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-   -   MAS 122 (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/654214-mas-122-a.html)

Capt Fathom 15th Aug 2023 05:45

Are there any 'remote' bays at Sydney that would allow for a big bang and not damage anything around it?

RampDog 15th Aug 2023 06:33


Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat (Post 11484467)
16R is closed. Videos of some lunatic ranting about Allah from inside the cabin on social media. QF1 stuck at the gate. Police riot vehicles appear to be running around the airport. Just another day in paradise.

That's quite possibly what that mental case was hoping for i.e. his day in paradise :{
Very seriously though, The MH122 cabin crew deserve bravery awards for their courage facing the threat, hopefully their Government (maybe even ours) will recognise them.

neville_nobody 15th Aug 2023 06:44

Surely they haven't sat there for 4 hours if they are worried about a bomb going off.

RampDog 15th Aug 2023 06:48

NSW Police have jurisdiction and control for this type of declared emergency, AFP would provide counter terrorism response.
Sydney Airport Corporation facilitates the emergency response to the responding authorities.
...and for what it's worth Menzies provided the stairs, MH is their contract.
I think everyone knows and should understand that in this type of emergency the response has to be measured and there are well practiced procedures in place.
Unfortunately, Joe and Josephine Average hate having their day disrupted, they just want to board and get to their next destination, no thought that there are a couple of hundred people locked in that metal tube, thinking that this could possibly be the last few hours on the planet.
The final outcome is all the proof that our systems and safeguards are working!

VHOED191006 15th Aug 2023 06:49

In the MEL incident, they were onboard within 90 minutes. Between the MEL incident and this one, what differences were there? There was a bomb threat made on both.

Lead Balloon 15th Aug 2023 06:58


Originally Posted by RampDog (Post 11485033)
NSW Police have jurisdiction and control for this type of declared emergency, AFP would provide counter terrorism response.
Sydney Airport Corporation facilitates the emergency response to the responding authorities.
...and for what it's worth Menzies provided the stairs, MH is their contract.
I think everyone knows and should understand that in this type of emergency the response has to be measured and there are well practiced procedures in place.
Unfortunately, Joe and Josephine Average hate having their day disrupted, they just want to board and get to their next destination, no thought that there are a couple of hundred people locked in that metal tube, thinking that this could possibly be the last few hours on the planet.
The final outcome is all the proof that our systems and safeguards are working!

A prominent Sydney radio station commentator, with contacts in NSW police, said this morning that it was AFP’s trainset.

I’m not saying he’s correct…

RampDog 15th Aug 2023 07:00

Neville_Nobody - Quite possibly they did..... and don't call me shirley:E
Figure it this way though, if the responders are not 100% sure of a bomb threat situation and they assault the scene, then there is a probability that there are going to be multiple casualties, including amongst the responders.
They are elite and this is not how they are trained to respond, fight or resolve.
The end result is proof of how well we can handle these situations, there are some gung ho jurisdictions in other countries where there well may have been fatalities.

RampDog 15th Aug 2023 07:05

Only the named authorities can confirm or deny how this event played out.
SYD Emergency procedures define that NSW Police control the scene of declared full emergencies at SYD, that's the hierarchy of control.

ACMS 15th Aug 2023 08:23


Originally Posted by ozbiggles (Post 11484598)
Maybe if it boggled a little bit harder it might figure out other things might have been happening on the airfield at that time



ummmm mate mate mate……..I’m aware of the MH A330 sitting on the south end of 16R on taxiway A6……yes it was the reason 16R was closed, I know.

they did use 25 for 1 UPS 747-400 departure to SHA and an A380 landed on 25 that I watched.

so 25 was available to use.

my comment and mind boggling remains over their stupidity in only using 1 runway when 2 could have been utilized easily and NOT come anywhere near the exclusion zone around the MH 330. Indeed a lot of aircraft taxied close to MH A330 along L after landing…!!!!



So genius, what’s the reason they couldn’t use 16L for landings and 25 for dep at the same time and hence double their movement rate?

PoppaJo 15th Aug 2023 08:33

Old mate Andrews was questioned over the Melbourne response, too slow, police couldn’t find armour, special ops took half an hour to get there….and so on…

He simply said ‘nothing to see here’. That is generally code in Andrews land for ‘there is a lot to see here’

missy 15th Aug 2023 09:39


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11484999)
What was the logic behind parking the aircraft at the end of the runway? What is wrong with a remote parking bay somewhere?

There are no "remote bays" designated and it would be very courageous for a Police Commander to choose a location other than in the plan.


