And it’s about the fourth wage freeze the company’s demanded in the last couple of decades, each of which has been followed by handsome profits and tasty bonuses for senior management. On top of a couple of years’ unpaid standdown, rapidly increasing cost of living, and the company’s continuing belligerent, ultimatum-style approach to new aircraft - yep, shove it.

Love how he says in recognition of the sacrifices that have been made,bet they account for a lot more than $5k per employee. Of course the exec & management 1 off bonus will never be revealed,the deceit rolls on.

Is this online with the shares offering or additional?

I believe its additional BUT an eba has to be signed to become eligible which if im correct contains an 18 month(could be 24,not sure) wage freeze.
Not hard to figure out who is making the sacrifices & who is the big beneficiary.

Dont think there was ever much doubt about the mates club,this shows even more why little ol AL never gets questioned.

never thought I'd see Michael West on pprune.

Agree 1000%

Good luck, I hope you are successful.

While I agree the 2 year pay freeze is ridiculous, the 2 year pay freeze is a relatively smaller loss over longer periods of time, i.e. 20-30 year career, than the lost income as a result of 2% annual increases (previously 3%). For individuals with a shorter timeframes however, the wage freeze will will be much more costly.

The two year pay freeze is actually a massive loss over a career. That’s over 6% for those two years based on previous increases, the forgone value of which is compounded every pay increase going forward, forever.

The ongoing two percent is just insulting salt in the wound, repeatedly, every year going forward.

Compounding interest says this is wrong. The longer remaining in your career, the more a wage "freeze" (really a pay cut) impacts you

I was trying to say that while the freeze is costly, the cost of 1% lower salary increases dwarfs that two years of zero, particularly over the longer term.

I see what you’re saying, but don’t forget the two years of zero increase is there, baked in, forever. It’s compounded every year that you ‘might’ get a pay increase forever, increasing the amount you’re not getting anymore.

Do the maths on that two year pay freeze compounded at the company’s desired 2% annually for a decade, or more! Eye watering.
Then add the ongoing losses of the 1% annually that the company doesn’t think you’re worth.

And don’t get me wrong, 2% is a joke as well. Especially at current rates of inflation.

The inflation rate has only been above 3% 3 times in the last 20yrs.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d67f80969.jpeg

https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...ation-rate-cpi

Too late now.

putting aside the flawed logic of comparing wages to inflation rate as opposed to cost of living, the above resulted in an average inflation rate of about 2.7%
- which group of pilots in Australia has achieved that year on year? (And due to compounding factor, for every year it wasn’t achieved ie “group wage freezes” etc, the following year would have required a slightly higher wage rise to offset that loss)

Why do we have to accept a 2 yr pay freeze! No other industry that I can find is imposing such draconian measures on their employees. 2% and 2yrs is just a number AJ thought of whilst sitting on the can one morning. There is still one group left to sign off, actually even to start negotiations.

You don’t have to accept it. Fact is though most know that they will be taking it one way or another as Alan has played a blinder by splitting the workers up into so many competing entities that they can play off against each other.

Except that is looking backwards and it sure ain’t going to be 3% end of next FY.

Both EBAs don’t expire for another 12-18 months, and then negotiations usually take a year, so finalised deals won’t be voted on for another 2-3 years. A different environment will exist then.

Plus a smart negotiating team can technically comply with a wage freeze policy but find smart ways to reach a deal the pilot group can find palatable. Just requires some time.

And you're only looking back 20 years.
If you go back to the 1970s & 1980s, inflation was much, much higher than recently

Meanwhile in 2022:
United (Mainline) Pilots get 14.5% pay raise - Business Insider
American Airlines (Mainline) Pilots offered nearly 17% pay raise - CNBC

CPI dosen't take into account the sky rocketing real estate market (existing dwellings) either... take a look at 1900-1980 vs 2000-2020 for the J curve. And the shortage of rentals for the younger ones near most bases is becoming an issue.

I hear the United union aren’t pleased with 14.5% in light of the better offer made to AA

QF and group better pick their act up quick smart otherwise there will be no punters left to fly on them. Pi$$ing so many ppl off each day the latest, knowingly departing Sydney for Wellington then diverting to Christchurch because of curfew. Telling lax to grab a couch and get comfy. Hope AJ holiday is most excellent.

Not hearing such from VA pax must be running smoothly there.

BITRE on time departure data for May had VA group at 64% OTP vs QF group at 61.5%. Not ideal and should be doing better but VA had a similar fall in OTP compare to QF.

Photos from Sydney T2, pretty chaotic and it mostly seems to be at the VA check in. A quick perusal of the VA FB page shows lots of angry comments regarding flight delays, cancellations, baggage issues, call centre wait times, overbooking etc.

And a perusal of news sites shows cancellations and delays all across the northern hemisphere this summer. This isn’t making any excuses for what’s happening atm, I think all airlines need to do better, but it’s not a problem confined to just one airline in one country.

I remember in 2011 everyone was saying that would be the end of QF too, everyone would flock to VA. What ended up happening?

Not only the punters are leaving Qantas, there is currently a max exodus of pilots from the group headed to the USA.

They should all be applauded. Employees voting with their feet is the only thing that makes airline management think about coughing up a few more dollars

A few more dollars? When companies like Atlas are throwing numbers around that would give AJ heartburn, it’s clear that there will need to be HUUUUGE incentives.

Huge numbers leaving? Really?

Would I be right in guessing that's mainly from non-mainline group entities with a few less-senior S/O's from Longhaul?

I believe most US operators wont take an ex-Qantas group pilot unless they resign; that is not acceptable if on LWOP.

I haven’t heard of a single current mainline pilot resigning to go to a US regional (legacy carriers only on offer for those with green cards). Even if there were it would be a single digit number only.

I suspect a few who took VR may have taken up a contract to fly for Atlas for a couple of years, but only after a VR package, and pretty much everyone who took VR had less than 5 years to go to retirement anyway. There’s certainly no “exodus”.

Know of 1 mainline S/O currently going through the process. I think as said by a previous poster it would more likely be from other group companies.

Have heard from buddies over there now that there are indeed a number of QF S/Os jumping from the rat to a few different US regionals, I guess they like to actually fly airplanes. Wouldn't be shocked if a bunch of expats are bouncing back to oz as well though.

If they want to "actually fly airlplaes" then it's a very quick path to becoming a 737 F/O in mainline and able to make ~180-200k on comfortable hours. Seems a lot better than flogging around for a second tier US carrier.

Nope. They’ll make more at the regionals over there and have better conditions than Qf 737. Cancellation pay - you’re paid a minimum of what your initial roster is published at. Duty and trip rigs. Four hotels a month if you commute. Bonuses. Better flying. More destinations. Far better atc and procedures. List goes on….

But this is probably more appropriate on the thread for US regionals.

A220/B717 CPT @ DL on $350K/AUD... maybe $100K more than what QF will pay NJS?? Multiplied by X number of years... that's a lot of beer

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...lta_air_lines#

Not really applicable as that’s a legacy and won’t take E3 applicants. Speaking more to the regionals that are offering over $150p/h for 1st year FO with huge bonuses up to 60k on top. I believe these were introduced with an August 2024 expiry so would suit well to go for a brief period. Regionals over there are rarely career destinations anymore. More a stepping stone to legacy or fedex/ups etc.

I believe the data on the NJS salary is incorrect. NJS pilots are not on $100k less than $350k. They don’t even crack $200k