Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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Canopy Jettison
I recall being told that the gun would lift the canopy well clear of the fuselage if the aircraft was static. The problem then was - where would it come down again. IIRC it weighed more than a hundredweight and would have produced more than a dent in the bonedome of the unfortunate pilot who happened to still be sitting in his seat.
Hobie. Six and a half hours was the longest I did. Numb bum and crossed legs.
Hobie. Six and a half hours was the longest I did. Numb bum and crossed legs.
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Thanks flipflopman. Comprendez 
If you see post 1031 there's a canopy lying on the deck, with a (fired) jack of some sort protruding. This seems to correspond to the (two) fuselage dimples, below. Is this right? Where was the sextant hole, and signal pistol, or were they the same.
Signal pistol? Were they carried? I seem to remember..........
If you see post 1031 there's a canopy lying on the deck, with a (fired) jack of some sort protruding. This seems to correspond to the (two) fuselage dimples, below. Is this right? Where was the sextant hole, and signal pistol, or were they the same. Signal pistol? Were they carried? I seem to remember..........
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I seem to recall the sextant in its pyramid shaped transport box, being carried in a stowage on the floor behind the AEO seat. It could be poked out through the roof on either the left or right side just behind the pilots seats. That would correspond to those dimples. There was a signal pistol stowed in the AEO's station and I think it could be locked into the sextant orifice when needed.
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The flare pistol had its own mount where the AEO could fire it from his seat. Its original purpose was to fire the colours of the day. Later a chaff cartridge was bought for calibration of the Red Steer 2. The AEO would fire a chaff cartridge and then watch until the bloom faded.
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OK Pontius, it all comes back now, you broke it open, bunged in a cartridge and snapped it shut. It must have been the cartridges stowed in the drawer I remember. But the sextant definitely went through holes in the roof, either side behind the pilots' heads.
Now, which aircraft had the flare pistol that could be poked through the roof? On the Whirly the Nav fired the colours of the day at you, straight out of the window. The VC10 didn't deign to fire colours at all, one was supposed to recognise it and bow deeply. You were supposed to recognise the Shack too, but you were expected to giggle a little, while tugging your forelock at it. It must have been the Belfast!
Maybe one of the other old duffers on AH & N can remember, mutter, mutter...
Now, which aircraft had the flare pistol that could be poked through the roof? On the Whirly the Nav fired the colours of the day at you, straight out of the window. The VC10 didn't deign to fire colours at all, one was supposed to recognise it and bow deeply. You were supposed to recognise the Shack too, but you were expected to giggle a little, while tugging your forelock at it. It must have been the Belfast!
Maybe one of the other old duffers on AH & N can remember, mutter, mutter...
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Blacksheep, was that serious?
All the maritime aircraft had a flare pistol for search and rescue. We carried an additional 210 greens on a SAROP. Firing a green every 20 miles at night - about 12 per hour - we could have fired greens for getting on for twice our search endurance.
One dark and stormy night we put it to the test. Instant fail. The theory had clearly been set up for an open ocean search for a downed aircraft and not for a storm tossed fishing boat in sh*t.
The visibility was about 2 miles so one green every 20 was not going to work. Given a 2 mile viz we then found that we could not look out for about 20-30 seconds after the flare ignited else we would lose our night sight. Mmmm, back to the drawing board.
That was the problem with legacy kit and tactics imported from WW2.
All the maritime aircraft had a flare pistol for search and rescue. We carried an additional 210 greens on a SAROP. Firing a green every 20 miles at night - about 12 per hour - we could have fired greens for getting on for twice our search endurance.
One dark and stormy night we put it to the test. Instant fail. The theory had clearly been set up for an open ocean search for a downed aircraft and not for a storm tossed fishing boat in sh*t.
The visibility was about 2 miles so one green every 20 was not going to work. Given a 2 mile viz we then found that we could not look out for about 20-30 seconds after the flare ignited else we would lose our night sight. Mmmm, back to the drawing board.
That was the problem with legacy kit and tactics imported from WW2.
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Decent VC10s (the VC10K, that is) certainly did have a flare pistol and we used it to assist post-raid Tornados to find us on night 2 of GW1!
