So junior Pilot A takes LWOP for 12 months.

Not so junior Pilot B gets made CR and gets associated payout.

12 months comes around and guess what..flying is back...both Pilot A and Pilot B come back.

12 months comes around and guess what...no flying is back... Pilot A faces new choice LWOP or CR. Pilot B makes the yearly required contact to stay on ‘the list’.

9 months come round and the company can offer employment to Pilot A or Pilot B but not both. Pilot B gets the phone call.

It’s my humble opinion any desire to ‘play’ the system to your advantage is misguided. IF VR numbers were too low and the company wish to deal to a surplus, by all means take LWOP, but any perceived benefits are probably just that.

As others have pointed out VR/CR manages a surplus. LWOP does not. If I were faced with the current predicament, as I was previously, I would say Sit Tight! If things go south take your payment and get on with life. The phone will ring one day.

Also don’t forget the potential impact on Qantas red tail subsidiaries with Mainline CR

You missed one critical point.

ALL LWOP pilots will return before they start calling the retrenchment list. The retrenchment list is only activated once external recruitment begins again.

There’s more pros to pilot A and more cons to pilot B.

Can you elaborate on your last sentence?

A Mainline CR, even in long haul, may create constraints for Network and Jetconnect to recruit. What about Qlink recruitment? If there was recruitment who might ‘through a fair and balanced recruitment process’ get the gig? More questions than answers...but my gut says don’t jump.

A word about culture for our recently ex-RAAF crew:

Years ago I was flying with an ex-RAAF pilot a couple of days after Geoff Dixon assured the F/Os that they would all be captains within five years. He was disgusted with me because I voiced my cynicism about that particular promise. That’s when I realised that he grew up working for superiors who had honour and integrity. So for those who listen to corporate managers, please understand that they are not playing by the same rules that you might think.

I don’t care either way if someone takes LWOP, but I don’t believe that leavers will be able to either leapfrog a senior or be certain of being ring-fenced from CR when the cost delta is so high. Money talks. BS walks.

The most sensible thing I’ve read here so far. As Normanton pointed out on another thread, he/she has slid back into their old job. LWOP becomes an easy option then. The rest of us who have spent the last 15+ years flying jets with a Kangaroo on the tail aren’t so fortunate.

Pay me CR if you want and I will put the money and time towards a new qualification, or start a business so I never have to be held to ransom by pr1cks like TLS again!

I think you are right and wrong..you’d be coming back at essentially the same time.

I still think no CR will be required.

Sorry for my ignorance.
Why does a Pilot on LWOP get a bypass for retrenchment if there is a surplus of numbers ?
What ever happened to last on first off ?
Can somebody more erudite than I , point out the Legislation empowering Managements assertions reference this latest flogging .

they have bypass discretion and they are using it to hold everyone to ransom.

Not true, pilots are called back in seniority order - whether from LWOP
or the retrenched list.

LH EA 15.10.2 (b).
All there in black and white. :ugh:

Not true.
When on LWOP you are still employed by Qantas. They will call their employees back to work first. If you were made Compulsory Redundant sadly you are no longer employed and therefore will have to wait until they recruit externally. This was explained in a recent Webinar.

The ability to Bypass an individual from CR on LWOP Is detailed in the EA. The company "may" do this, they have now stated they "will". Another threat ? Who knows but they are playing a devious game as usual.

If as above you are correct then what happens if you take two years LWOP and they need pilots after one year who comes back first the pilot on CR or can the pilot on LWOP returning earlier than the LWOP that he took Instead of the more senior pilot who was compulsory made redundant? The bottom line is a Pandora’s box has been opened and like a royal commission do you want to go to FWA without knowing what the result will be.

Dragon man. If that scenario were to eventuate and they needed pilots back in 12 month's, then they would contact those on LWOP and ask them if they could or would like to return early. If they could not get sufficient numbers to do that and they needed more, then it is back to recruiting again starting with the Redundancy List.
it is a mess

I don’t agree with you and we can go round and round in circles till FWA make a decision and neither of us knows what that will be. To further complicate matters pilots who turn 65 are not and IMO can’t be forced to retire from Qantas. So, As there are no vacancies in SH are they A) redundant B) can they remain on stand down until there are SH vacancies, accruing leave entitlements and if in a defined benefit super scheme increased super or C) can they be forced to retire. Only FWA can tell us personally I favour B and if that was so it is a nightmare for Qantas.

Ok, so if these numbers are known then why are they not communicated? If as you say the company have x number of pilots in line for VR/CR regardless of how many take LWOP, if it’s so black and white, why don’t they state those numbers? If it’s the 190 then that will probably be absorbed by VR.

LWOP most definitely takes care of a surplus. That’s exactly what happened post GFC. The surplus was solved by pilots scattering everywhere over the planet. Again, given the option of offering more LWOP vs paying CR why would the company take the CR path?

I don’t care if you don’t agree Regarding LWOP and Redundancy- read the EA. It’s all there.

the answer is C.

they can no longer fulfill the requirements of their role.

In your opinion, however I can tell you that they are not forcing long haul pilots who reach 65 at the moment to retire and that’s because in my opinion they can’t and they know it.