Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)

[forget]

………… in the bomb bay changing an upper anti-collision beacon.

Must’ve been after my time. Something very Monty Python about this. Let’s see. Quick Reaction Alert, fully armed nuclear bomber, low level camouflaged, Electronic Counter Measures equipped. Take it off-line (one bomber down) because the red flashing thingy on top, so people can see it, isn’t working.

And ‘Nez’ with the hammer must have been Jim Nesbitt.

[forget]

Some detailed photographs here of XM-573 at the SAC Museum, Omaha, Ne.

Wadpol won't bring this one back to pristine

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...2/walk148b.htm

[Goer Round]

I'm not really sure why we give away our heritage to other countries who have no particular ties to the item and let it rot away.

The same holds good for 2 Gresley A4s (Dwight D Eisenhower and Dominion of Canada) which are dressed in non-authentic liveries and unkempt and uncared for in the US and Canada. At least with heavy metal steam locomotives they can be brought back to running order relatively cheaply.

[Blacksheep]

Something very Monty Python about this...

"Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" and off they'd go, taxying down to the runway threshold with all nav lights on, anti-colls flashing and landing lights ablaze. I'm surprised we didn't fit them with extra loud 'Baa-Boo' sirens as well. The whole RAF seemed like Monty Python's Flying Circus most of the time. Those public relations scrambles were the biggest Monty Python joke. Freshly painted bombers lined up on parade on the ORP, with the ground crew dressed in white overalls and polished boots. What a load of bull****!

On one VIP "Scramble" (I think it was when the Queen Mum presented 44 (Rhodesia) with a new Standard ) 44(R) still had B1As and I was still trying to pull out the port side Simstart cables when he started rolling. We called it "wheel dancing" because you stood on the wheels to reach the plugs. It got too dodgy so I baled out with one cable still in place. The aircraft towed the Simstart Trolley out onto the runway until the cable eventually gave way and off he went down the runway with the trolley heading for the Sleaford road. Fortunately he was the last to roll, but I trust the VIPs, Gentlemen of The Press and invited guests were suitably impressed.

[BEagle]

So, you compromised the safety of an aircraft and crew during a QRA scramble, eh? Bet that went down well in the Cold War - was there an inquiry to work out what had happened?

Most of the groundcrew on 35 Sqn in 1977 would have died of shock if they'd been told to wear white overalls and polished boots!

[Pontius Navigator]

Blacksheep

"Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" and off they'd go, taxying down to the runway threshold with all nav lights on, anti-colls flashing and landing lights ablaze. I'm surprised we didn't fit them with extra loud 'Baa-Boo' sirens as well. The whole RAF seemed like Monty Python's Flying Circus most of the time. Those public relations scrambles were the biggest Monty Python joke. Freshly painted bombers lined up on parade on the ORP, with the ground crew dressed in white overalls and polished boots. What a load of bull****!

An element of truth here except we never heard "Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!" The box would squawk and we were up. Then "Attention atten t i o n .........." and we had gone. The Tower used to fire different coloured vereys at us to signify the required state which could have changed even as we drove down. Good shot one day and the 35 sqn wagon collected a RED under the car. Thereafter they were told to fire away from the cars!

On one VIP "Scramble"

and there were many, they always got airborne but not in the way Mr Avro intended. A proper scramble would advance from cockpit readiness power on to engines start and scramble. A VIP Mass Rapid would advance from cockpit readiness power off to scramble with engines running up as we moved but no instruments as the power had not been on. More than one aircraft got airborne on less than 4 engines. Remember one scramble at Finningly were a Mark 1a got airborne on 2 with the 3rd thrusting as he cleared the airfield.

BEagle,

Most of the groundcrew on 35 Sqn in 1977 would have died of shock if they'd been told to wear white overalls and polished boots!

You are showing your youth.

