sorry but I call bs…what weather on final? You mean a little cloud and a shower or two!! Common man it wasn’t even remotely close to LVP……

so aircraft can’t safely and quickly cross 25 between departures? Really? Maybe go to KSFO or KLAX for a reality check.

there were 2 nice black asphalt surfaces built for purpose and available for Aircraft to use………..USE THEM.

Australia happily allow multiple Jets into places like Harvey Bay uncontrolled mixing it with GA and you think this was too dangerous!!!

You use and configure your runways in whatever mode you are allowed to operate them in. That's the bottom line. 25 arrivals and 16L/R departures is one mode. You also adhere to the rules and regulations set by the regulator. You work with what you have.

the reference to weather ACMS is that a radar standard was required to be maintained between a departure and a missed approach as the tower couldn’t visually seperate, I wasn’t implying it was atrocious.

As for the comparison to KSFO and KLAX I am pretty certain those towers wouldn’t have rated half their tower staff since COVID, some straight out of the college.

When you say Australia is happy to let jets mix it up with GA in places like Harvey Bay I can assure you the air traffic controllers are anything but happy, if they had any say in the running of ASA you wouldn’t see another TIBA ever again, unfortunately their opinions are constantly ignored and in some cases they are even made out to be the problem.

As in the MEL incident the important thing is to wait for the media to show the heroic, competent method of dealing with the situation. If a few people are killed so what

Just as is MEL as I said then

Yep, even though there may be only a very remote chance that the threat is real, the mere fact that they decide to park the aeroplane in an isolated area should be enough reason to get the pax off as quickly as possible. If there was zero risk, they would return to the terminal.
Not saying that they need to hurl passengers down the slides (which inevitably injures some) but surely policy shoud be to get them out immediately and move them away?
What happens when a bomb threat is received in an office, or shopping mall, or a passenger terminal? We evacuate first, often heading for a nominated assembly point.
In this case it appears that old mate the crazy one was not armed, so in no position to prevent pax leaving. In any case, surely among a couple of hundred anxious people, a few would have shoved him out of the way, had the order been given to leave.
Or was he threatening to pull the trigger on something unseen if they did leave?

Except for the people in the same room as the one making the threat. The people in that room are his bargaining chip. He's not going to let them leave. Witness other hostage negotiations, because that's what this effectively is.
Unless people are getting hurt, the aim is to get everyone out safe, usually including the perpetrator, and however long that takes is how long it takes. If things start going south, that's when other options need to be explored, right up to the point where collateral damage becomes acceptable if it prevents further violence. In this case, it appeared that there was no immediate danger to the passengers and crew, so a low level peaceful resolution could be implemented. Which it appears is what happened. So it took 3 hours.....so what? Everyone walked away in one piece.

Sure, that can sometimes be the case, though the baddy usually flashes a weapon or shows a bomb (sometimes later found to be fake). In that situation one can understand everyone treading softly, softly.
But this guy showed no weapons and not much aggression unless you count finger-wagging as threatening. At one stage he is head down bum up praying. Not exactly the way a serious terrorist acting alone would risk being overpowered.
I am surprised that no one jumped on him at that point. Are cabin crew no longer trained in basic restraint methods, or allowed to use restraint ties? Was there not one passenger in the crowd prepared to belt him when he got in their face?
Have we really become that passive? Reminds me of my chooks.
However, all may not be as it seems in the videos seen to date. I guess we will have to wait for more details of how it went down.

PR departments don’t want its aircrew on social media putting passengers in a headlock etc, especially if they are non violent, and just a nut job like this bloke. The cabin crew here obviously came to the conclusion that they were just dealing with a mental patient, they sat with him and just listened to his bull****. He did mention apparently that he was lying about having an explosive device, the authorities doing the intelligence work in the meantime wouldn’t be taking his word for that regardless, so the investigation would continue.

Some crew get a little too involved at times also. That Virgin pilot getting into a fight with the pax was a good example, sometimes it’s better to say nothing and just wait. I can assure you as I have seen, they will sack or demote you should you get on the wrong side of being involved.

Poppa Jo, fair comment.
Though if the authorities were not prepared to take him at face value about not really having a bomb, it doesn’t explain why the pax had to sit there for four hours, instead of disembarking pdq.

We will likely never know. Even if they screwed up, Minns or Andrews, or whoever will never admit that. As seen down south, you can drag these things via some form of independent inquiry, old mate Andrews still wriggles out of any wrong doing.

That's why. If they can't be sure, they're not going to antagonise him into doing something rash by taking away his toys. The pax were comfortable, they had food and drink. No one was getting hurt. Softly, softly.
It's amazing how passengers who paid to sit in a seat for nearly 9 hours were suddenly now "trapped" in them for 3 hours. FFS it's not like they were laying on their stomach with their hands on their head on a bank floor or anything.

Should have overpowered him immediately and restrained him. NO chance he had any device on him. Disgusting making all the pax and crew wait in fear for four hours. Cops need to grow a pair!

Who should have?

The crew, I would have.

But if the Police aren't sure why are they waiting there 4 hours?? Either get everyone off or get out of the way onto a remote bay, then take as long as you like.

Honestly if there is a credible bomb threat then it really should be a precautionary disembarkation.

If it's none of the above then really you have a hijack situation as the suspect is calling the shots. If that's the case then all bets are off and you do whatever it takes, including sitting there for hours.

Hindsight, such a easy thing to comment on! Like all such incidents, no doubt there will be plenty of debriefs and discussion and lessons learned for future events.

The delay is likely due to counterterrosim teams and other intelligence agencies, digging deep into the manifest, and the male. It would appear that this male is just a mental patient, so likely not on any watch lists, which would cause some delay while those behind closed doors are trying to sort out who he is, not only that, any other connections he has on board. Not only that, digging into his past. Takes considerable time if he is not known. Have they missed an extremist who has gone un noticed, that becomes very problematic and concerning if true.

Operation Silves was a reminder around those who can slip through the cracks, huge alarm bells for the above teams if this male had managed to sneak through with an explosive device. Just another reminder about the continued risks this industry will always face, will always be extremists looking for opportunities.

You have a firm grip on reality Poppa, :ok: prior preparation prevents piss poor performance, known as the six P's in some areas.

anito4a

you need to remove the above post my friend. Doesn’t matter if it is the same person you shouldn’t post something like that. What if it it isn’t him and his employer sees it, he could get fired. Pull your head in…………

Fair enough. Done.