Then 'they' found some snag with the breech mechanism and I think that the flare guns have all gone now. Shame - a smell of cordite used to brighten things up on those night formation training trips!
Then 'they' found some snag with the breech mechanism and I think that the flare guns have all gone now. Shame - a smell of cordite used to brighten things up on those night formation training trips!
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Even the humble Canberra had a flare pistol. Fitted in the sextant hole in the roof of the nav's station. Never heard of one being used though, in fact can't recall such an item being carried at all on the 'frames I worked on. Got a pic somewhere though . .
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The things you find! http://www.vectorsite.net/avvulcan_1.html
"The bulged canopy had a five-panel windscreen and a porthole on each side; the canopy was easily removed for maintenance. There was a small porthole on each side of the coal hole, as well as a small fairing for sextant readings on the right and a similar fairing for a flare pistol on the left".
"The bulged canopy had a five-panel windscreen and a porthole on each side; the canopy was easily removed for maintenance. There was a small porthole on each side of the coal hole, as well as a small fairing for sextant readings on the right and a similar fairing for a flare pistol on the left".
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Forget, the article is wrong. The ports either side of the canopy were for the sextant alone. You needed one each side because the canopy got in the way. The nav radar [who did the shooting] had to choose the correct side or he would be all night trying to find the star he wanted [it did happen, by the way]!
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
The flare pistol had its own mount where the AEO could fire it from his seat. Its original purpose was to fire the colours of the day. Later a chaff cartridge was bought for calibration of the Red Steer 2. The AEO would fire a chaff cartridge and then watch until the bloom faded.
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On dedicated night astro sorties and competitions we carried 2 peri-sextants. The normal fix was an AABBBAA sequence which would tak eone minute per shot with one minute intervals. This meant an astro sequence would take 13 minutes with the fix time some 6 1/2 minutes before the end of the sequence.
I attempts to get the ultimate accuracy some crews would shoot on an ABABABA sequence with the a star on the port and another on the starboard. The nav rad would then hop from one side to the other taking the shots in sequence. On some crews the AEO would wind the port side sextant and even take some of the shots.
I attempts to get the ultimate accuracy some crews would shoot on an ABABABA sequence with the a star on the port and another on the starboard. The nav rad would then hop from one side to the other taking the shots in sequence. On some crews the AEO would wind the port side sextant and even take some of the shots.
Thread Starter
For we co-piglets, those astrological bore-ex trips were mind-numbingly awful. We were supposed to count down the start of astro and note any speed change....
Not too bad with a 3-shot cycle. But when Vasco down the back planned some mighty feat of star gazing, it didn't take long to work out which shot to cock up, reducing his mighty 7-shot thing to 5 or even 3....
"Three, two, one, NOW......it's one minute to astro!"
That always got the lower deck excited!
Mind you, the SR71 had an astral tracker that worked exceptionally well - and was fully automatic.
Not too bad with a 3-shot cycle. But when Vasco down the back planned some mighty feat of star gazing, it didn't take long to work out which shot to cock up, reducing his mighty 7-shot thing to 5 or even 3....
"Three, two, one, NOW......it's one minute to astro!"
That always got the lower deck excited!
Mind you, the SR71 had an astral tracker that worked exceptionally well - and was fully automatic.
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ZH875, strange but true. Remember that the Vulcan would depart the shot at 300 yards per second but that the RS2 was designed to detect something as small as an AAM.
As for minimm range, I don't think that would have been a problem. Remember AI radars were used to guide an interceptor really close to the target.
As for minimm range, I don't think that would have been a problem. Remember AI radars were used to guide an interceptor really close to the target.
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Help!
Okay, I've mentioned this project before but I'm at the completion stage now so here goes again!
As you may already know, I'm in the process of completing a major new book on the Vulcan which will be published by Crecy later this year. It will certainly be the biggest book on the subject to have ever been produced and we hope it will be the definitive "last word" on the subject. It will be my third Vulcan book, having previoulsy written "The Vulcan Story" for Cassell and "V Bombers" for PSL/Haynes.
I'm now looking for anecdotes, stories and comments from former Vulcan people to add to the book, so that we can present a story which is much more than the usual developmental and service history. We want to explain what it was like to fly the Vulcan, be a crew member, to support the aircraft and work with the V Force, etc. Any contributions (written or photographic) would be very welcome and credited to the supplier (photographs returned immediately after scanning).
