Hahah, not by the sounds of things at NJS. Pilots are off signing up for pay freezes, while others are buying $20m houses...go figure!

Congratulations NJS!
You just voted all your protections away for nothing in return.
The race to the bottom continues.

What a bunch of pathetic spineless losers. You really have screwed yourselves and the rest of industry by accepting such a sub standard deal.
Please remember that you can't complain next time you are getting 10 hours rest in base between two 4 sector days.
I guess what more can you expect from a bunch of bitter Qantas rejects.

what was the vote split?

Vote split was 66% up.

QF SH 80% yes

I think you will find that most of the NJS pilots that voted in favour of the agreement did so not because they felt that it was a "good agreement" but because they faced too much long term uncertainty if they voted no and the agreement was rejected. Essentially they were coerced into voting yes.

On the outside looking in it is easy to say that the race to the bottom continues thanks to NJS voting this agreement up (or any other pilot group when it is their time to vote), but when a person is operating an aircraft that is due to be phased out and is not in a position to easily uproot and move to a new job due to things such as age or family, to me it is understandable that an agreement like this can get over the line.

No, it does not help other pilot groups, but when your head is on the chopping block it can be hard to stand ground for the "greater good" when the consequences can have a severe impact on your life. Things may have been different if the NJS pilot group were not operating an aircraft that is being replaced and had more things in their favour but unfortunately things were stack against them and management was able to utilise standover tactics to force this agreement through.

I would not be surprised to see an exodus of pilots from NJS that are in position to move on to greener pastures and I hope there will be sufficient amounts that do so so that managements behaviour bites them in the butt regarding crewing, but that may be wishful thinking on my part. I also foresee that a lot of goodwill will be lost and doing things such as extending or accepting duties that don't need to be accepted will decline resulting in more delays and/or cancellations. Whether management will notice and understand why will be another story.

Memo from Qantas to Fair Work Australia:
We request that in order to reflect actuality, all current and future Workplace documentation involving amendments to Qantas Group employee's workplace terms and conditions are to refer to the "EU" - Enterprise Ultimatum…….:rolleyes:

Bit harsh on the NJS pilots, when over the road we have 80% of SH pilots voting to reduce conditions with zero benefits in return - before EBA negotiations even start. Seems a touch hypocritical for qf guys calling NJS drivers spineless..

Maybe he was referring to both sets of pilots? :}

What make you think he/she is a Qantas pilot?

Did anyone ever work out the cost of making the whole NJS pilot list redundant?

Seemed like a rather idle threat looking from the outside.....

To make everyone go away? Only about $4mil.

Not sure where you get that figure from but it would be substantially more than that

Or here’s a thought......

Maybe one or both sets of pilots, having reviewed the offer before them, and weighing up the benefits and disadvantages of such a deal, considered that the offer presented to them would open up good opportunities for their future with any perceived disadvantages being insignificant enough to be negligible in the long run. Coming to a different conclusion to others doesn’t make them “spineless”.

What we do know is these aircraft will be placed in the existing operations, and in the case of the A321 the pilots will continue to enjoy the best narrowbody conditions in the country.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but you have taken the words right out of my mouth. I'm sure the majority of NJS Pilots voted yes in shear desperation.

I love it how other pilot groups jump in and say 'you should have sacrificed your jobs for the good of us all!', easy to say but realistically everyone needs to look after their own situation. I am sure those that voted yes had a very good reason for doing so and should not be criticised for that.

The accepted agreement putsNJS conditions way ahead of Allianceand aheadofNetwork. It’s bit rich pointing the finger st NJS for continuing the race to the bottom.

I hope those guys who boldly declared that they would get the new aircraft and go hard at qantas next time, actually remember to go hard next time.

Sure, my comment will qualify me for Mastermind, special subject, The Bleeding Obvious - NJS guys suffer the old management line which we used to get 25 years ago when I was there, "guys, everyone wants our contract, its very competitive, and we must tighten our belts, take an 80% pay cut or you'll have no job." We got it all the time. Its far more serious now because QF have bought up all the NJS competitors and will just play them all off. I know its all obvious, but when you get guys calling them spineless, well they've not been in their shoes. And its not just a threat nowadays, make your branch of the operation uncompetitive and you WILL lose the work.

