Vulcan XH558 - not good news?
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What really gets me is not 558 but the support and money she brings, when other great british airworthy aircraft are grounded because of lack of interest that require a fraction of the money raised by 558 already.
The main one that sticks in my throught is the Gannet. The RN historic fleet has no less that 3 stringbags flying or under restoration to fly, get no one wants to spend a mere £ 100K to get the last airworthy gannet back from the states.
Now that a mighty, non complex, twin engine, contra prop monster I'd pay to go and see.
Who wants to form a group to bring that back, or comment on my thoughts of my it's not been done already.
Perhaps I should have started another thread, sorry folks
ps. I hope 558 all the best, and was happy to give my £ 50-00 in the hope of:
The main one that sticks in my throught is the Gannet. The RN historic fleet has no less that 3 stringbags flying or under restoration to fly, get no one wants to spend a mere £ 100K to get the last airworthy gannet back from the states.
Now that a mighty, non complex, twin engine, contra prop monster I'd pay to go and see.
Who wants to form a group to bring that back, or comment on my thoughts of my it's not been done already.
Perhaps I should have started another thread, sorry folks
ps. I hope 558 all the best, and was happy to give my £ 50-00 in the hope of:
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Oscar - I suggest you start a new thread. Maybe Ken L would be interested, although I have lost touch with him. Probably contact him thru thr FAA Assoc. I seem to remember he used to fly the one in the States owned by Hamilton Props.
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Artificial Sunrise and other stuff...
A Vulcan would be a show stopper but so would a Beverley doing low level drops and tactical take-offs and landings - and thats a more affordable prospect that could be really made to happen. I don't see anyone making a fuss about the fact that there aren't any airworthy Victors either and they were pretty impressive in their day.
I loved the Vulcan - it was the first 'live' aircraft I ever worked on back in 1966 - but without 'Old Yeller' or the WE177 it just never seemed to have street-cred anymore. Pension her off like me and let her enjoy a well earned rest so that there will still be a few around for my great-grandchildren to wonder at.
Thinks... drop 'Old Yeller' at an airshow and you'd grab plenty of attention. Where can we get one?
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Through difficulties to the cinema
I loved the Vulcan - it was the first 'live' aircraft I ever worked on back in 1966 - but without 'Old Yeller' or the WE177 it just never seemed to have street-cred anymore. Pension her off like me and let her enjoy a well earned rest so that there will still be a few around for my great-grandchildren to wonder at.
Thinks... drop 'Old Yeller' at an airshow and you'd grab plenty of attention. Where can we get one?
**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema
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Unfortunately I can confirm that if the required money is not raised, then 558 will be scrapped. She is in bits at the moment and the capital is required to just put her back together.
The whole project is very impressive, and if the lottery does come up with the money (which seems likely) the scheme should go ahead.
I am however very concerned by certain aspects, specifically the assertion that the safety record of the in-service Vulcans is being used to justify the airworthiness, despite this aircraft being operated under different circumstances.
The assertion that the a/c will not be flown in the same manner as the original display Vulcans, does baffle me somewhat, the sheer size of the old girl compared to a small display box means that she will have to be flown "spirtedly" to remain anywhere near the crowd view.
No other Vulcan will ever be flown, they simply don't have the manufacturer backup. The CAA is on-board with this project, but have categorically stated that they would not aid any of the other projects.
It will be great to see her flying and then onto Duxford when she is no longer airworthy, but I do wonder whether the money could be better spent on a range of different machines.
The whole project is very impressive, and if the lottery does come up with the money (which seems likely) the scheme should go ahead.
I am however very concerned by certain aspects, specifically the assertion that the safety record of the in-service Vulcans is being used to justify the airworthiness, despite this aircraft being operated under different circumstances.
The assertion that the a/c will not be flown in the same manner as the original display Vulcans, does baffle me somewhat, the sheer size of the old girl compared to a small display box means that she will have to be flown "spirtedly" to remain anywhere near the crowd view.
No other Vulcan will ever be flown, they simply don't have the manufacturer backup. The CAA is on-board with this project, but have categorically stated that they would not aid any of the other projects.
It will be great to see her flying and then onto Duxford when she is no longer airworthy, but I do wonder whether the money could be better spent on a range of different machines.
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Blacksheep.
