Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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Quoting myself, first....
..."don't you agree there is some logic in "keep the beast flying, damn it"? "
Call it a "cri de coeur"....
I readily admit I did/do not know how many hours "safe life" XH558 had left after her last flight.
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Pontius and GlosMikeP,
I'm an aeronautical engineer (admittedly an oldie), so those issues are familiar. As said, I had no info on the remaining life.
Aren't you forgetting plastic and rubber? Both can get brittle or deteriorate in the wrong places. As to wiring, if you're "in the business", you know what worries and trouble that can cause.
..."don't you agree there is some logic in "keep the beast flying, damn it"? "
Call it a "cri de coeur"....
I readily admit I did/do not know how many hours "safe life" XH558 had left after her last flight.
-
Pontius and GlosMikeP,
I'm an aeronautical engineer (admittedly an oldie), so those issues are familiar. As said, I had no info on the remaining life.
Aircraft are only metal and wires
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Absolutely right CJ, but thought I'd cut it down for brevity rather than extend to fetishes as well. Pacemaker won't take it these days!
Wires and tubes can be fixed and wings replaced. I'm also an oldie aeronautical engineer (plus other bits and bobs), long past sell by date. Happy days.
And I can't wait to see the old flatiron flying again. Magnificent beast!
Wires and tubes can be fixed and wings replaced. I'm also an oldie aeronautical engineer (plus other bits and bobs), long past sell by date. Happy days.
And I can't wait to see the old flatiron flying again. Magnificent beast!
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And I can't wait to see the old flatiron flying again
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Avro Vulcan Xj781 Shiraz Undercarriage Failure
I am not a pilot or aircrew but was present when XJ781 did the crash landing at Shiraz Airfield in 1973. I was in fact a Telegraphist on Support of the exercise from 12 SU Episkopi in Cyprus. I was a member of the Communications support of the exercise. We were accommodated in the Shiraz Inn (nice place with a pool and beers). XJ781 flew over the Inn to show there was a problem with a main undercarriage leg. Not being engineers we thought he was just showing off and never noticed the undercarriage problem.
We were soon alerted to the fact he had crashed on one of the parallel runways at Shiraz and the aircraft had sustained cat 5 (writeoff) with components. The components ie all the secret stuff was stored securely overnight until it could be recovered safely. It was a textbook crash landing by all accounts but the Pilot (who I engaged in conversation on the way back to Akrotiri on a C130) told me a few problems he encountered.
1. He was not aware of a massive ditch between the two parallel runways at Shiraz. (otherwise he would have landed on the other one).
2. It was a textbook undercarriage hang up landing.
3. Sadly as the Aircraft slewed to the port it was on a hiding to nothing. Big ditch, still a lot of speed, remainder of undercarriage ready for impact and iranian observer ready for a surprise.
4. The ditch actually broke the back of the aircraft hence cat 5.
5. On the recovery back to Cyprus I was sitting next to the Vulcan Captain who told me he had tried to evacuate the aircraft after jettisoning the canopy but when he stood on his ejector seat it rocked forward a few degrees so he sat down again. He mentioned also the ingress of sand and dust,l which stung just a little.
He also told me on the complete evacuation of the aircraft most of the crew approached him and shook his hand. The Iranian observer asked what the congratualations were for and Someone in the crew said Quote well it's a better landing then we ususally get Unquote.
We all guessed it would be housing or something soon but the chances of it becoming a military asset were nil as the sqn had recovered all the best bits.
only one of three accidents I was witness too sadly. Gladly all aircrew survived.
Alan
We were soon alerted to the fact he had crashed on one of the parallel runways at Shiraz and the aircraft had sustained cat 5 (writeoff) with components. The components ie all the secret stuff was stored securely overnight until it could be recovered safely. It was a textbook crash landing by all accounts but the Pilot (who I engaged in conversation on the way back to Akrotiri on a C130) told me a few problems he encountered.
1. He was not aware of a massive ditch between the two parallel runways at Shiraz. (otherwise he would have landed on the other one).
2. It was a textbook undercarriage hang up landing.
3. Sadly as the Aircraft slewed to the port it was on a hiding to nothing. Big ditch, still a lot of speed, remainder of undercarriage ready for impact and iranian observer ready for a surprise.
4. The ditch actually broke the back of the aircraft hence cat 5.
5. On the recovery back to Cyprus I was sitting next to the Vulcan Captain who told me he had tried to evacuate the aircraft after jettisoning the canopy but when he stood on his ejector seat it rocked forward a few degrees so he sat down again. He mentioned also the ingress of sand and dust,l which stung just a little.
He also told me on the complete evacuation of the aircraft most of the crew approached him and shook his hand. The Iranian observer asked what the congratualations were for and Someone in the crew said Quote well it's a better landing then we ususally get Unquote.
We all guessed it would be housing or something soon but the chances of it becoming a military asset were nil as the sqn had recovered all the best bits.
only one of three accidents I was witness too sadly. Gladly all aircrew survived.
Alan
Last edited by Commsman; 6th Sep 2006 at 20:53. Reason: to add date 6 Sept 2006
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have just posted a reply to the string on this one
i was present on this incident a young SAC with telecomms support but saw the a/c overhead with problem and on the ground the next day. Best thing no casualties.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Iranian observer should have had a written safety brief in farsi. I had identified a need to ensure that they actually understood the brief rather than just nodding - one item was no smoking. The brief was sent to the embassy for translation and this was the first sortie where I believe it was used.
Although all the crew got out it was not without drama. The bomb aimers window broke and acted as a dust scoop. The cabin was completely fogged out in dust.
