Since we are all throwing wild allegations out there. My guess is 800 pilots surplus to requirements over the next 2 years. Pilots to exit the business through use of VR, LWOP, retirements, and CR.

Once the announcement is made to the ASX (share price goes up), discussions will swiftly start with AIPA (as mentioned by the CP) to enforce Allan's grand plan. Take what your offered or be made redundant.

I’m with IsDon. I can foresee redundancies across office and other areas depending on the nature of EAs. I can even foresee as many as 10K from across the group. CR for mainline pilots? Not at this stage. It probably depends on how flexible the majority of pilots want to be in order to save jobs.

They want pilots to take LWOP at their own volition as it means they don’t have to pay them their 51 days of LSL and annual leave as we are now accumulating. Also I believe that CR has become a big problem as there is a belief that under a CR pilots under the long haul contract would then have the ability to displace pilots in short haul which they can’t do under a RIN using the integration clauses in the contract. Confused? So am I.

they have said repeatedly that there will be opportunities both domestically and internationally, so nothing will be happening to 737/330/787.

With regards to redundancy are you saying a SH pilot can be displaced by a LH pilot even if the LH pilot is more junior? Or are you saying they can be made redundant in seniority order, irrespective of which haul they are in?

In redundancy, there is still no displacement. The hauls are separate.

Further, in response to a junior SH pilot, TLS replied ‘you’re in a pretty good spot’.

I’ll say it again there is a belief that under a CR and the integration document a pilot facing CR from long haul can displace a more junior pilot in short haul. Don’t attack the messenger it is above my pay grade, I see where it is coming from but I’m sure there will be different views from different lawyers depending on who is paying them.

Let me guess. The company is saying LH can't displace SH (because it saves them money on training costs). But more senior pilots and or AIPA are of the belief that they can.

Well that's headed to the courts.

Yes, that is correct

Ha! This would be hilarious. So the bottom couple hundred 737 crews get made redundant and now a couple hundred ex career LHers have to get their heads around the 737 operation while commuting to PER and ADL - hard at the best of times but utterly masochistic on a limited domestic network - to fly a bunch of early Pilbaras or crew a handful of reserve days.
:hmm:

What? So if there are 200 pilots made redundant (pulling that figure out of my a*se), isn't it the bottom 200 on the list regardless of position?

Thats how the EA reads - last on, first off. Purely by seniority number.

There are 2 different EA’s. Does what it says in the LHEA apply to anybody on the SHEA. What a mess.

Without looking at the seniority list - the last couple of hundred - using your figures - would be a mix of A380/A330/787 SOs and very junior 737 FOs.

Who would fill the vacancies? Probably no one in the short term, but I reckon a few career LHers might want the chance? Hard to tell. Depends how much this current crisis has altered their mindset?

For QF Mainline It’s not ‘displacement’ as such. CR is last on first off- Any Haul! After the CR is complete everyone grabs a chair where their seniority lands with the remaining chairs. Tino’s comment to the Junior SH lad was simply saying he is less likely to be stood down like, say a, A380 pilot. Obviously they don’t want to run an extensive CR program as it’s will cost a fortune. SU gets around this for now. Reduction in heads is inevitable. Reduction in Tech crew heads is a little more tricky.

Add to the mix - what does the Integration Agreement say?

A mess is right. A mess QF will need to sort out if it goes down the CR path.

Integration Agreement, section 16. Basically redundancies will come from the bottom of the Q seniority list, not the SH or LH EA you are on.

The integration agreement says new hire pilots will be made redundant before Q or A list pilots. (Not sure where that is on the list, but if it gets that far there are big problems!). It then says pilots will be made redundant in accordance with the “Pilots Agreement”. which agreement are you on? That will be the question...

I’ve always been of the understanding the seniority applied, but only within the agreement I was on when it came to redundancy. ie, things don’t looks great for LH at the moment, it could just as easily be SH next time.

it would seem this is the company position as well.

im confident now however, that CR will be avoided.

As Gazza stated, in a Redundancy situation regardless of which haul it is purely on Seniority number as current agreements stand.

In a RIN in LH , SH can not be touched as per displacements, however the company could choose to make SH positions available to bid to as they did in the 767 RIN.

Its pretty cut and dry, I don’t believe a heavy CR will be pursued for pilots right now, (too expensive) they will prefer extended standown. Not ruling it out but training costs will be too high while no one in the world knows when LH flights will resume.

The other issue is an amendment to the EA, but that requires majority vote by members in that EA.

Or the nuclear option could be QF go to fair work to demand redundancy on fleet and rank out of seniority, which would be fairly unlikely to succeed seeing as they forced in the LH vote during the Virus period.