G'Day all,

A redundant here looking to get back into the industry so please excuse my naivety, it's been a couple of years. Does anyone have the new NJS agreement handy? It doesn't appear to be on the FWC site just yet and I'm sure that's the case seeing it has only been voted in. As I'm sure we've all seen NJS has opened up recruitment for B717 FOs and just I'm just trying to gather as much info on the future operation as I can before making decisions. ...not that I have many options down here in sunny old YMML at the moment anyway. Kind thanks in advance to any homo sapiens (PC enough?) that can offer up any useful information on the NJS situation

If the rumours are true that plenty of NJS drivers are looking to the US, then they probably don't care about too much other than a stable income until they head off.

Just download the 2017 agreement. The pay is the same for the next 4 years with a 2% (ie: 3+% less then CPI) increase and when (if) the 220 is introduced you just reduce all hard fought conditions by 40%.

outstanding…

yeah, wasn’t expecting anything too much more than as described above. Thank you

Just go off the 717 contract. The base pay is the same, but frozen until July 2023. After which it's 2%. Then take out any lifestyle protection and that is what you will end up with. It represents about a 30 percent decrease in terms and conditions from the current contract. To quote the feds 'the proposed EA is so bad, is so concessionary to the extent that many of the concessions may never be won back, that we can only recommend you vote ‘NO’".

If you are not currently flying then it may be worth it just to get current again. Don't come here thinking this is a lifestyle gig, there are much better offers out there for those with experience, and many are leaving. Rosters are interesting, a lot of duty for little flying hours, lots of paxing and waiting around. On the bright side you get to enjoy regular NTL overnights. Probably the only thing going for NJS currently is there's no back of the clock flying but it sounds like the A220 will change that. Hope that helps.

Sounds like a good place to get a free A220 endorsement and then fvck off somewhere that pays for your contribution to the company.

All good thoughts. Got my hands on the new agreement and from what I read you will only be held to one training bond correct? Example, It’s not like they can put you in a 3 year bond for the 717, then, 12 months later you do the a220 and the clock on your 3 years starts all over again. Essentially 4 years. So, two type ratings for 3 years service 🤔

Redundancy payments in the agreement vary depending on length of service but the highest entitlement is 16 weeks so if you use that to calculate the approximate cost to the company it would work out to be about $10.2 million based on the 2025/26 FY payrate which would be about when the last 717 would be phased out, however in reality not every pilot would be entitled to 16 weeks.

If the company did elect to wind down NJS it is unlikely that every pilot would hang around to the end to obtain a redundancy payment instead move on at the first available opportunity which in turn would reduce the cost burden to the company.

All in all, the amount mentioned above would probably be seen by some IR people as worth spending to be able strike fear into other pilot groups at future negotiations. A certain someone nearly spent twice that amount on a house so he probably wouldn't even blink at signing that expense off to stick it to another group of workers.

Regarding redundancy, A 1 yr F/o would receive a little over $2k
For a captain 9 yrs up to and not including 10 years they receive $61 k then 10 years plus 46k in redundancy.
A rough guess the total amount would be closer to $5mil or less

All this talk about not flying the 320s, from what I’ve heard the variation to SH was voted up at 66%

Qantas is turning into a giant episode of the series Succession

I heard 80%

It was 80%, can’t wait until it arrives as I’ll get at least 10-20% better take home pay, regardless of what everyone thinks. The last thing I want is ping pong between SYD and MEL only getting stick hours while I can cruise for 8 hours hassle free and triple my DTA.

20$ is that the next trance of aircraft come with the proviso of two years Pay freeze and 2% for the life of the 5 year EBA.

Somthing similar for long haul.

These guys are ethical low life’s after two years of stand down!
Primarily Alan.

And management who refuse to support THEIR staff.

’Alan’ loves to preach about gay rights, provide fairness to females, but when it comes to paying staff a wage that maintains increasing life and social expenses it’s all out the window for a shameful comparative approach at all expense.

A two year pay freeze at the next LH EBA is the hill I will die on while inflation is what it is. I don't care what they threaten.

Even with the $5000 bribe?

Threats and bribery. Disgusting.

There you go, right on cue. Absolutely disgraceful. They can keep their $5000. I’ll take my inflationary pay increase.

For those out of the loop:

it’s a demonstrably repeated pattern too by Joyce - surprising it’s all above board

Lets not forget how we can all suddenly so easily solve Aboriginal poverty just by simply acknowledging the country after every landing. I never knew it would be so simple.

Anyone want to do the sums on a 2 year wage freeze, over the course of a 20-30 year career.

$5000…shove it