Sorry to disapoint you but the Beverley, assuming that you are talking about XB259 and that you have not got a better one stuffed up your sleeve, can never fly. She was taken apart in such a manner that precludes her ever getting moving let alone flying again.The recent survey revealed that she has one more strip/ assembly left then its curtains, or rather dog food tins.
The Vulcan can fly and it has the support to do it, so lets all be positive and hope that HLF come up trumps this time.
This does not mean forget about supporting XB259, she needs that desparately. Please write to voice your support to Ian Dewar at YAM.
Sorry to disapoint you but the Beverley, assuming that you are talking about XB259 and that you have not got a better one stuffed up your sleeve, can never fly. She was taken apart in such a manner that precludes her ever getting moving let alone flying again.The recent survey revealed that she has one more strip/ assembly left then its curtains, or rather dog food tins.
The Vulcan can fly and it has the support to do it, so lets all be positive and hope that HLF come up trumps this time.
This does not mean forget about supporting XB259, she needs that desparately. Please write to voice your support to Ian Dewar at YAM.
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Say Again Slowly, define 'spiritedly'. I flew 2 seasons as co-pilot to the Sqn display pilot, and I can assure you that flying the old girl in a display was not a 'hack and rack' experience. The Vulcan had to be handled in a gentle matter, with a 2g limit. But then, most of it was flown at relatively slow speeds - we rarely got above 220kts except for the high speed departure (if that was to be flown).
The most spectacular manoeuvre was the wingover. But it wasn't really a wingover; yes, it started in the same way as a wingover, where you could crank on the bank to 120-130 degrees, but as the nose touched the horizon, the bank was reduced to 80 degrees. Thus it ended as a well controlled descending turn to position onto the display line in front of the crowd.
The display put on less fatigue than a routine low level training sortie.
There will always remain the arguement as to whether it is better to fly numerous small historic aircraft rather than one big one. I don't know the answer either, but I do know that the Vulcan was one of the most spectacular display aircraft of all time - and one of the biggest crowd pullers.
I hope it flies again...
The most spectacular manoeuvre was the wingover. But it wasn't really a wingover; yes, it started in the same way as a wingover, where you could crank on the bank to 120-130 degrees, but as the nose touched the horizon, the bank was reduced to 80 degrees. Thus it ended as a well controlled descending turn to position onto the display line in front of the crowd.
The display put on less fatigue than a routine low level training sortie.
There will always remain the arguement as to whether it is better to fly numerous small historic aircraft rather than one big one. I don't know the answer either, but I do know that the Vulcan was one of the most spectacular display aircraft of all time - and one of the biggest crowd pullers.
I hope it flies again...
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In something the size of a vulcan
is a pretty "spirited" bit of flying!
I was told that there would be no wingovers of any kind in the new displays and that it would be pretty much all straight and level past the crowd line. The idea is that just the sight and sound of her will be enough so there is no need to push it any further.
I think the project is excellent, the fact that EVERY manufacturer that was involved in the original design has given their blessing to this and many have given their time and effort towards this for free (except Rolls-Royce unbelievably!) shows how hard the 558 team have worked. Let alone getting the CAA onboard!
The most spectacular manoeuvre was the wingover. But it wasn't really a wingover; yes, it started in the same way as a wingover, where you could crank on the bank to 120-130 degrees, but as the nose touched the horizon, the bank was reduced to 80 degrees. Thus it ended as a well controlled descending turn to position onto the display line in front of the crowd
I was told that there would be no wingovers of any kind in the new displays and that it would be pretty much all straight and level past the crowd line. The idea is that just the sight and sound of her will be enough so there is no need to push it any further.
I think the project is excellent, the fact that EVERY manufacturer that was involved in the original design has given their blessing to this and many have given their time and effort towards this for free (except Rolls-Royce unbelievably!) shows how hard the 558 team have worked. Let alone getting the CAA onboard!
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In my opinion, the whole project shows a lack of management, and I’d have serious reservations about any aircraft (especially a Vulcan) being flown with poor management.
While I’m not 100% sure on the current state of the project, it’s my understanding that 558 sits in a hangar at Bruntingthorpe with insufficient money to precede and further. Worse still, there’s insufficient money to put her back together again… I’d say that’s poor management… Oh well, maybe we’ll be able to have another big auction like the Concorde one currently going ahead on E-bay! Anyone fancy a Vulcan rudder?!
