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-   -   Qantas...Post COVID (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/639432-qantas-post-covid.html)

dr dre 6th Aug 2021 00:11


Originally Posted by ManillaChillaDilla (Post 11090420)
When were the cash reserves supposed to be able to last until?

Was it the end of 2021?

At this rate we will be lucky if there is anything left to go back to.

MCD

It was supposed to be end of this year, but that forecast was made very early on in the pandemic, May last year I think. And that was assuming basically no income going ahead. Since then there’s been income from the IFAM and repatriation flying, domestic government backed flying, a profitable resource sector, and quite profitable domestic flying whenever it is going. As well as international and domestic employee wage subsidies from the government and the raising of cash by the selling of land. A big part of losses last year were redundancies which won’t happen again this year.

Qantas Group HY21 Appendix 4D and Interim Financial Report

Domestic was profitable at only 30% capacity to December (I believe they’re 40-50% for the upcoming months) and International’s position will be bolstered by more repatriation flights and government assistance.

Investors are seeing the same thing as the share price is the same as it was in mid May before the latest round of domestic border closures started and well above the March 2020 level.

To put it in context the share price is down 5% compared to the start of the year when we were a bit more optimistic with the vaccine on the way. If there was someone to be worried about it would be the Australian airline group who’s shares are down 42% compared to the start of the year that recently grounded all their domestic jets.......


ManillaChillaDilla 6th Aug 2021 00:37

Thanks Dr Dre.

MCD

Transition Layer 6th Aug 2021 12:37

I always knew Network would be our saviour! Thank goodness they’ve been flying the whole time with no stand downs :}

Street garbage 7th Aug 2021 02:34


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 11090724)
I always knew Network would be our saviour! Thank goodness they’ve been flying the whole time with no stand downs :}

Yep, they are.
They are even recruiting whilst JQ and SH pilots are stood down.
Amazing business.

Foxxster 8th Aug 2021 09:35


has this been posted anywhere

disturbing

Tucknroll 8th Aug 2021 09:48


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11091718)
https://youtu.be/uafWhCv-Xd4

has this been posted anywhere

disturbing

Disturbing for our jobs? Sure.

Disturbing for safety? It’s no more disturbing than controlled rest.

Turnleft080 8th Aug 2021 10:21


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11091722)
Disturbing for our jobs? Sure.

Disturbing for safety? It’s no more disturbing than controlled rest.

Just can't see FAA or CASA approving it. The DC-9 in 1965 DoT back then took a lot of convincing to operate the aircraft in
Australian skies. They never wanted an Ansett 767 operated by 2 crew either.
One crew in a A350 can't see it happening, not even AJ and his sunrise project would think it's safe (-a F/O cost ).

ruprecht 8th Aug 2021 10:58

Andreas Lubitz had entered the chat.

Tucknroll 8th Aug 2021 11:19


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11091753)
Andreas Lubitz had entered the chat.

He did what he did in a two crew operation…

ruprecht 8th Aug 2021 11:34


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11091761)
He did what he did in a two crew operation…

That is correct. However, I can’t imagine spending hours alone in the middle of the night would be conducive to good mental health.

Tucknroll 8th Aug 2021 11:56


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11091772)
That is correct. However, I can’t imagine spending hours alone in the middle of the night would be conducive to good mental health.

Depends who the person next to you is…

ruprecht 8th Aug 2021 12:09


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11091785)
Depends who the person next to you is…

Haha, but even the bad ones give you something to talk about with the next bloke.

Chronic Snoozer 8th Aug 2021 23:16


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11091772)
That is correct. However, I can’t imagine spending hours alone in the middle of the night would be conducive to good mental health.

It could be the one time having multiple personalities is useful, someone to talk to.

Beer Baron 8th Aug 2021 23:37


Originally Posted by Tucknroll (Post 11091722)
Disturbing for safety? It’s no more disturbing than controlled rest.

Oh please, 20mins of controlled rest Vs potentially 4 hours single pilot in the middle of the night. One is never in a deep sleep during controlled rest so the recovery time is much shorter.

Additionally, with controlled rest, the pilot is already in the seat.
Handling a complex failure (QF30 oxy bottle explosion, QF72 ADIRU failure, QF44 multiple electrical failure) while having to additionally call the other pilot back from the crew rest, wait for them to get dressed, make their way back from the crew rest that’s above the cabin, comply with cockpit access protocols and return to the seat, while they are in a fog from waking from a deep sleep, is not the same as controlled rest.

