Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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I always knew it as Hellermann oil not Hellerine.
Any guesses as to what this is? It was issued to us in 1964 at Finningley - 230 OCU.
It was a special tool for tightening Panduit straps and then cutting the end off. Nylon cable ties were invented by Panduit and were just then being introduced into the RAF.
Any guesses as to what this is? It was issued to us in 1964 at Finningley - 230 OCU.
It was a special tool for tightening Panduit straps and then cutting the end off. Nylon cable ties were invented by Panduit and were just then being introduced into the RAF.
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Originally Posted by alisoncc
I always knew it as Hellermann oil not Hellerine.
As my 30 year old bottle of Hellerine is now too faded to photograph;
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Frozen Pitot incident circa late '60s?
Wonder if anyone can recall an incident in the late '60s regarding an incident of pitot icing?
IIRC a Vulcan on the low level route was flying up Loch Linnhe when the Nav Rad saw the doppler groundspeed was down near 115 kts but the ASIs read 250. Fortunately the crew assumed the doppler was right and affected a recovery.
It would have been easy to assume that the doppler had simply unlocked and drifted down.
I seem to recall that the pitot heating had been left off. I have a vague memory of the nav team but won't speculate further.
Any ideas?
IIRC a Vulcan on the low level route was flying up Loch Linnhe when the Nav Rad saw the doppler groundspeed was down near 115 kts but the ASIs read 250. Fortunately the crew assumed the doppler was right and affected a recovery.
It would have been easy to assume that the doppler had simply unlocked and drifted down.
I seem to recall that the pitot heating had been left off. I have a vague memory of the nav team but won't speculate further.
Any ideas?
bits
Hellerine, tintalite and trying to write cable idents onto rubber sleeves with sharpened matches! Those were the days! It, and other mentions, brought back some memories of RAF Lincolnshire along with the Rutland annex. Back in the late 60’s I was a Linney at Cottesmore. In 1968 we were told the Vulcans were off to Cyprus in 1969. About that time it seemed to me that all our shiny new ones were then swapped for the cast – offs that Waddington did not want.
Ref post 1666; it was also evident that the Waddington Aircraft had a different fit to the Cottesmore ones. Don’t know the exact difference as I was a fresh faced electrician training to be a weight lifter, contortionist and acrobat by doing TRU, Frequency Changer and Battery changes whilst balancing on top of a set of wobbly steps. There seemed to be permutations of plates fitted between engine pairs with domes or not fitted on them.
Tenuous connection - I also did a spell in the Window bay. The Type 26 was absolutely brilliant for decorating Christmas trees by the way! Many years later, when prepping the Aircraft for the Falklands, I saw we were still using it. Very surprised that War window (tin box, parachute etc) wasn’t used. It wasn’t as if any other Aircraft had the capability to deploy it – the Window boxe containers were enormous! Talking of which, hands up all those who managed to put the dustbin lid under the port boxes orifices whilst watching the bundles drop out of the starboard ones!
QRA seemed to come round quite often and was a real bore. One time there was a need to replace the Rover (AAPP) on one of the Aircraft. It was decided that it would be done on the Pan. The guys came over from the Line to do it and I went over to have a look / gain experience / stay awake. I became involved by operating the mini-hoist. The old Rover came out OK but the new one was a bit of a problem. The Sootie had to put a pip pin in to secure the Rover and this was located right on top. It was a case of almost but not quite. So I was asked to wind the mini-hoist until the clutch ‘broke’.
Still not quite high enough. Again I was asked to do it and this time the cable broke!
The Rover dropped down, bounced off the rear tyres and rolled 20 feet away. A stunned silence! Luckily for the Sootie all he experienced was ripped overalls. So the ‘lets do the job in QRA to save time’ ended up as an Aircraft swap at stupid o’clock.
Ref post 1684; don’t know about Pitot heads icing up but I did once see a RAT that had become a block of ice. It was a scheduled RAT drop and when he came back we had freezing fog. Don’t know if a couple of circuits were done but, after I marshalled him onto the Pan, I saw that the RAT blades were fused with ice. It would have been no use in an emergency!
