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-   -   QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/633072-qf-group-possible-redundancy-numbers-packages.html)

Street garbage 16th Jun 2020 08:05


Originally Posted by Gazza mate (Post 10811917)
Careful oicur12. Pilots are loosing their livelihood and some have gone further than ďsoil their stridesĒ. Just look at whatís happened at EK in the last week. Very sad. I donít think itís amusing at all.

Some people will always gloat at other's misfortune.
What a low life comment.

Street garbage 16th Jun 2020 08:13


Originally Posted by oicur12.again (Post 10811727)
Not legal.

But it is amusing watching pilots soil their strides at the thought of losing almost exclusivity in the workplace.

What a low life comment, gloating at other's misfortune. Are you looking for a job in management? Or just trying to climb the greasy pole?

oicur12.again 16th Jun 2020 21:28


Originally Posted by Gazza mate (Post 10811917)
Careful oicur12. Pilots are loosing their livelihood and some have gone further than ďsoil their stridesĒ. Just look at whatís happened at EK in the last week. Very sad. I donít think itís amusing at all.

I agree, the loss of jobs occurring is very stressful and I have several friends in dire circumstances. There is nothing funny at all about job loss and I didn't mean to imply anything to the contrary.

What is amusing and the subject of my previous post is that even in these desperate times, men are still conspiracy theorizing about mythical quotas that could see women move beyond the pathetic 5% of the cockpit seats they presently occupy.

Hence my comment about exclusivity.

It's something our friend from NZ in later comments clearly does not understand.



Pundit 17th Jun 2020 01:38

Isn't a pilot a pilot a pilot? Or at least I thought that was the case.

TimmyTee 17th Jun 2020 02:35

The point was, even if it’s only 5%, if a group of them are made redundant, there will no doubt be a push by HR to re-employ at a different, more “equal” ratio down the track..

slats11 17th Jun 2020 04:04

Back in February on another thread, I was warning this was going to be huge. I was repeatedly told "this virus has nothing to do with aviation so take your opinions elsewhere", as well as receiving the benefit of several lessons in high school math regarding exponential growth curves and log functions.

Anyway, that was a few months ago. I think the latest data suggests fairly strongly that we are further through this than we think, and that society overall will recover a bit faster than many think. Look at the ASX and NYSE.

I don't think there will be a devastating 2nd wave. Yes cases will increase as measures are relaxed. However there is very little chance we will need to lockdown again.

Sure, cases are increasing in parts of the USA. Behind the headline total numbers however, the % hospitalised and the % who die are falling significantly. The explanation is that with increased testing capacity, they are finding more of the milder cases that were always there but not diagnosed initially. It now appears clear the mortality rate is way under 1% (and closer to 0.1% for those under 60).

However, it will be a very different world for aviation for years to come
1. Fewer pax overall
2. Likely smaller aircraft - not sure the 380 is coming back to service anytime soon
3. Possibly more point-to-point flying, and less use of highly congested hubs
4. Fewer high yield business pax (J and full fare Y). Businesses will be saying "Zoom worked pretty well for 6 months ....."
5. A greater proportion of deeply discounted leisure pax in Y

So aviation will recover sooner than we think. But it will be a different world. Airlines and their workforce will need to plan accordingly.

Embrace change, or else it will embrace you.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 17th Jun 2020 05:16

https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...hcOp82UzxwEQpM

Qantas looks to mothball it’s flagship Airbus A380s

Telfer86 17th Jun 2020 05:37

TT , QF can employ 100% diversity if or when they chose if they employ externals

Compulsory redundancies are re-employed in seniority order

So why does diversity employment atm even rate a mention

Mainline didn't employ externals for 8 years post GFC , so long time to employ any externals now

Just take the very generous & prescriptive CR dollars and put the guaranteed re-employment slip in your back pocket

Your leader will probably be sipping pink daiquiris at a luxurious penthouse on South Beach or yodeling from atop a luxurious villa in the Swiss Alps by that time
but you can't change that

SandyPalms 17th Jun 2020 05:59

the A380 fleet will only ever return to maximum of six. That confirms it. The aircraft the haven’t been redone are finished.

Ollie Onion 17th Jun 2020 07:26

I have heard that Jetstar is planning on the 787 being grounded for another 9 months, so no realistic plans for international travel until March/April 2021.

Icarus2001 17th Jun 2020 07:33


so no realistic plans for international travel until March/April 2021.
Not really realistic given that there is a small amount of international travel even now. This will lift faster and harder than the media are portraying. Their focus now is second wave fear.

Keg 17th Jun 2020 07:47

Even when the borders do open up I can’t see the demand coming back for another 12+ months beyond that for 500 seats a day between SYD/ MEL and LAX, or SYD/MEL- LHR.

