Originally Posted by SandyPalms
(Post 10807229)
Webinar called for tomorrow. They only seem to have them when something has been announced. Any rumours from today’s meeting?
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Webinars shouldn’t scare you, announcements to the asx should (no there hasn’t been one announced today).
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Originally Posted by boundary
(Post 10807350)
Rumour of 5000 jobs to be cut - announcement before the end of June.
I would say that’s highly likely. |
Originally Posted by ozbiggles
(Post 10807241)
Webinars shouldn’t scare you, announcements to the asx should (no there hasn’t been one announced today).
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
(Post 10807229)
Webinar called for tomorrow. They only seem to have them when something has been announced. Any rumours from today’s meeting?
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Originally Posted by boundary
(Post 10807350)
Rumour of 5000 jobs to be cut - announcement before the end of June.
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Legend has it that posters on pprune using their ‘first’ post to shock and awe generally work in sewage farms. If said person has the real info then they have just released market sensitive information which comes with a hefty fine.
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
(Post 10807594)
to be honest, in a company of 30,000 employees an initial target of 5,000 is not as bad as it could be in current circumstances. Many will be saved by consultation and efficiencies.
This time if the numbers are similar I’d imagine the surplus of pilots would probably be taken care of with expected upcoming retirements and the existing stand down arrangements. But obviously if there is no international flying for a while and no 4 engined flying for a little longer than that there’s going to be an excess in a lot of other roles that don’t require the long lead in training times pilots need. There’ll probably be a cut in international cabin crew, along with other roles supporting international. The need to find efficiencies in hard economic times means a lot of middle management positions will go. |
So Qantas will keep all its pilots while the rest of the worlds airlines can’t/don’t keep theirs. I’d like to see that, I really would. But It’s not going to happen. But I guess AirNZ parking up its 777 fleet in the desert isn’t enough of a hint. 2014 was a relatively predictable economic cyclic thing. This isn’t that.
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Originally Posted by ozbiggles
(Post 10807673)
So Qantas will keep all its pilots while the rest of the worlds airlines can’t/don’t keep theirs. I’d like to see that, I really would. But It’s not going to happen. But I guess AirNZ parking up its 777 fleet in the desert isn’t enough of a hint. 2014 was a relatively predictable economic cyclic thing. This isn’t that.
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Originally Posted by dr dre
(Post 10807692)
The key difference between Australian and New Zealand IR law is that Australia has provisions for unpaid stand downs, NZ doesn’t. In the US they have a sort of similar thing called furlough.
Thankfully none of the majors in the U.S have enacted the abhorrent actions of Qantas management. Pilots are being paid, Early retirement and long term paid leaves are being offered. The extent and scope are company dependent.
Originally Posted by dr dre
means a lot of middle management positions will go.
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Originally Posted by JPJP
(Post 10807855)
Thankfully none of the majors in the U.S have enacted the abhorrent actions of Qantas management. Pilots are being paid,
there seem to be a lot of people who are still “f$&k the company at all costs” yeah that’s a great plan in the COVID world. Sadly you won’t be going back to your 550k Quad Skipper wage and if you think you are, you are delusional 🙄 |
The US airlines are constrained by their government aid packages that prohibit furloughs until October. After that though most industry observers are expecting wholesale lay-offs and downgrades. Seniority systems in North America require LIFO and open bidding for every position which of course causes a training cascade. Those obligations are written into contracts that did not anticipate a pandemic so there may be airlines that seek relief in the courts including Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see our government extend job keeper for the airline and tourism sectors. |
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
(Post 10807916)
You people won’t stop will you.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c52fbcc84c.gif
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
(Post 10807916)
Im not sticking up for management but don’t you suspect if pilots were getting a full wage then QF would already be an Air NZ with a third of its pilots SACKED?
Originally Posted by Green.Dot
(Post 10807916)
I’ll take my JobKeeper.
Below is an example of not immediately throwing everyone under the bus, also known as ‘stand down’ (at Qantas). Still paying employees and still looking after each other. https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielr...ival-airlines/ |
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
(Post 10807922)
The US airlines are constrained by their government aid packages that prohibit furloughs until October. After that though most industry observers are expecting wholesale lay-offs and downgrades. Seniority systems in North America require LIFO and open bidding for every position which of course causes a training cascade. Those obligations are written into contracts that did not anticipate a pandemic so there may be airlines that seek relief in the courts including Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see our government extend job keeper for the airline and tourism sectors. Hopefully the paid leaves and early paid retirement will take care of the flex. Although, if an airlines management decides to use this as an opportunity to slash and burn (British Airways) then anything’s possible. It’ll depend on culture, money and the level of sociopathy at the top. Add the latter, and an Irishman; then it may be ugly. Good luck to BA and Qantas :E |
Originally Posted by JPJP
(Post 10807855)
No. A furlough means you have been made redundant. You have no job, and no connection to your previous company, other than the right of return in seniority order.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fac...flsa-furloughs
Originally Posted by JPJP
(Post 10807990)
Uhhhh ? A third of Air NZ pilots have been sacked ? No.
Air New Zealand announces 3500 job losses due to Covid-19 pandemic WED, MAY 20 • SOURCE: 1 NEWS https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...id-19-pandemic Air New Zealand are sacking 3500 employees out of a workforce of about 10,500 - that's a third. Do you think they're getting rid of everyone other than pilots? |
Once again...the US airlines cannot stand down employees until October. That was a fundamental condition of the aid they got in April. The rest of that Forbes puff piece is at complete odds with reality. At least until there is widespread inoculation the US isn’t going to see returns to 2019 flying. That said, I have always been an admirer of Southwest's relationship with their employees.
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Just look at what's happening in the middle east carriers at the moment - large numbers of pilots who thought they had jobs for life, are now out of work.
Australia can't be immune from this. A lot will hinge on how jobkeeper is treated after September. |
Originally Posted by Arctaurus
(Post 10808011)
Just look at what's happening in the middle east carriers at the moment - large numbers of pilots who thought they had jobs for life, are now out of work.
Australia can't be immune from this. A lot will hinge on how jobkeeper is treated after September. Don’t forget, QF group announced the stand downs (march 19th) before jobkeeper was announced by the government (March 30th). After September, staff could simply remain stood down with no government subsidy, as was the initial intent of the stand downs. However, there seems to be a good chance Jobkeeper will be extended for aviation beyond September, as the government moves towards a more industry selective approach to the scheme. |
However, there seems to be a good chance Jobkeeper will be extended for aviation beyond September, as the government moves towards a more industry selective approach to the scheme. |
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