Ref 1643; the delights of entering an empty Bomb Bay (seemed to spent a lot of time playing with the Artificial feel units as I recall) knew no bounds compared with squirming passed one fitted with O and / or A tanks. One Chief I knew was very good at diagnosis from afar and excellent at delegation for defects requiring Bomb Bay access. How can I put this? I think it would be fair to say that he would have had trouble entering it without any extra tanks to hinder his progress.
And lastly. One of the strangest things I ever did was wiring up an angle poise light at the 6th seat position. A bed was also laid out over the bomb aimers position. This was for an Air Officer allegedly going to America for a meeting but, we heard, in reality it was a fishing trip. Anyone know if this was true? I reckon it was mid/late ‘68.
Happy days!
Ref post 1666; it was also evident that the Waddington Aircraft had a different fit to the Cottesmore ones. Don’t know the exact difference as I was a fresh faced electrician training to be a weight lifter, contortionist and acrobat by doing TRU, Frequency Changer and Battery changes whilst balancing on top of a set of wobbly steps. There seemed to be permutations of plates fitted between engine pairs with domes or not fitted on them.
Tenuous connection - I also did a spell in the Window bay. The Type 26 was absolutely brilliant for decorating Christmas trees by the way! Many years later, when prepping the Aircraft for the Falklands, I saw we were still using it. Very surprised that War window (tin box, parachute etc) wasn’t used. It wasn’t as if any other Aircraft had the capability to deploy it – the Window boxe containers were enormous! Talking of which, hands up all those who managed to put the dustbin lid under the port boxes orifices whilst watching the bundles drop out of the starboard ones!
QRA seemed to come round quite often and was a real bore. One time there was a need to replace the Rover (AAPP) on one of the Aircraft. It was decided that it would be done on the Pan. The guys came over from the Line to do it and I went over to have a look / gain experience / stay awake. I became involved by operating the mini-hoist. The old Rover came out OK but the new one was a bit of a problem. The Sootie had to put a pip pin in to secure the Rover and this was located right on top. It was a case of almost but not quite. So I was asked to wind the mini-hoist until the clutch ‘broke’.
Still not quite high enough. Again I was asked to do it and this time the cable broke!
The Rover dropped down, bounced off the rear tyres and rolled 20 feet away. A stunned silence! Luckily for the Sootie all he experienced was ripped overalls. So the ‘lets do the job in QRA to save time’ ended up as an Aircraft swap at stupid o’clock. Ref post 1684; don’t know about Pitot heads icing up but I did once see a RAT that had become a block of ice. It was a scheduled RAT drop and when he came back we had freezing fog. Don’t know if a couple of circuits were done but, after I marshalled him onto the Pan, I saw that the RAT blades were fused with ice. It would have been no use in an emergency!
Ref 1643; the delights of entering an empty Bomb Bay (seemed to spent a lot of time playing with the Artificial feel units as I recall) knew no bounds compared with squirming passed one fitted with O and / or A tanks. One Chief I knew was very good at diagnosis from afar and excellent at delegation for defects requiring Bomb Bay access. How can I put this? I think it would be fair to say that he would have had trouble entering it without any extra tanks to hinder his progress.
And lastly. One of the strangest things I ever did was wiring up an angle poise light at the 6th seat position. A bed was also laid out over the bomb aimers position. This was for an Air Officer allegedly going to America for a meeting but, we heard, in reality it was a fishing trip. Anyone know if this was true? I reckon it was mid/late ‘68.
Happy days!
Last edited by morton; 30th Jan 2012 at 01:08. Reason: Increasing font size - it's an age thing!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In 1968 we were told the Vulcans were off to Cyprus in 1969. About that time it seemed to me that all our shiny new ones were then swapped for the cast – offs that Waddington did not want.
The Far East role was transferred to the Waddington wing. They were allocated the 301 engined aircraft as they had more powerful engines and better suited to the higher temperatures out there.
the Falklands, I saw we were still using it. Very surprised that War window (tin box, parachute etc) wasn’t used. It wasn’t as if any other Aircraft had the capability to deploy it
Type 150 DAW. The idea was to sow random bundles at random points behind all the aircraft as they exited Russian airspace and confuse picture compliation. With a solitary Vulcan it would simply have pointed the way home.