Do please let me know if you think there's anything which you could contribute. I want to make this book a fitting tribute to the magnificent beast in this, the year when (hopefully) XH558 finally takes to the skies again. What better time to celebrate an aviation classic!
My email is:-
[email protected]
If you can help, or point me to anyone else who might have a story to tell, a photo to borrow or anything else connected with Vulcans, PLEASE drop me a line. I think it safe to say that (in our current economic climate) there's no chance of another Vulcan book of this size being produced, so it's a "now-or-never" chance to say something about our beloved aircraft. I'm doing the book for peanuts so it's a labour of love for me too, but I think the results will be worthwhile. Judging by all the posts on this thread, you guys have plenty so say, so let's record it all for posterity?
Thanks!
Tim
As you may already know, I'm in the process of completing a major new book on the Vulcan which will be published by Crecy later this year. It will certainly be the biggest book on the subject to have ever been produced and we hope it will be the definitive "last word" on the subject. It will be my third Vulcan book, having previoulsy written "The Vulcan Story" for Cassell and "V Bombers" for PSL/Haynes.
I'm now looking for anecdotes, stories and comments from former Vulcan people to add to the book, so that we can present a story which is much more than the usual developmental and service history. We want to explain what it was like to fly the Vulcan, be a crew member, to support the aircraft and work with the V Force, etc. Any contributions (written or photographic) would be very welcome and credited to the supplier (photographs returned immediately after scanning).
Do please let me know if you think there's anything which you could contribute. I want to make this book a fitting tribute to the magnificent beast in this, the year when (hopefully) XH558 finally takes to the skies again. What better time to celebrate an aviation classic!
My email is:-
[email protected]
If you can help, or point me to anyone else who might have a story to tell, a photo to borrow or anything else connected with Vulcans, PLEASE drop me a line. I think it safe to say that (in our current economic climate) there's no chance of another Vulcan book of this size being produced, so it's a "now-or-never" chance to say something about our beloved aircraft. I'm doing the book for peanuts so it's a labour of love for me too, but I think the results will be worthwhile. Judging by all the posts on this thread, you guys have plenty so say, so let's record it all for posterity?
Thanks!
Tim
Nixor ut Ledo
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Tim most of us are a fairly reticent lot when it comes to books etc. Would it not be worthwhile plundering this thread and if there are any stories that you feel worth fleshing out contact the poster by PM?
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I have already messages/mailed some of the posters but I thought it would be worth making a general plea in case anyone happened to be reading through this thread.
Because I have the luxury of lots of space to fill, I can do more than run the usual development and service history of the Vulcan in the book. Nice though it is to have the usual story in print again, we've all read the facts and figures countless times, so I want to use as much of the book as I can to include accounts from the people who worked on, or flew the Vulcan, so that the book becomes a much more interesting read. As has been said on this thread, there are many stories which ought to be told but they obviously aren't sufficiently elaborate to make complete books in themselves; this new book would seem to be an ideal opportunity to get some of these tales into print before we all snuff-it and the Vulcan's history is lost forever.
Because I have the luxury of lots of space to fill, I can do more than run the usual development and service history of the Vulcan in the book. Nice though it is to have the usual story in print again, we've all read the facts and figures countless times, so I want to use as much of the book as I can to include accounts from the people who worked on, or flew the Vulcan, so that the book becomes a much more interesting read. As has been said on this thread, there are many stories which ought to be told but they obviously aren't sufficiently elaborate to make complete books in themselves; this new book would seem to be an ideal opportunity to get some of these tales into print before we all snuff-it and the Vulcan's history is lost forever.
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Excellent idea, could I make a plea to include reminisces from the ground crews and the makers (I'm specifically referring to the people that actual bolted the thing together) of the Vulcan as well, please. All too many times the stories revolve around aircrews. Wonderful to hear from them, bless them
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I agree entirely Flame - I'd like to explore the Vulcan's history from everybody's viewpoint so the offer is there - anyone who wants to contruibute can so please contact me, or direct your contacts to me, and I'll do my best!