I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesn’t have enough of!

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 17th Jun 2020 07:51


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 10813017)
Even when the borders do open up I canít see the demand coming back for another 12+ months beyond that for 500 seats a day between SYD/ MEL and LAX, or SYD/MEL- LHR.

I can see demand coming back that would require smaller aeroplanes to fly that schedule though. Aeroplanes that Qantas currently doesnít have enough of!

If QF took JQs 11 787s that would be 22 787s and 28 A330s. Would that be enough to cover QFs international network post COVID?

ozbiggles 17th Jun 2020 07:51

Really?
Qantas and Air NZ parking up their international fleets in deserts fills you full of confidence?
2nd waves breaking out in the States fills you full of confidence?
The majority of cases in NZ and Aus are being bought in from overseas fills you full of confidence?
The tourism minister today saying he doesnít know when it is going to happen and saying the tourism industry is going to be hit the longest fills you with confidence?
You are not seeing travel at the moment, you are seeing citizens returning home for a 14 day stay in a hotel.
I mean Iíd love to have a leprechaun to find me a pot of gold but I think I will tune into reality first.



Keg 17th Jun 2020 08:00


Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE (Post 10813023)
If QF took JQs 11 787s that would be 22 787s and 28 A330s. Would that be enough to cover QFs international network post COVID?

Yes but Iíve been told previously the JQ 787s are Ďunsuitableí to be converted to mainline configuration (crew rest the biggest issue but not the only one) and QF would be better off just sourcing new airframes and trying to sell the JQ airframes. That said, theyíve already put out an EOI for at least some of those airframes and Iím not sure they have received or will receive much interest in them.

Of course if a vaccine is discovered before the end of the year then itís going to be a V and I can see demand for the A380s coming back pretty quickly. Without that vaccine though.....

Telfer86 17th Jun 2020 08:24

You guys need to get a grasp of reality

The Chief Medical Officers say vaccine 12 to 18 months "best case" ; 18 months is a "best case" , that is September 2021

A vaccine to this point has never been successfully developed for any Coronavirus

Our state borders remain closed

If you are back to 50% of international two years post pandemic - well that would be incredible


dragon man 17th Jun 2020 08:45

Let’s face some reality if I may. There has never been a successful corona vaccine. The 6 380s go next month as I posted days ago, the 747s are finished, the Jetstar 787s can be used on some Qantas routes as they are ie Bali, New Zealand and domestic. The number of infections are surging in Mexico, South America, India, Pakistan and The Middle East. The death rate has dropped however BUT Florida as an example is reporting a mutation that makes it easier to spread. As the minister has said no international travel from Australia till 2021 and he didn’t say when in 2021. Qantas has to many long haul pilots and that’s a fact also I think it’s fair to say they don’t want to keep paying 51 days leave per year to pilots stood down. I think it’s fair to see there will be a VR. If that doesn’t get the numbers where they want them then they will look at other options. This doesn’t only apply tp pilots but CC , engineers, etc. Good luck to everyone and keep well.

Maggie Island 17th Jun 2020 09:08


Originally Posted by slats11 (Post 10812928)
Back in February on another thread, I was warning this was going to be huge. I was repeatedly told "this virus has nothing to do with aviation so take your opinions elsewhere", as well as receiving the benefit of several lessons in high school math regarding exponential growth curves and log functions.

Anyway, that was a few months ago. I think the latest data suggests fairly strongly that we are further through this than we think, and that society overall will recover a bit faster than many think. Look at the ASX and NYSE.

Letís not forget that the ASX/DJI hit their all time highs in mid-late Feb AFTER the initial travel bans had been enacted and more importantly after many experts in the field had warned of the severe impact.

The stock market isnít the worst indicator of where things are going but itís far from the best.

slats11 17th Jun 2020 09:58


A vaccine to this point has never been successfully developed for any Coronavirus
Yes. Previous CV vaccine research ran into problems. Far from being protective, vaccinated animals did worse when subsequently exposed to the virus. In the end, SARS disappeared and CV vaccine research was shelved with some warnings for future potential researchers.

A vaccine is possible. Sure. A lot of $ are being thrown at this. But it remains highly speculative. As do any plans dependent on a vaccine.


Telfer86 17th Jun 2020 10:09

Assume no vaccine - it hasn't been done before

If people were to hazard a guess what do you think the numbers let go around the group would be ? or %

Will it be similar to NZ mainline around 30 % , they let go 380 then 100 more ? Qlink ? , Jetstar ?

If those who have to leave can be re-employed with other QF group airlines , well that is way better than nothing


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