Ref post 1684; don’t know about Pitot heads icing up but I did once see a RAT that had become a block of ice. It was a scheduled RAT drop and when he came back we had freezing fog. Don’t know if a couple of circuits were done but, after I marshalled him onto the Pan, I saw that the RAT blades were fused with ice. It would have been no use in an emergency!
The RATs job had been done. It was ineffective below 25,000 ft unlike the Victor 2 which worked at low level.
And lastly. One of the strangest things I ever did was wiring up an angle poise light at the 6th seat position. A bed was also laid out over the bomb aimers position. This was for an Air Officer allegedly going to America for a meeting but, we heard, in reality it was a fishing trip. Anyone know if this was true? I reckon it was mid/late ‘68.
Happy days!
The Far East role was transferred to the Waddington wing. They were allocated the 301 engined aircraft as they had more powerful engines and better suited to the higher temperatures out there.
the Falklands, I saw we were still using it. Very surprised that War window (tin box, parachute etc) wasn’t used. It wasn’t as if any other Aircraft had the capability to deploy it
Type 150 DAW. The idea was to sow random bundles at random points behind all the aircraft as they exited Russian airspace and confuse picture compliation. With a solitary Vulcan it would simply have pointed the way home.
Ref post 1684; don’t know about Pitot heads icing up but I did once see a RAT that had become a block of ice. It was a scheduled RAT drop and when he came back we had freezing fog. Don’t know if a couple of circuits were done but, after I marshalled him onto the Pan, I saw that the RAT blades were fused with ice. It would have been no use in an emergency!
The RATs job had been done. It was ineffective below 25,000 ft unlike the Victor 2 which worked at low level.
And lastly. One of the strangest things I ever did was wiring up an angle poise light at the 6th seat position. A bed was also laid out over the bomb aimers position. This was for an Air Officer allegedly going to America for a meeting but, we heard, in reality it was a fishing trip. Anyone know if this was true? I reckon it was mid/late ‘68.
Happy days!
Mountbatten was not best pleased and had to cancel his trip to prove the story was false. He let his displeasure be known; it didn't help the stn cdr's career. To be honest, meeting the USA chiefs of staff would have been a god thing even if there was a large element of socialising as they would all be free of the direct pressures of work.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 30th Jan 2012 at 09:46.
Thanks P-N, that has cleared up a few things I have wondered about for all these years! I liked your freudian slip meeting the USA chiefs of staff would have been a god thing. Having read Mountbattens biography you were pretty accurate!
Last edited by morton; 30th Jan 2012 at 12:05. Reason: trying to get italics for the quote
Cunning Artificer
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Talking of which, hands up all those who managed to put the dustbin lid under the port boxes orifices whilst watching the bundles drop out of the starboard ones!
Talking of Hellerine, we used all sorts of weird processes back then including a connector that used a little insertion tool and special lubricant for inserting contacts. The instructions informed one to "lubricate the tip of the tool prior to insertion", which is fair enough but then went on to say "the tool should continue to be be rotated in a clockwise direction, even when withdrawing from the hole"
I never managed the latter contortion until my first visit to Thailand a few years later.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I see the Eagle River lodge opened in 1968 Eagle River Trout Lodge - Fly Fishing Labrador, Canada so I can understand why he was so peed off.
I believe Mountbatten had declined crew drills and a parachute on the grounds that when his time was up . . . I also think he would have had a steward along to serve him which could have meant an 8-man crew if M did not use the 7th seat.
I believe Mountbatten had declined crew drills and a parachute on the grounds that when his time was up . . . I also think he would have had a steward along to serve him which could have meant an 8-man crew if M did not use the 7th seat.
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With Mountbatten as CDS, if the trip included an official meeting with the US Chiefs of Staff at an "Eagle River Conference" he could have used one of the VIP Comets at Lyneham. Their movements weren't exactly in the public domain so the trip would have remained both private and justifiable. So, why would he choose to fly in the cramped cabin of a Vulcan? There is more to it than meets the eye.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BS, there may be many reasons, I don't know. The Vulcan was just about to finish as our deterrent. It was also flavour of the month for transatlantics. There were Air Officers doing it although they tended to have a window seat. It may not have been in the same class as a VIP Comet but it could knock a good hour off the flight out and a bit more on the way back.