Originally Posted by Capt Fathom (Post 11485008)
Are there any 'remote' bays at Sydney that would allow for a big bang and not damage anything around it?

No.

missy 15th Aug 2023 09:56

I think there are 3 related issues.
1/. Decision to use 34L A6 as the remote location.
2/. Runway mode operated.
3/. Time to de-escalate the situation and return operations to normal.

Given MAS122 was an air-return then there was time to plan the intended remote location. The use of 16R as an arrival runway possibility influenced the use of 34L A6. Was the aircraft offered or did they require 16R? Either way then the aircraft could've been taxied to one of the other designated areas on 16L (lesser of two evils).

Given use the closure of 16R then the use of 16L seemed obvious however other options could've been considered. As mentioned, 16L ARR and 25 DEP or 25 ARR and 16L DEP seemed obvious.

Pleased that all are safe. If 1/. and/or 2/. were different then there should've less disruption overall.


framer 15th Aug 2023 12:22


Was the aircraft offered or did they require 16R?
I can’t imagine too many wide body Captains choosing the 2200m runway over the 3000+m runway in the situation that they were in.

KittyKatKaper 15th Aug 2023 22:56

What's the bet that we'll now all get extra security checks/scans, because obviously there was a 'MacGyver'-style threat that had to be work-shopped.

Waiting on a runway for 3 hours after 1 hour notice of a problem does not inspire me with a lot of confidence in the outfit that was 'in charge'.

framer 15th Aug 2023 23:21

To be honest I thought they would have stopped all arrivals and departures for half an hour or more,so I’m mildly impressed with the response.
Is there a chance that a more efficient runway mode was possible but due to ASA staff retention failures it was unable to be implemented?

C441 15th Aug 2023 23:35


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11484999)
What was the logic behind parking the aircraft at the end of the runway? What is wrong with a remote parking bay somewhere?

Or at the end of 16L rather than 16R?

Mach E Avelli 16th Aug 2023 01:50


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11485029)
Surely they haven't sat there for 4 hours if they are worried about a bomb going off.

A dedicated extremist hoping for a hot date with 72 black-eyed virgins would not embark on a protracted rant like this guy did. The real deal are more inclined to rattle off a quick "Allahu Akhbar" and push the button/pull the string/pop the pin and blow everything up before someone can take them down. Or just sit quietly fingering their worry beads waiting for the device to go bang at a preset altitude or time.
Once the aircraft landed, the authorities would probably have assessed the risk as relatively low, but they still needed to be sure there was no device planted somewhere running on a timer.
Though it is surprising that they didn't do a rapid evacuation.
Of greater concern now is how this fruitcake gets sentenced. If they drop him in the loony bin for 5 years and then he gets out, who is to say he won't be like that other nutter in the Lindt Cafe disaster? They had pre-warning that he was a crazy radical, too.
The Israelis would have dealt with this guy quite differently. If they hadn't shot him, they would never release him back into public life.

markis10 16th Aug 2023 04:18


Originally Posted by RampDog (Post 11485047)
Only the named authorities can confirm or deny how this event played out.
SYD Emergency procedures define that NSW Police control the scene of declared full emergencies at SYD, that's the hierarchy of control.

Correct, NSWPOL are the controlling body for all emergencies, however Fedpol have the baton when it comes to enforcement ie arrests

jj232 16th Aug 2023 05:22


Originally Posted by DROPS (Post 11484817)
"Operational Restrictions" quoted on the ATI.

Maybe this was the best they could do with the available staffing? Who knows. Should all run a lot smoother when SY APP relocates to ML in a couple of years. No doubt that is the reason for doing it. Smoothness.


Don’t hold your breath for that DROPS, The relocation project is currently flatlining and appears to be heading down the road of another ASA failed project.

As for 16L for arrivals only, with weather on final on many heavies in the mix I doubt a higher arrival rate could of been achieved, maybe 2 or 3 max. All these aircraft would then have to cross an active runway to get to the terminals as well as dealing with all the departures waiting to go off 25. 16L arrivals 25 Departures isn’t a mode ever used also, I think in the interest of safety what occurred was the safest given the situation.

red_dirt 16th Aug 2023 06:24


Originally Posted by KittyKatKaper (Post 11485530)
What's the bet that we'll now all get extra security checks/scans, because obviously there was a 'MacGyver'-style threat that had to be work-shopped.

Waiting on a runway for 3 hours after 1 hour notice of a problem does not inspire me with a lot of confidence in the outfit that was 'in charge'.

I know right, I mean when was the last time you were the on scene commander at a potential extremest attack. Clearly you managed to pull them all of covertly


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