.
SSD
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Excellent and moving series, far above the average WW2 documentaries on broadcast television. Should be shown to ALL schoolchildren as part of their history lessons.
My only criticism is that the modern footage, although the filming was excellent, lacked any real story. It would have benn nice to see at least some attempt at a combat scenario for the young pilot, although I'm sure insurance would have been a problem.
I was lucky enough to have filmed an air to air dogfight sequence between MH434 and 109 "Black 10" for a Discovery Channel series, it certainly gave me a tiny glimpse into what the real thing must have been like.
My only criticism is that the modern footage, although the filming was excellent, lacked any real story. It would have benn nice to see at least some attempt at a combat scenario for the young pilot, although I'm sure insurance would have been a problem.
I was lucky enough to have filmed an air to air dogfight sequence between MH434 and 109 "Black 10" for a Discovery Channel series, it certainly gave me a tiny glimpse into what the real thing must have been like.
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What a magnificent ending to one of the great programmes on TV, it certainly brought a lump to my throat when the Guinea Pig Club members were shown as I met one such member whilst I was in PMRAF Halton hospital.
The eyes were welling up by this time but as MOTF said when Pete Brothers sat in the rear seat
well that was it, even my wife joined in.
To Channel 4 and the team who produced the programme a great big thank you.
The eyes were welling up by this time but as MOTF said when Pete Brothers sat in the rear seat
well that was it, even my wife joined in.To Channel 4 and the team who produced the programme a great big thank you.
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Pete Brothers' hop in the Spitfire is typical of how ML407 has been put to the best possible use. Nick Grace took many such folk up in this wonderful Spitfire, memorably the first fighter pilot to fly her in anger; Johnnie Houlton. Carolyn also deserves the greatest praise and admiration not only for taking on the task and responsibility of keeping her in the best possible condition (and doing it very well), but operating her in the best possible way (IMO) by making her so accessible to so many, most especially by giving people like Johnnie Houlton, Jackie Moggridge, Pete Brothers and many others, just one more chance to fly the Spitfire.
It is this last aspect which drives me to support ML407 with so much enthusiasm. I have to say that the small amount I have been able to 'contribute' has brought the most satisfaction/£ I can remember, not just in the wonderful stuff I have bought, but the chance to meet people with a similar passion for Spitfires, especially this one. The videos are indeed worth every penny and the other merchandise is very good quality and value.
There was a Guinnea Pig called Ralph who became a personal hero of mine from the stories he told me about the war. He inspired most of the passion I have for flight, much of the respect and admiration I have for combat pilots and what they and other soldiers did for us, and gave me my first lesson in how to look beyond a person's appearance and appreciate the real person behind. Three very special gifts from a very special man.
This last episode did seem to put the whole series in perspective. Shots of Dave and ML407 were tantalisingly rare and left me pining for more, but the rest of the story was anything but fill. For most people free of a chronic love for flight, it was a compelling insight into the BoB. For me, it was especially rewarding.
It is this last aspect which drives me to support ML407 with so much enthusiasm. I have to say that the small amount I have been able to 'contribute' has brought the most satisfaction/£ I can remember, not just in the wonderful stuff I have bought, but the chance to meet people with a similar passion for Spitfires, especially this one. The videos are indeed worth every penny and the other merchandise is very good quality and value.
There was a Guinnea Pig called Ralph who became a personal hero of mine from the stories he told me about the war. He inspired most of the passion I have for flight, much of the respect and admiration I have for combat pilots and what they and other soldiers did for us, and gave me my first lesson in how to look beyond a person's appearance and appreciate the real person behind. Three very special gifts from a very special man.
This last episode did seem to put the whole series in perspective. Shots of Dave and ML407 were tantalisingly rare and left me pining for more, but the rest of the story was anything but fill. For most people free of a chronic love for flight, it was a compelling insight into the BoB. For me, it was especially rewarding.
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I've only just been able to watch my recording of the last episode - marvellous stuff, and tremendously moving.
I hope the series gets a well-earned and much deserved repeat showing later in the year around BoB Day, and that it encourages more people to pay their respects to all those servicemen and women who so richly deserve our thanks and rememberance.
I hope the series gets a well-earned and much deserved repeat showing later in the year around BoB Day, and that it encourages more people to pay their respects to all those servicemen and women who so richly deserve our thanks and rememberance.
Just another number
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I posted on the 'Where are they now' forum asking if anyone knew what happened to Geoffrey Wellum after the war. Phreegreens replied that he thought that he might have been one of the BofB pilots interviewed in the programme. Can someone please tell me whether this is true?
I'm sure that there cannot be any aviation loving person who has not read 'First Light' by Geoffrey Wellum, but if so, it is his account of his training to fly in the RAF, and joining an operational Spitfire squdron in 1940 at the age of eighteen.
Airclues
I'm sure that there cannot be any aviation loving person who has not read 'First Light' by Geoffrey Wellum, but if so, it is his account of his training to fly in the RAF, and joining an operational Spitfire squdron in 1940 at the age of eighteen.
Airclues