Let alone the chance the single pilot has also now slipped into uncontrolled rest due to the shear boredom of being alone on a flight deck for hours in the middle of the night. Gonna be tough to react well now.

KRviator 8th Aug 2021 23:45


Originally Posted by ruprecht (Post 11091772)
That is correct. However, I can’t imagine spending hours alone in the middle of the night would be conducive to good mental health.

Why not? I've done it for a decade driving trains under Driver Only Operation and I'm fine. I think. Put your music on, make a cuppa and get comfy and enjoy the trip. The difficult part is if you haven't got a good rest the day prior. Wonder if they'll have a Vigilance system installed to keep the pilot awake? Push a button every 5 minutes of an alarm goes off...

For CAsA or the FAA to deny it's certification, they're going to have to have hard data to support their position. Airbus and Cathay only have to argue there's an equivalent level of safety in single pilot operations as there is in two-pilot operations to get the approval I'd imagine. How they'll manage the concept of pilot incapacitation will be interesting, but given Rio Tinto have got approval for autonomous heavy haul trains, I wouldn't say this concept will never get approved! And yes, I'm well aware of the difference between planes, trains and automobiles, thank you very much, but for those thinking the second pilot is indispensable, think again, is all I'm saying...

cloudsurfng 9th Aug 2021 00:16

I didnt watch the video. Australian governments have made life depressing enough.

what if you are the single pilot and you need to take a dump?

ruprecht 9th Aug 2021 00:38


Originally Posted by cloudsurfng (Post 11092084)
what if you are the single pilot and you need to take a dump?

You go drive trains, obviously.

Keg 9th Aug 2021 01:19


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11092071)
For CAsA or the FAA to deny it's certification, they're going to have to have hard data to support their position.

Shouldn't it be on the manufacturers to show no decrease in risk profile? Straight up I can think of numerous things that make this option 'less safe'.


Xeptu 9th Aug 2021 01:58

I don't see it as ever being one single pilot alone even though it's do-able. I do see the FO being a self contained robot. The hardest part of robotics is mobility, since it will be permanently seated that's not an issue. The rest has already been done, it just needs to evolve to the specific task. Because data is sharable from the Captains perspective it'll be like flying with the same robot every time.

10 years away I think and we'll start to see that as a happening thing.

Lookleft 9th Aug 2021 02:47

The other issue regarding this great leap forward from Airbus is that Lufthansa has already said it won't be going down that path as it doesn't meet their safety criteria. One issue they identified was the issue BB addressed and that was the time taken for the other pilot to get back into the flight deck and up to speed on a possible emergency. So I don't think Qantas is going to go down the Cathay path but more than likely align itself with Lufthansa.

Street garbage 9th Aug 2021 04:13

Has Qantas ordered the A350?
When was Mainline's last order? Oh, that's right December 2005, for the 787.
I don't know how this thread has diverged into Single Pilot A350 ops...but I seriously doubt this is going to be a factor for QF in the next 10 years, considering how risk adverse the QF Group and CASA are.

Turnleft080 9th Aug 2021 04:15

How about a remake of "2001 Space Odyssey" that should scare the crap out of passengers.

Capt: Computer I'm off to the lav, you have control.
Comp: OK Capt I have control.
Capt: Computer I have fished up here you can let me in now password is ........
Comp: Sorry Capt I can't do that.
Capt: I'm the Capt let me in.
Comp: Sorry Capt you said I have control and that's what I have been programmed to do.
I have also disabled the flight deck door unlocking mechanism.

to be continued

Sue Ridgepipe 9th Aug 2021 04:34


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11092118)
How about a remake of "2001 Space Odyssey" that should scare the crap out of passengers.

Capt: Computer I'm off to the lav, you have control.
Comp: OK Capt I have control.
Capt: Computer I have fished up here you can let me in now password is ........
Comp: Sorry Capt I can't do that.
Capt: I'm the Capt let me in.
Comp: Sorry Capt you said I have control and that's what I have been programmed to do.
I have also disabled the flight deck door unlocking mechanism.

to be continued

Just put the crapper inside the cockpit - problem solved.

Blueskymine 9th Aug 2021 06:31


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11092101)
I don't see it as ever being one single pilot alone even though it's do-able. I do see the FO being a self contained robot. The hardest part of robotics is mobility, since it will be permanently seated that's not an issue. The rest has already been done, it just needs to evolve to the specific task. Because data is sharable from the Captains perspective it'll be like flying with the same robot every time.

10 years away I think and we'll start to see that as a happening thing.

Still flying the same jets that I started off flying in my jet career.