It was military and macho and could have been a case of one-upmanship.
It would certainly have been more covert (in theory) than Lyneham although I would agreen that logic was flawed. At Lyneham it would just have been another VIP flight to out-of-sight, out-of-mind. At cottesmore it was anything but.
It was military and macho and could have been a case of one-upmanship.
It would certainly have been more covert (in theory) than Lyneham although I would agreen that logic was flawed. At Lyneham it would just have been another VIP flight to out-of-sight, out-of-mind. At cottesmore it was anything but.
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CDS Trip in 1968
Chums,
I just have to get in on this riveting chat ref CDS, between Morton, Pontius etc.
My recollection and log book seem to be at variance with your some of your thoughts. I was at Cottesmore on 35 Sqn Vulcans as Nav Rad Leader on the Sqn. It was quite normal to have a 'VIP Fit' for those 'on high' to travel in the Vulcan. A small light/angle poise was put in the rear of the cockpit around the 6th seat area and the visual bomb aimer's position for the VIP, plus a small table affair for reading and writing and somewhere to lie down. The Air Officer would, dependent on circumstances and his piloting ability on the Vulcan, sit in either the 6th seat or co-pilot's seat for take off and land. During the trip he would also, again how it was felt, sit in the 6th seat, co-pilot's seat or lie in the nose. The single Crew Chief travelled in the 7th seat.
I can't comment on the Mountbatten story. However, Morton is absolutely correct in Cottesmore, the year and the month (not America) for my story as I took the CDS out to RCAF Goose Bay in the middle of1968.
We had a pre-flight meal with the CDS, Sir Charles Elworthy, the Stn Cdr and Wg Cdr Ops in the Cottesmore Aircrew Buffet, consisting of a steak meal and very good red wine! We took off in Vulcan XH562, on 15 July 1968 - 5hrs 5 mins to Goose. On landing Sir Charles was flown up to his meeting and whatever else was planned for him. We flew the BC Can low level routes on the next few days and returned with him on 25 July 1968 - 4hrs 35mins.
As an aside it was normal for us, as all V-Force crews did, to buy frozen salmon from the RAF Goose Detachment and have it stowed in an unheated compartment in the aircraft (not the bomb bay that was heated) to keep it frozen on the trip home and thus get a lovely salmon to use when we wanted. On this particular occasion, when we, as crew, asked to purchase our salmon, we got the brush off from a new regime at Goose who said that we as crew couldn't have any salmon but we were to carry a salmon back for the CDS whether we liked it or not. To say that we were all unhappy is an understatement. However, to get us some sort of satisfaction we asked the groundcrew at Goose, on this occasion, to put the CDS's salmon in the bomb bay. Somehow or other the bomb bay temp accidentally got turned up on the trip home!
I just have to get in on this riveting chat ref CDS, between Morton, Pontius etc.
My recollection and log book seem to be at variance with your some of your thoughts. I was at Cottesmore on 35 Sqn Vulcans as Nav Rad Leader on the Sqn. It was quite normal to have a 'VIP Fit' for those 'on high' to travel in the Vulcan. A small light/angle poise was put in the rear of the cockpit around the 6th seat area and the visual bomb aimer's position for the VIP, plus a small table affair for reading and writing and somewhere to lie down. The Air Officer would, dependent on circumstances and his piloting ability on the Vulcan, sit in either the 6th seat or co-pilot's seat for take off and land. During the trip he would also, again how it was felt, sit in the 6th seat, co-pilot's seat or lie in the nose. The single Crew Chief travelled in the 7th seat.
I can't comment on the Mountbatten story. However, Morton is absolutely correct in Cottesmore, the year and the month (not America) for my story as I took the CDS out to RCAF Goose Bay in the middle of1968.
We had a pre-flight meal with the CDS, Sir Charles Elworthy, the Stn Cdr and Wg Cdr Ops in the Cottesmore Aircrew Buffet, consisting of a steak meal and very good red wine! We took off in Vulcan XH562, on 15 July 1968 - 5hrs 5 mins to Goose. On landing Sir Charles was flown up to his meeting and whatever else was planned for him. We flew the BC Can low level routes on the next few days and returned with him on 25 July 1968 - 4hrs 35mins.
