Haven't you heard? Pilots don't retire anymore. Just do day flights in the cripple across the Tasman til you die.

The medical will retire a few before they die. It is true though that many 'older' pilots would retire if faced with a full-time A320 roster but let's face it, a few trips across the Tassie in the widebody if a pretty desirable position to be in and most will do it as will most of the younger guys/girls when they reach that age. It is pointless getting twisted in a knot over it as it is changes to legislation that have allowed it and the over 65s have as much right as anyone to use the applicable laws to extend/maintain their careers as they see fit. When I was overseas flying the retirement age at my airline went from 55 to 65 at the start of the tax year in 2006. If you reached 55 the day before you were out the door, if you reached 55 the day after you could go another 10 years, sometimes life sucks and we always get these scenarios where things change that disadvantage different groups. You can't blame those on the Tasman routes for taking advantage of those changes.

Of course not, but that won't stop us taking the absolute P155 out of the superannuants choosing to do so.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....71a74fdb5.jpeg

That is of course everyone’s right to do so :-)

Many of us are accepting of them continuing past 65, but not of the special branch that’s been created on the Widebodies to accomodate them at the expense of everyone else.

It craps all over the bidding system and roster balancing.

That sounds fair enough to me because surely some of the remuneration paid to wide body crew is for the hardships of long haul flying. If you’re not facing the same hardships ( family life disruptions, circadian disruptions)maybe the remuneration should be less than those who are?
​​​​​​​Maybe it is?

Bumping this to the top in the hope of more updates. I originally got the “currently unable to progress your application” email in May, but have now completed the cognitive assessment and am waiting for an interview board date. Some questions to throw out there…

How many externals have been interviewed/hired so far? How long is the tag and release list now?
Future recruitment board dates, how many per month, how far in advance are they filled? What is the timeline like up until the start date. Any other useful interview info?
Why is the 777 so much more senior than the 787? (Based on previous upgrade comments)
For first preference options, what are some S7 vs S8 considerations? Likelihood of only being offered F20?
What is the company KiwiSaver contribution?
How many min days off per roster? How many LH trips? Trip length?
How many weeks annual leave?
How good/bad is pilot morale out on the line right now?

PM’s welcome. Cheers.

Hi all,
Does anyone have info. on the NZ ATPL Air Law exam? Or have any notes please?
Apologies for posting on this thread. Need to do this exam and appreciate the help!
Thank you

There have been 2 external boards this year that I know of, so ~20 interviewed with 6 expected to start in Nov. Roughly 40 Pilots are either on LWOP or Regional Trainers on Secondment.
P&W engine issues have delayed the company publishing an updated course forecast and they've also cancelled a number of A320 courses this year due to training capacity issues.
Morale is rather low at the moment due to ongoing lifestyle concerns. Bid satisfaction is down, 777 Pilots are getting flogged and Airbus Pilots are doing 3 Call rosters a year. Unfortunately, managements decisions around post COVID fleet and Pilot numbers have proven to be woefully inadequate. We simply don't have enough Aircraft at the moment, especially with a number of NEO's grounded without engines, which is somewhat masking a current Pilot shortage. Recruitment should keep ticking over to ensure we have the numbers to fly additional Aircraft as they arrive, or get new engines.

The 777 is more Senior to the 787 simply because it pays more, except for SO's who are on the same rate regardless of fleet. S7 vs S8 really comes down to route structure. 777 you'll mostly be doing LAX, SFO & IAH while the 787 goes everywhere else. For what it's worth, 777 has the better Crew Rest!