Why cant she be put back together again if the lottery bid fails? I thought there was a huge team of ex-Vulcan groundcrew working as volunteers at Bruntingthorpe. I have to say, I think the departure of the Vulcan from Bruntingthorpe would seriously compromise the position of Bruntingthorpe as an aircraft ‘museum / restoration centre’
The reality is that the whole thing is a shambles. It’s just a thought, but if the manufacturers are so sure of the project, then why don’t they proceed ahead anyway? Surely it would be a fantastic advert for Bae systems to have a Vulcan flying in the skies under their name?
I’ll get my coat!
While I’m not 100% sure on the current state of the project, it’s my understanding that 558 sits in a hangar at Bruntingthorpe with insufficient money to precede and further. Worse still, there’s insufficient money to put her back together again… I’d say that’s poor management… Oh well, maybe we’ll be able to have another big auction like the Concorde one currently going ahead on E-bay! Anyone fancy a Vulcan rudder?!
Why cant she be put back together again if the lottery bid fails? I thought there was a huge team of ex-Vulcan groundcrew working as volunteers at Bruntingthorpe. I have to say, I think the departure of the Vulcan from Bruntingthorpe would seriously compromise the position of Bruntingthorpe as an aircraft ‘museum / restoration centre’
The reality is that the whole thing is a shambles. It’s just a thought, but if the manufacturers are so sure of the project, then why don’t they proceed ahead anyway? Surely it would be a fantastic advert for Bae systems to have a Vulcan flying in the skies under their name?
I’ll get my coat!
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Bus429, I may have done!
What did you think of it all. I was pretty impressed.
Grob Driver,
I think that the a/c being in bits is more to do with finding out what needs to be done so that they can plan the finances better. There may be a bit of brinksmanship involved as well.
It would be a tragedy if it was scrapped. But at the end of the day it is privately owned and the decision rests with the owners.
What did you think of it all. I was pretty impressed.Grob Driver,
I think that the a/c being in bits is more to do with finding out what needs to be done so that they can plan the finances better. There may be a bit of brinksmanship involved as well.
It would be a tragedy if it was scrapped. But at the end of the day it is privately owned and the decision rests with the owners.
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Say again… You’re right… she is privately owned, but I feel that with the amount of money that the public have given, there must be some duty (morally, not legally) to see that she’s at least kept in one bit!… Failing to plan, is planning to fail, and I feel that there has been a huge failure to plan in the case!
They have to keep people interested in the project… tell people what’s happening at what time, and keep the web site up to date. The web site they have is great, but it’s gone stale! Look at the site for the lighting that’s being restored in America. That’s what 558 needs. It’s kept up to date, telling people what they still need, what’s been done, and what they still need to do. The Vulcan seems to be resting too much in the lottery. I’m sure it’s not easy to generate the amounts of cash that they need, but they could do more. Get some nice, good quality merchandise to sell (that logo is one of the most uninspiring logo’s I’ve seen!). The reality is that the Vulcan, is one of the most loved aircraft ever made… If it’s managed in the right way, then this project is a gower!!! Go to airshows with a big fat trade stand and sell things to get money. Go to airshows like Waddington, and wander around with a big bucket asking everyone for £1… It won’t take too many shows before you start getting some serious cash! It’s no good expecting people to come to you and give money… That will work to a limited degree, but you have to go out there and ask… Still, I’ve already put this to TVOC, but no one ever bothered to respond… Typical!
They have to keep people interested in the project… tell people what’s happening at what time, and keep the web site up to date. The web site they have is great, but it’s gone stale! Look at the site for the lighting that’s being restored in America. That’s what 558 needs. It’s kept up to date, telling people what they still need, what’s been done, and what they still need to do. The Vulcan seems to be resting too much in the lottery. I’m sure it’s not easy to generate the amounts of cash that they need, but they could do more. Get some nice, good quality merchandise to sell (that logo is one of the most uninspiring logo’s I’ve seen!). The reality is that the Vulcan, is one of the most loved aircraft ever made… If it’s managed in the right way, then this project is a gower!!! Go to airshows with a big fat trade stand and sell things to get money. Go to airshows like Waddington, and wander around with a big bucket asking everyone for £1… It won’t take too many shows before you start getting some serious cash! It’s no good expecting people to come to you and give money… That will work to a limited degree, but you have to go out there and ask… Still, I’ve already put this to TVOC, but no one ever bothered to respond… Typical!
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It always amazes me how many privately owned 'vintage' aeroplanes are being funded by unsuspecting members of the public....