As an aside it was normal for us, as all V-Force crews did, to buy frozen salmon from the RAF Goose Detachment and have it stowed in an unheated compartment in the aircraft (not the bomb bay that was heated) to keep it frozen on the trip home and thus get a lovely salmon to use when we wanted. On this particular occasion, when we, as crew, asked to purchase our salmon, we got the brush off from a new regime at Goose who said that we as crew couldn't have any salmon but we were to carry a salmon back for the CDS whether we liked it or not. To say that we were all unhappy is an understatement. However, to get us some sort of satisfaction we asked the groundcrew at Goose, on this occasion, to put the CDS's salmon in the bomb bay. Somehow or other the bomb bay temp accidentally got turned up on the trip home!
As an aside it was normal for us, as all V-Force crews did, to buy frozen salmon from the RAF Goose Detachment and have it stowed in an unheated compartment in the aircraft
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nav Rad (DM?), you are undoubtedly correct in what you say. Checking CDS, Mountbatten relinquished that position in Jul '65. Now I made the mistake of assuming that the 1968 date for the Eagle River Lodge miust have been the date for Mountbatten. I should have checked.
I was at Cottesmore then but could not remember for a fact if it was when I was there.
Morton is also clearly referring to your trip.
The Mountbatten incident was also true and given the dates - Cottesmore '65 must have been the event and planned as a swan song to say goodbye too. Your Jul 68 date makes it probable that it was Mountbatten's planned farewell in Jul 65.
I was at Cottesmore then but could not remember for a fact if it was when I was there.
Morton is also clearly referring to your trip.
The Mountbatten incident was also true and given the dates - Cottesmore '65 must have been the event and planned as a swan song to say goodbye too. Your Jul 68 date makes it probable that it was Mountbatten's planned farewell in Jul 65.
Just to let you all know how the bookings for the V-Force Reunion are going. So far we have had over 300 indicate their intention to come, which I am pretty sure is more than we had at this stage last time, so it looks like the event is going to be very well attended. We will be updating the website in just over a couple of weeks with the latest info on events at the reunion, and with a list of the guys (and girls) who will be manning the signing in tables. At the same time we will give details on how to book for the evening event, but I must stress it's no good emailing about that yet, we won't be ready to take firm bookings until the website update.
I notice that this time we have had a very good uptake from groundcrew, but a noticeable drop in the number of notifications from aircrew. Of course if you are not intending going to the evening function there is nothing to stop you just turning up on the day, but it would help us judge numbers if you could let us know in advance. So come on pilots, navs and AEOs, get on the website and fill in the Enquiry Form and fire it off to us ASAP.
See you there.
I notice that this time we have had a very good uptake from groundcrew, but a noticeable drop in the number of notifications from aircrew. Of course if you are not intending going to the evening function there is nothing to stop you just turning up on the day, but it would help us judge numbers if you could let us know in advance. So come on pilots, navs and AEOs, get on the website and fill in the Enquiry Form and fire it off to us ASAP.
See you there.
V Force reunion website update
Just to let you know that the V-Force Reunion website has just been updated. For those of you who are coming to the reunion the most important new information is on the Saturday evening reception. If you are planning to go to this function please check out the website as soon as you can and you will find instructions on how to book. Dont delay, as the evening function was fully booked on both previous reunions.
For fans of 558, the new photo on the website was taken by reunion organiser and former Vulcan nav Don Chadwick from a lakeland hillside as she flew over Windermere at low level a while back. Even a dyed in the wool Victor fan like me has to admit it's a super pic!
Just to let you know that the V-Force Reunion website has just been updated. For those of you who are coming to the reunion the most important new information is on the Saturday evening reception. If you are planning to go to this function please check out the website as soon as you can and you will find instructions on how to book. Dont delay, as the evening function was fully booked on both previous reunions.
For fans of 558, the new photo on the website was taken by reunion organiser and former Vulcan nav Don Chadwick from a lakeland hillside as she flew over Windermere at low level a while back. Even a dyed in the wool Victor fan like me has to admit it's a super pic!