Some of the guys I’ve flown with retired flying the one jet for their entire career.

Something tells me I’ll still be flying this jet for the rest of my career too.

bb744 9th Aug 2021 07:54

Hmmm, single pilot. Let's just brush aside without comment or consideration from a regulatory viewpoint, single pilot uncontrolled rest.. Has happened many times in the dual situation , activation electrodes next? Ha Ha. Heven forbid.

Xeptu 9th Aug 2021 08:10

You guys are safe, it wont be a retrofit, new aircraft will be designed that way, single human pilot on the flight deck with no need to enter the cabin area at all. Sleeping lounge below for the resting crew member. I think Airbus is preparing us for it, prove it can be done single pilot so there is less argument with a much more sophisticated pilot. The flight deck is there for the human pilots benefit and as redundancy, but the robot won't need to look at and interpret any of the flight instruments. It has all that capability within itself and is self contained.
Imagine if we humans were able to see and know everything you need in our 3 dimensional environment without having to look at it.

Paragraph377 9th Aug 2021 08:38

It doesn’t surprise me that ‘single flight deck operations’ has come up again. AI is being developed at an exponential rate. The corporate world see that as a means to remove the human interface. This logic also applies to risk management and predictive algorithms. The problem is, some intellects are hedging their bets that AI is ultimately smarter than a human being. Sure, there are some things that a computer can do faster but a computer doesn’t have a conscience, gut instinct or is able to smell or feel a problem at times before a human can. Even Elon Musk, love him or hate him, has said that AI is growing a rate of great concern.

V-Jet 9th Aug 2021 12:50

I do get the point, but I'd FAR rather have AI in AJ's position than AJ - but I certainly wouldn't trust him on any flight deck.

Zeta_Reticuli 9th Aug 2021 13:37


Originally Posted by V-Jet (Post 11092349)
I do get the point, but I'd FAR rather have AI in AJ's position than AJ - but I certainly wouldn't trust him on any flight deck.

If there is any job that AI should be replacing humans in, it is management and administrative roles! I do not think AI could do a much worse job than the sycophants in the corporate world today!

Capn Rex Havoc 9th Aug 2021 22:26

100% it will come. Sooner rather than later. When elevators became operator less, there was a huge back lash from the elevator operators - strikes etc. Execs stating they would use the stairs rather than an elevator without a human etc. Fast forward to today- If you saw an elevator operator in your building you would be bemused. The technology is definitely getting there for single pilot airline ops (and not much further on from that completely autonomous).

MelbourneFlyer 9th Aug 2021 22:33

Claim of misguided Covid advice sparks legal action against Qantas

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...fd6a2d573ba49e


Qantas advised cleaning staff in the early days of the pandemic that the virus could be transmitted only between people who shared a bed, and it could not survive for long on surfaces, the Transport Workers Union claims.

The misguided advice forms part of a new lawsuit brought by the union against the airline over the treatment of a cleaner who refused to service aircraft returning from China.

According to a statement of claim lodged in the Fair Work Commission, the part-time worker and union representative began receiving complaints from co-workers about the health risks posed by those flights in late January 2020.

When some of the cleaners *refused to board planes that had carried Chinese passengers, he told management at Qantas Ground Services they were within their rights to do so under the Workplace Health and Safety Act. The next day, a doctor engaged by Qantas addressed a meeting at QGS, telling those present it was very difficult for Covid-19 to be passed from one human to another unless they lived together, and shared utensils and a bed.

According to the cleaner’s recollection of the meeting, the doctor also claimed Covid-19 did not last long on surfaces.

When the cleaner escalated the matter by posting on a workplace Facebook group that there was a major risk to the extent the government had closed the border with China and workers had a legislative right to refuse unsafe work, he was called into a meeting with managers.

It was then decided to stand down the cleaner while an internal investigation was undertaken as he was “causing anxiety to workers”.

Qantas asserted the decision was made because the cleaner had tried to incite unprotected industrial action, and he should have known he was not authorised to direct other workers not to service aircraft from China.

The TWU’s statement of claim said the investigation into the cleaner’s conduct failed to progress, and then Qantas announced plans to outsource all its ground-handling operations.

As a result, the cleaner was made redundant and the investigation abandoned, leaving him “distressed, upset and anxious”.

In response to his treatment, the TWU claimed Qantas had taken prohibited adverse action by preventing him from exercising his rights as a health and safety representative, and sought relief in the form of compensation for “economic and non-economic loss”.

The union also asked that the commission impose a penalty on Qantas for “contraventions of the Fair Work Act” with any penalties levied to be paid to the TWU.