Say again s l o w l y & Bus429,
I was there too...Good presentaion, but if the Vulcan flies, I'll eat my shorts.
Adios chaps
Say again s l o w l y & Bus429,
I was there too...Good presentaion, but if the Vulcan flies, I'll eat my shorts.
Adios chaps
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Perhaps the time is rapidly approaching to accept that UK plc isn´t the most aviation friendly. I also think that our taxation system re:charitable donations and tax write-offs isn´t beneficial to projects such as this.
As much as I would hate to lose the Vulcan to the United States, lets face it, they are the only country to have "vision" AND the means to carry projects like this off.
Maybe the 558 team will have to bite the bullet and hand the project lock , stock and barrel to the big boys?
It would appear we have become a country that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Perhaps the lottery commission are saving our money in order to build another Dome?
As much as I would hate to lose the Vulcan to the United States, lets face it, they are the only country to have "vision" AND the means to carry projects like this off.
Maybe the 558 team will have to bite the bullet and hand the project lock , stock and barrel to the big boys?
It would appear we have become a country that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Perhaps the lottery commission are saving our money in order to build another Dome?
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Maxy101,
A bit of a sweeping statement.......
Yes the US of A (yeehar!) may have the bucks to finance things like this, but vision?? What about all the projects that are being restored by private individuals in the UK. The Blenheim(Again!), The Beaufighter by TFC, the 'between the wars' Hawker biplanes being restored by Aero Vintage, all with accurate parts, and not just any old nut and bolt that fits the hole. And if the hole is too small for the stock US hardware, just drill it out......
If the Vulcan does go to the US, can we expect to see it with a gloss light grey Imron panel, full IFR panel and 100% inaccurate RAF colour shades? Maybe then use it for air-to-air combat training?
Maybe the Ivory Coast Air Force will try to buy it?
I'll get me coat......
As much as I would hate to lose the Vulcan to the United States, lets face it, they are the only country to have "vision" AND the means to carry projects like this off.
Yes the US of A (yeehar!) may have the bucks to finance things like this, but vision?? What about all the projects that are being restored by private individuals in the UK. The Blenheim(Again!), The Beaufighter by TFC, the 'between the wars' Hawker biplanes being restored by Aero Vintage, all with accurate parts, and not just any old nut and bolt that fits the hole. And if the hole is too small for the stock US hardware, just drill it out......
If the Vulcan does go to the US, can we expect to see it with a gloss light grey Imron panel, full IFR panel and 100% inaccurate RAF colour shades? Maybe then use it for air-to-air combat training?
Maybe the Ivory Coast Air Force will try to buy it?
I'll get me coat......
Cool Mod
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I noted yesterday in at least one tabloid, an advertisement for people to pledge cash to the project. But it was also stated that the pledges would not be called until the project was ready to proceed. Whatever that means?
Interesting though!
Interesting though!
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My reading of that is that they want people to pledge money towards the project, but not to physically give it until such time as the HLF funding is secured. Although my personal view is that this will happen on the same day that Satan skis to work.
A part of a press release that I've read states something along the lines of "If we don't get the HLF money, we'll scrap the aeroplane". Hardly the best way to get the HLF committee onside, is it? The words "blackmail" and "emotional" spring to mind.
A part of a press release that I've read states something along the lines of "If we don't get the HLF money, we'll scrap the aeroplane". Hardly the best way to get the HLF committee onside, is it? The words "blackmail" and "emotional" spring to mind.
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Swinging Monkey - if you have any humble pie in the fridge I'd be delighted to consume a slice:
TVOC have issued a press release which basically says nothing other than 'pledge some money to us', but ends with this bombshell:
So it seems that while I never heard any of the guys involved with the project say this, Robert Pleming has now put it in print.
I cannot imagine the kind of thought process that led to that, I really can't, and I am mortified that I have defended them to the extent I have if that is truly their intention.
It looks like I have defended the indefensible. Swing away Monkey, I deserve it...
TVOC have issued a press release which basically says nothing other than 'pledge some money to us', but ends with this bombshell:
The award of an HLF Heritage Grant is now the only chance to reach our goal. XH558 will be scrapped if no HLF grant is awarded.
I cannot imagine the kind of thought process that led to that, I really can't, and I am mortified that I have defended them to the extent I have if that is truly their intention.
It looks like I have defended the indefensible. Swing away Monkey, I deserve it...