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Max rate descent
As a hairy armed crewchief and not knowing about these things,we arrived above Oha-u at about 40000 ft due to a curtain of cu-nimbs surrounding the islands.
I was perched on the ladder between the seats -as one did ,-when the boss elected to do one.
The amazing thing was that I was totally unaware of any change of attitude until ,looking straight ahead you could see the island in plan view.
We must have been near vertical...so I thought I'd better get strapped in.
I often wonder about the captain -think it was F B -bound to go far and a diamond geezer.
I was perched on the ladder between the seats -as one did ,-when the boss elected to do one.
The amazing thing was that I was totally unaware of any change of attitude until ,looking straight ahead you could see the island in plan view.
We must have been near vertical...so I thought I'd better get strapped in.
I often wonder about the captain -think it was F B -bound to go far and a diamond geezer.
The latest update to the V-Force Reunion website has just gone online. The main news is that we are very pleased that Vulcan XH 588, which is is scheduled to fly its first airtest of the year on the 28th April, is planning to overfly the museum at some stage during the flight. No details of timings as yet, but if you want to see her in the air make sure you come along to the reunion. We're also getting a visit from the BBMF Dakota, and there will be scale flying models of all three V's doing a flying demonstration, so there will be plenty to see in the air as well as on the ground.
All you need to know is on the site, including how to book for the evening function, so don't delay, only a month to go now!
All you need to know is on the site, including how to book for the evening function, so don't delay, only a month to go now!
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Eagle river jollies.
Just picked up this long lead thread about the vip trips to Eagle River.
As a coopted crew chief I was invited to "Flunky" for an AVM "Don't tell him your name P---"
No extra staff....just P---ey in the sixth seat and YT pandering to his every need in what they laughingly called the 7th. Never had an 8th to my knowledge.
Invited to the pre-briefing in the aircrew feeder, I remember the CO going on at great length about what container the strawberries and cream should be served in....cut glass or mess silver. Decisions-decisions..expect he got a gong for that!
As a coopted crew chief I was invited to "Flunky" for an AVM "Don't tell him your name P---"
No extra staff....just P---ey in the sixth seat and YT pandering to his every need in what they laughingly called the 7th. Never had an 8th to my knowledge.
Invited to the pre-briefing in the aircrew feeder, I remember the CO going on at great length about what container the strawberries and cream should be served in....cut glass or mess silver. Decisions-decisions..expect he got a gong for that!
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The Falklands Most Daring Raid
The Falklands Most Daring Raid .1 of 3.
This gripping film tells the humorous yet heroic story of how a crumbling, Cold War-era Vulcan flew the then-longest-range bombing mission in history and how a Second World War vintage bomb changed the outcome of the Falklands War. Yet astonishingly, this story of one of the RAF's greatest modern feats has been downplayed into near obscurity by history. On 30 April 1982, the RAF launched a secret mission: to bomb Port Stanley's runway, putting it out of action for Argentine fighter jets. The safety of the British Task Force depended on its success. However, the RAF could only get a single Vulcan 8000 miles south to the Falklands, because just one bomber needed an aerial fleet of 13 Victor tanker planes to refuel it throughout the 16-hour round-trip. From start to finish, the seemingly impossible mission was a comedy of errors, held together by pluck and ingenuity.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b0_1332196120
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c41_1332197703
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d37_1332198290
This gripping film tells the humorous yet heroic story of how a crumbling, Cold War-era Vulcan flew the then-longest-range bombing mission in history and how a Second World War vintage bomb changed the outcome of the Falklands War. Yet astonishingly, this story of one of the RAF's greatest modern feats has been downplayed into near obscurity by history. On 30 April 1982, the RAF launched a secret mission: to bomb Port Stanley's runway, putting it out of action for Argentine fighter jets. The safety of the British Task Force depended on its success. However, the RAF could only get a single Vulcan 8000 miles south to the Falklands, because just one bomber needed an aerial fleet of 13 Victor tanker planes to refuel it throughout the 16-hour round-trip. From start to finish, the seemingly impossible mission was a comedy of errors, held together by pluck and ingenuity.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b0_1332196120
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c41_1332197703
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d37_1332198290