LH Trip length can vary from 2 days to over a week on ULR Trips (SO's only do ORD at the moment). Company releases a bid pack for each roster specifying the average days off and hours flown. If you bid for short trips you'll do more than if you bid for long ones, but with few exceptions, everyone has to fit within the "window". It's a Seniority Bias system meaning a Senior Pilots bids carry more weight than a Juniors but we're all expected to do the same amount of work so keep that in mind when bidding.
10 Days off per 28 day roster with a few fleet specifics around dipping below and rolling averages.
Annual leave is 34 Days + 11 Public holidays which can be converted to leave or accrued as AHR's (days in Lieu). The leave system is a bit convoluted, we have an annual ballot to book leave so you really need to plan ahead and we used balancing days to take leave in either 7 or 14 day blocks. Long Service leave and other benefits come later.
7.5% Kiwisaver.

What are the rough increase in crew numbers required for this extra leased 777 being added?

It will be interesting to see if further leases are added if the 320 Neo fleet are going to be grounded.

The Widebodies run roughly 9 Crew Sets per Aircraft, so call it 25-30. Appears we’re on the hunt for a 2nd lease, likely from Cathay, but that wouldn’t arrive until next year sometime.

With the 777 being so senior, every window seat position creates seat changes that filter all the way down, and with training capacity issues on the 320 it’s difficult to say how the numbers will work out, in the short term at least. If the leases are going to stick around for a number of years they’ll have to properly crew them eventually.

As for the NEO’s, 2 of 3 Domestic 321’s have been parked and stripped of their engines to keep the international ones going. Believe we’re due a 4th Domestic delivery this month which will likely end up the same.
If the issues did escalate to the point of NEO’s being grounded it would be absolutely devastating as all our CEO’s are non-EDTO Domestic configs. The international fleet is entirely NEO’s.
Like the RR Trent 1000 on the 787 however, I doubt we’ll see the whole fleet grounded, just more restrictions and inspections.

In theory, none of this should have any impact on recruitment because we’re already short on Pilots. New 787’s start arriving next year along with continued NEO deliveries. When the smoke clears, last thing we want is to still be parking Aircraft due to a lack of crew.

Anyone know if any Air nz jet pilots are applying for QF mainline to come across here?

You? :E

Not sure but many turboprop guys are from what I’m hearing.

A320 rosters
 

Hello all,

could someone please tell me how hard the 320 guys and gals work?

as I understand it, airnz pays a 40hr work week, so I imagine they could theoretically push a pilot a bit harder than their Qantas equivalent for same money ?

thanks!

Not a 40 hour flying week they don't.

Your probably mistaking a base salary with incentive pay.

hard enough that no one wants to stay on it and bid across to SO. Not to mention you’ll make more as an SO.

You might be getting confused with wording around salaries. A320 pilots get incentive pay after 59 flying hours over the 28 day roster. What counts as “flying hours” for the purpose of incentive pay is complicated but it basically boils down to flight time or duty minus three hours, whichever is more, for each duty period. Whether that amounts to working hard or not depends greatly on the make-up of the roster. Ten Tasman returns would be about 70 hours for the roster with 18 days off, that’s much closer to “hardly working” than “working hard”, on the other hand you can do a lot of shortish domestic duties with single days off and not much, if any, incentive pay. It just depends on the crumbling of the cookie. Mostly you get a mix of both. Personally my only complaint is finishing late, having a single “day off” then starting early. If I can’t have a beer on one of the nights then it doesn’t feel like a day off, IMO. (And I don’t even want a beer most of the time, it’s just knowing that I could have one if I wanted to.)

Whoa you’re a much more robust pilot than me! Ten Tasmans and I’m considering changing my profession :)

Well I don’t think anyone would actually get a roster like that, it’s normally a mix.

Thanks !

Whats a sort of ‘average’ or normal amount of flying for the 320?

Is it easy to pick up shifts if needed, or work less if you wanted ?

Maybe 70 hours per 28 day roster. You can bid for high incentive and low incentive rosters but it gets balanced over the long term so all pilots should average about the same number of hours.

The Average A320 Roster will be 60-65hr IP with 10-12 Days off while the Average SO Roster would be 70-80hrs with 12-14 Days off.
Generally speaking, on the Bus you'll do less IP for more days worked due to the high volume of Domestic flying... then out of the blue you'll get smacked with an outlier roster and push 85 hrs while everyone else is doing 60.