Do you remember AVM Parks in the BoB Film? White flying suit? Ground crew wore whites like that We had 4 flying suits. Two were heavish summer flying suits in light blue (Mk 2s). One was Temeperate climate thin slate grey (Mk 4) and similar cloth to the later Winter Flying Suits (Mk 3). And we also had a 'proper' winter flying suit. This abomination was issued as a pair of over trousers with detachable braces and a long belted parka with a cheap wollen liner. The parka was loosely stitched to the trousers so that we could separate them and do some creative tailoring during EinE. Everyone separated them and wore the parka as a rain proof - scruffy wasn't the word.

Anyway our staish, Mr Pastry, decreed that one Mk 2 flying suit was to be properly badged and used for day to day flying so we were smartly turned out in case visitors saw us. The second was to be kept for 'best' when VIPs visited. The very smart slate-grey was to be kept for VVIPs.

To a man everyone removed badges from two flying suits and claimed to be acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention (1949). We won. Mr P then arranged for flying clothing to fasten the badges on in such a way that we could rip them off. B*****ks. Loose article hazard etc etc, We won.

I think white suited groundcrew eventually faded away in the late 60s.

[mcs7]

Was on the finger pans at Scampton in around 75 with Hamish off 617 and a wanabee crew chief. We had snatch cables for everything by then, though not for the "extra" crewchief. The new boy had also got p1ssed off with his headset coming disconnected from the long lead so had clipped his headset to the lead with a couple of split rings and he also securely fastened his throat mic . Come the scramble for survival and Hamish and the new boy are on finger 4. Hamish signals me and the other liney to pull the chocks and dive behind the plinth. A short time later Hamish and his apprentice wave the crew off and head for the plinth to miss the jetwash. Shortly after that the new boy is dragged by the neck towards the runway at ever increasing speed. Fortunately he was a portly lad (he had earned the nickname TG (Tame Gorilla)) and the long lead snapped before his neck did. We hardly larffed at all

[Blacksheep]

So, you compromised the safety of an aircraft and crew during a QRA scramble, eh?

We had standing instructions to bale out it if the leads were stuck. In the real thing one would of course, chance it for Queen and Country, but not for an exercise - or even worse, a 'Royal Command Performance'. It was often the case that we would be walking on the wheels of a slowly moving B1A but when you had to start running it was time to leg it. From my point of view the crew compromised the safety of a poor, hard-working Junior Magician by rushing off while he was still pulling the plugs.

I wonder what H & S would make of it these days.

except we never heard "Exercise Edom! Exercise Edom! Alert Crews to Readiness Zero-Two!"

Nor did we when we were doing our month on Alpha dispersal, but there was a lighted status board about half way between the QRA caravans and the dispersal so we could check what we were in for as we ran out to the aircraft.

The tannoy message would echo all around the station in the NAAFI, messes and other places. It was because QRA ground crew were permitted to leave Alpha three at a time to go to the Airmen's Mess for meals or the NAAFI shop for soap or toothpaste. A nice pint of 'soap' would often go down a treat if we'd just had an alert and weren't expecting another one very soon.

I think white suited groundcrew eventually faded away in the late 60s.

Old groundcrew never die, we slowly fade away.

[Green Meat]

I was watching the old "Hole in the Ground" film (for reasons we won't go into, but suffice to say it wasn't prompted by the resurgent North Sea Bear population ) where after a limited strike, the Observer Corps are plotting fallout drift. The 'phone rings, apparently it's the RAF wanting to know which airfields are safe to use. Now to the question. This is presumably post V-Force strike as we've already seen the white beast rocketing skywards. Was the Vulcan (in particular) NBC proof in the modern sense and, if so, could it be turned around for a second go under fallout conditions or not?

I know I'm going to get a finger-wagging for asking such "special" questions, so ducking now! Don't need detail, just satisfying the old grey cells (or should that be Green cells?)

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Green Meat

This is presumably post V-Force strike as we've already seen the white beast rocketing skywards. Was the Vulcan (in particular) NBC proof in the modern sense and, if so, could it be turned around for a second go under fallout conditions or not?

White beast suggests the pre-low level days.

Under the Bomber Command War SOP 1st edn crews were instructed to contact the nearest British Embassy and Air Attache or Bomber Command on HF and seek instructions.