Qantas was expected to defend the allegations, pointing out there was not a single positive Covid case on flights back from China.

“We know this through extensive contract tracing done by health authorities at the time,” said a Qantas spokesman.

It is the latest in a string of lawsuits brought by the TWU against Qantas, relating to JobKeeper payments, sick leave entitlements and outsourcing.

In a recent judgment, the Federal Court ruled the outsourcing of 2000 ground-handling workers by Qantas was based on a prohibited reason, namely, concern they would strike in 2021 during enterprise negotiations.

Lookleft 9th Aug 2021 23:26


100% it will come. Sooner rather than later. When elevators became operator less,
Yeah because elevators are just like aeroplanes...... When did autoland first get approved and when did Australia approve it? Humans had the technology to go to the moon and back in 1969 (technically 1968 without the landing bit) and yet here we are 50 years later still trying to reinvent the wheel. Just because technology exists doesn't automatically mean that it is going to be adopted on a scale that will make fundamental changes to the way flying is conducted. With the conservative approach taken to getting new technology certified in aviation then it will definitely be later rather than sooner before single pilot and zero pilot airliners are crossing vast amounts of international airspace. On top of that the planet is going to be cooked by 2030 according to the UN and air travel is going to have a lot more to worry about than replacing two biological, non-binary autopilots with their digital AI equivalents.

Xeptu 9th Aug 2021 23:44


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 11092634)
Yeah because elevators are just like aeroplanes...... When did autoland first get approved and when did Australia approve it? Humans had the technology to go to the moon and back in 1969 (technically 1968 without the landing bit) and yet here we are 50 years later still trying to reinvent the wheel. Just because technology exists doesn't automatically mean that it is going to be adopted on a scale that will make fundamental changes to the way flying is conducted. With the conservative approach taken to getting new technology certified in aviation then it will definitely be later rather than sooner before single pilot and zero pilot airliners are crossing vast amounts of international airspace. On top of that the planet is going to be cooked by 2030 according to the UN and air travel is going to have a lot more to worry about than replacing two biological, non-binary autopilots with their digital AI equivalents.

I see a future where there aren't a lot of us in it. No-one has a job as such, we don't want for anything and are truly equal. Treated more like exotic pets. An AI and machines that do everything, taken for granted and only a very few think how cool is that. :)

Lookleft 10th Aug 2021 00:30

Thats where Marxism meets Asimov!

Xeptu 10th Aug 2021 01:36


Originally Posted by Lookleft (Post 11092649)
Thats where Marxism meets Asimov!

Indeed it does and validates both Marxism and Asimovs fourth law, if we are determined to cause our own extinction.
There's a movie titled "I AM MOTHER" which depicts that principle, worth a watch because it's relevant to todays technology.

SHVC 10th Aug 2021 01:40

AJ will be long gone before project sunrise departs or single pilot jets ever arrive. QF will be fighting for survival for the next few yrs.

Turnleft080 10th Aug 2021 03:12


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11092666)
Indeed it does and validates both Marxism and Asimovs fourth law, if we are determined to cause our own extinction.
There's a movie titled "I AM MOTHER" which depicts that principle, worth a watch because it's relevant to todays technology.

I AM MOTHER just saw the trailer on YouTube looks scary
These kids on this clip pretty much sums it up as well back in 1966. Atomic bombs, robots taking over, ice ages, living squashed, etc.
They look to be speaking their own mind, very much more articulate than todays kids and without social phone devices.

Lookleft 10th Aug 2021 03:51

My comment was firmly with my tongue in my cheek! All that movie highlights is what anti-nuclear, anti-vaxxer doomsday merchants looked like when they were at school. You do realise that they are the very boomers that you despise now for their wealth and free ride on society.

TurningTheSpanners 10th Aug 2021 04:14


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11092598)
100% it will come. Sooner rather than later.

Much sooner?

Where's the navigator, radio operator and flight engineer?

In (most of) our lifetimes if someone had said that we'll be flying airplanes over the Pacific without a flight engineer they would have been thought crazy.

Heck, I can remember when we had flight engineers 'shooting the stars' on Christmas Island flights.

Possibly not our kids, but our grandkids will think nothing of getting in an airplane and seeing a flight attendant at the FAP entering..

FROM..YSSY T1 Gate 34 TO EGLL T3 Gate 29..GO




Street garbage 10th Aug 2021 07:30

..and all this speculation about single pilot ops has what to do with Qantas Post Covid? Yeah, thought so...nothing

Start up another thread if you want to discuss this.


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