The nav table was part of the aircraft structure and collapsed trapping the two navigators by the knees. The AEO, St*f E******o heaved the whole thing up to free the other two.
Although all the crew got out it was not without drama. The bomb aimers window broke and acted as a dust scoop. The cabin was completely fogged out in dust.
The nav table was part of the aircraft structure and collapsed trapping the two navigators by the knees. The AEO, St*f E******o heaved the whole thing up to free the other two.
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XJ-781 provided me with one of life’s great surprises - 
you know the feeling. One morning in ’73 I was aboard an Iran Air 737, Tehran to the Gulf via Shiraz. I woke up on landing at Shiraz and we were bumping along the peri-track for the terminal. I’d left Waddington 4 years earlier and the sight of a dead Vulcan lying on an Iranian airport wasn’t the first thing I’d expected to see - and I do remember it took a while to get the early morning brain cells re-connected.
The two Navs were lucky. Their heavy equipment could easily have left its mountings and made a helluva mess. As it was, the Nav’s tables both distorted and the AEO (whose systems were nowhere near as heavy) was the only one mobile in the back end after the dust settled - plus a Iranian observer, so the first point still stands.
you know the feeling. One morning in ’73 I was aboard an Iran Air 737, Tehran to the Gulf via Shiraz. I woke up on landing at Shiraz and we were bumping along the peri-track for the terminal. I’d left Waddington 4 years earlier and the sight of a dead Vulcan lying on an Iranian airport wasn’t the first thing I’d expected to see - and I do remember it took a while to get the early morning brain cells re-connected.The two Navs were lucky. Their heavy equipment could easily have left its mountings and made a helluva mess. As it was, the Nav’s tables both distorted and the AEO (whose systems were nowhere near as heavy) was the only one mobile in the back end after the dust settled - plus a Iranian observer, so the first point still stands.
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Just been reading an interview with Tony Blackman who in answer to the question "What is your favourite aircraft?" replied "The Vulcan, a wonderful aircraft, it was such an interesting aircraft to land". Anyone care to elaborate on the "interesting to land" bit?
Aircraft are only metal and wires, so with the right attention can be kept flying for ever, in theory.....
...
Secondly, fatigue is only one element of lifing; simple age is another, leading to wear-out and corrosion, which also have to be factored in to maintenence and inspections.
...
As someone who had the job of doing minors on Vulcans 1980-1982, I can recall just how many things there were that could be found wrong with them. Despite what you say, they could develop cracks in annoying places (Rib 162.5 outboard of the engines was a common one), and corrosion was another hazard.
Equally, there were always problems in operation - every week there was a Vulcan circling overhead to burn fuel before landing with an undercarriage problem. Then there were those airbrakes which often seemed to get themselves in the wrong position and could act as a guillotine on the upper wing.
Aircraft are only metal and wires, so with the right attention can be kept flying for ever, in theory.....
...
Secondly, fatigue is only one element of lifing; simple age is another, leading to wear-out and corrosion, which also have to be factored in to maintenence and inspections.
...
As someone who had the job of doing minors on Vulcans 1980-1982, I can recall just how many things there were that could be found wrong with them. Despite what you say, they could develop cracks in annoying places (Rib 162.5 outboard of the engines was a common one), and corrosion was another hazard.
Equally, there were always problems in operation - every week there was a Vulcan circling overhead to burn fuel before landing with an undercarriage problem. Then there were those airbrakes which often seemed to get themselves in the wrong position and act as a guillotine on the upper wing.
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XH558 is (according to the engineers working on her) in better than expected conditon - if you want a run down of what they found as the strip down and inspection was done try
http://www.tvoc.co.uk/engineering.php
http://www.tvoc.co.uk/engineering.php
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Also, the avionics have been updated, and the "military hardware" has been disconnected and removed. Another source of problems less.
I always thought the Shack experience was somewhat akin to getting airborne in an uninsulated potting shed with a broken window in a howling gale in winter, with a 1.2kw bar heater..
Fold in the constant maddening growl of the Griffon, an occasional icy blast up one's right leg when the bomb doors were opened to throw stores in the oggin, an atmosphere composed of Erinmore Ready Rubbed, ungodly fumes from the Elsan and the galley, and yes - only 5 and a half hours to go...
You mention the view.. I'm afraid that once you've seen the North Sea from 2000', the experience is not enhanced by endless hours of repetition!
Without being sat in a comfortable leather armchair, I concede that all of the above could otherwise have been construed as a violation of one's human rights. What would be the opposite of sensory deprivation..? We used to suffer from sensory overload - noise, cold, heat, vibration & smells.
There was only one area that suffered from sensory deprivation and that was the 7" radar screen..!
Now back to our regular programming...
sv
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
All things are relative. I hated the bloody thing. I thought the tube was a massive 6 inch.
But the ability to take aim at the lion bar floating in the elsan rather than trying to not drop the pee tube was something else.
I remember one day looking in the can. The liquid was vibrating in a square pattern such was the sublime movement of the grey lady.
Or 'tail' coming out when the female pax was behind the curtain
Or the night stops, usually unplanned, in some exotic part of the country.
Now at least the Vulcan often landed away after a mere 5 hours and often in places hot - Malta, Libyia, Cyprus, Offutt, or cold like Cyprus, Norway, Offutt, Goose. For a nav the only point in flying was to land somewhere you had not taken off from.
Final point, you got 2 to 3 times the flying pay on the Vulcan although the mileage rate was cr*p.
PS, the erinmore wasn't B**r* W**r was it?
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 7th Sep 2006 at 17:36. Reason: to add PS
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I do have a list but it would be in the one book at work.
I shall try and remember come Monday.
I shall try and remember come Monday.