Bidding plays a massive part in your lifestyle. On the Bus, if you wanted, you could avoid overnights and bid entirely on early starts that finish by 3pm and see your kids after School. Or you could chase overnights and avoid early starts.
Long Haul is much the same. Do you want to chase Long trips with clear days off overseas? Or prefer shorter out and backs with more time at home? So long as your bids fit the window, you can achieve either.

If you assume the first 8-10 years at Air NZ will be as an SO/F20 I'd advise giving both a go.

Hallo,

So I'm flying the 320 overseas and AirNZ has asked me to complete their assessment.

Whats the scoop on hiring externals atm? Pointers on the recruitment process?

Thanks

Ummmm, "how" does one land up being SO for "8" years? That's mighty excessive!

By avoiding short haul. I'd probably do it too if I worked there.

Just cleared mine few weeks ago + also completed the ATPL flight test in the AirNZ sim (foreign licence conversion).

​​​​​​Happy to send you deets.

The first externals have started this month and will continue next year with around 25-30 currently in the hold file.

For the interview process, brush up on your raw data hand flying skills & basic ATPL knowledge for a tech exam (Met, Law, Principles of flight etc).

The SIM will most likely be in the 787 or 777, not the Airbus.

Be aware that the company have said that from approximately March next year the rppp appoint and second will be in effect. That is the 1:9 ratio has been exhausted. From then every external will have 4 rppp pilots appointed ahead of them on the jet list.

I understand you can’t say with certainty without knowing how many externals get hired but in real terms what impact would this have on seniority? Are there any requirements to bid
for command outside of time on the seniority list (hours on type, etc)?

Roughly what’s the required hiring numbers and how much does the list move year on year? Just trying to figure out the impact on command time if you join at the bottom of this hiring wave.

There's no time on Type requirements for a Command, and by the time anyone on the Jet Fleet has the Seniority they'll have more than enough experience.

The new Course plan (Jan - June '24) has 48 entry level positions on it, some if which could be filled by internal seat changes, but it's a good ballpark.
By the end of this year, ~80 Regional Pilots would have come across in 2023 allowing 8 externals, 6 have already started.
I can’t recall the numbers from last year, but as there was no external recruitment let’s call it another 6-8 without exceeding the ratio.

As Skankhnut mentioned, it's looking like March is when the RPP 90:10 Ratio will be broken due to experience shortage in the Regionals, which covers 14 of the above courses, so 34 remaining. But at what Ratio I'm not sure. If we end up with another "Link Ban", as is usually the case, 25 externals results in 100 reserved numbers. If we double the course plan and assume 100 new hires for 2024, things could get out of hand rather quickly.
Retirements are 20-30 most years, but more are staying past 65 post COVID.

Thank ElZilcho

if we must… thank you elzilcho

​Any updates about how many externals they be recruiting this year? Recieved an email about "limited board dates" availability in 2024 + nothing mentioned about the next stage of the interview process if any.

By the end of 2023 very few externals had started leaving the hold file reasonably healthy, likely resulting in the comment about limited boards.

How many of those Pilots will still be available is yet to be seen, given the current demand globally.

Expect we’ll get some more clarity in the coming months, but the last figure I heard was around 50 external hires this year. Personally that sounds a bit low but it’ll be driven by how many Regional Pilots are able to be released.

Thanks Elzilcho

Should the current GM be ‘replaced’, any guesses whether the current recruitment scheme might see the skip? Sounds like the Links are already very short on potential new Skippers and it’s only early days!!

​​​​​​There are pros and cons to every system. The previous iterations of recruitment didn't necessarily work and this one may not entirely either. We are in a somewhat unique environment. How long will it last?

I don't see how throwing the current system out will make much difference other than creating slightly different effects.

I mean one solution might be massive pay rises and overseas recruitment into the Regional airline but I really can't see that happening.

any word on progress with the low hour pilot programme? rough timelines anyone or still early days