I believe there would have been sufficient Red Beard and possibly even Yellow Sun that had missed the first raid to a second strike. Given the assumption that the Soviet Union had insufficient weapons such that a 2nd strike was possible it is also possible that fallout would have been sufficiently low that crews could have survived long enough for a 2nd mission.

Once the force was forced to go low level I believe the Soviet capability had reached the point that a second strike was most unlikely to be mountable. The advice to call home was removed from the 2nd Edn.

Was the aircraft NBC proof? Possibly. It would fly with cabin airs off and crew on 100% oxygen. After flight of course there was no NBC clothing, respirators or anything until the early 70s, a gap of some 10 years.
Lots of what ifs and most highly dubious.

[Blacksheep]

That time we ran out to the QRA aircraft and there was no status on the board - a real scramble! - once the aircraft had trundled off to the runway it dawned on us that we had no standing orders for what to do next.

The only thing to do was stand out in the open and wait to be vapourised...

Fortunately it was a Bomber Controller cock-up. I suppose a Vulcan could land on a glass runway, but who would have been around to do the reload?

[Pontius Navigator]

Blacksheep, in your time any thoughts of a 2nd strike had vapourised.

The plan was to move families into the empty bunkers across the road and for the airmen to shelter in the basements of the barrack block.

One exercise, the off-duty ops officer was floating in the open air swimming pool. He was a 'real' flying officer with about 10 years seniority as OC Ops would never write him up as fit. Anyway we are now at fallout black.

Along comes a plod in landrover and hairy blue - "Oy, its fallout black get in a shelter."

"I know cpl, that is why I am in the swimming pool washing off the fallout. Now either get it the water or trot off to a shelter somewhere."

[sitigeltfel]

Quote Pontius Navigator; Was the aircraft NBC proof? Possibly. It would fly with cabin airs off and crew on 100% oxygen. After flight of course there was no NBC clothing, respirators or anything until the early 70s, a gap of some 10 years.
Lots of what ifs and most highly dubious.

What about Op Aroma. Were these airframes specialy prepared?

[Blacksheep]

The plan was to move families into the empty bunkers across the road and for the airmen to shelter in the basements of the barrack block.

Basements in the barrack blocks? There's that Monty Python again!

(An emoticon for laughing until you cry would be useful here.)
As most of us realised, not many seconds after the last V-Bomber departed - perhaps even before any of the bombers managed to get away - a nuclear device would explode within a few hundred yards of directly above our heads. Not that any of us would know anything about it...

The youngsters here should realise that in the fifties and sixties we truly believed that this was going to happen. Nuclear Holocaust was inevitable. The war may have "Cold" but it was war real enough - one reason why after the Cuban Crisis we mad twenty-somethings lived like there would be no tomorrow.

Thank God that Joan Baez and Bob Dylan won it for us.

[Barksdale Boy]

Trevor Jackson

Trevor Jackson was VW's co on 101sqn. As a footnote to Waddo history, he started up the Gas Tomato disco in the mess on Saturday evenings -- aaah, memories of Bende in the gilded cage with G** G****** RIP.

[sled dog]

Blacksheep

The Airmans Blocks at Duxford did have basements. One of the 64 Sqdn blocks basement was converted into a coffee bar ( or other uses ) unknown to the C.O until an inspection, when the question was asked " what is down there ? ". I believe its continued use was approved under the guise of " initiative ".

[henry crun]

An underground bar at Duxford ? no one mentioned that to me when I was briefly on 64.

[Pontius Navigator]

Nice compilation and good for the anoraks <g>. The pilot cockpit shots are in the sim.

[x10ge]

Nostalgia

BS If you were a twenty something after the cuban crisis then pehaps we should both be drawing our old age pensions - I lived like there was no tomorrow as it was the sort of done thing in the 60s.

[Towlie06]

Sounds like some good stories fella's

Just another post wondering whether any of you had contact with Trevor Jackson (101 sqdn), who as someone mentioned, started this Gas Tomato disco at Waddo... anyone have contact with him at some point?