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-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

B772 15th Apr 2020 00:38

Houlihan Lokey are still looking at the books; especially the assets and due dates for the liabilities.

-41 15th Apr 2020 00:52

How many $ million a year do you think Branson pulls out of VAH in fees for the franchise, it would be around the same amount as the loss last FY.

wheels_down 15th Apr 2020 00:56

Iím nervous after that PM statement. Itís clear in that statement from the PM that they are not assisting. Bit hard to say that, then pull some 11th hour deal.

The Government isnít going to help. Looks like a Shorten government would have.

There is only really one option left. Branson to give them a loan. Thatís the last desperate measure before calling it a day. He didnít save Virgin America.

Iím feeling everyoneís pain. Iím quite angry actually. It didnít have to end like this. 20 years. What an absolute waste and will be the worst corporate disaster in my lifetime. Bryan and Borghetti need to be stripped of every single cent to their names.

We donít want some bottom feeding loco from the far north taking over. I hope David Neeleman sees an opportunity to bring his pride and joy down under, because my god it would be a weapon here. Thatís the sort of carrier we need here, what Virgin should have been, and what this market needs. Not a Lion or Air Asia.

ampclamp 15th Apr 2020 01:09

[QUOTE][/How many $ million a year do you think Branson pulls out of VAH in fees for the franchise,QUOTE]

I believe he has foregone those fees whilst the crisis goes on.

I also believe he propping Virgin Atlantic with a few hundred million.

ampclamp 15th Apr 2020 01:24

Well, that quote from Morrison is fairly clear cut.

Unless "industry wide" is code for a rescue for all equally. However i cannot see intervention as Virgin stands right now. As much as I want them to, I can see why they would not.

Administration likely if it goes on much longer. Major share holders disinterested in further cash being injected.

If it goes into admin, I believe the administrators can force holders to take a haircut and cut payments etc and hopefully get a structure that can live on with as many staff as they can carry.

Paragraph377 15th Apr 2020 01:24

Perhaps Scotty from Maketing, the Ďspeaking in tonguesí Pentecostal zealot will use prayer and a Hillsong singalong to solve all of Australiaís economic issues?? Címon Scomo, let it rip mate, apparently your personal sky fairy will help you and us!!

crosscutter 15th Apr 2020 01:34

The bondholders will be very keen to do a deal. Maybe a debt repayment : equity swap. There are plenty of options. I donít mean to give false hope rather highlight a government (AUS or SIN) loan is not the only option.

Wealthy individuals want VAH to survive. White knights do exist. This trading halt brings to a head these considerations. You donít buy a house at auction when you know there will be a mortgagee sale for the same house in a few weeks.

Administration is not a death spiral, especially if some of the debt can be restructured, which is exactly what is being negotiated/proposed.

mmmbop 15th Apr 2020 01:43


Originally Posted by Double_Clutch (Post 10750167)
For those of you playing along at home, it seems that all airlines are part owned by overseas companies.

QANTAS is very much partly overseas owned. A little research goes along way

Double Clutch, Virgin isn't 'partly owned by overseas companies, it's pretty much fully owned!

Qantas has a 49% cap on foreign ownership.

Virgin is over 91% foreign owned. My taxpayer dollars aren't going to be used saving a grossly mismanaged company that is over 91% foreign owned.

The problem for Virgin's survival is two fold. The foreign ownership, and the core belief in the free market rather than government ownership of assets. The deal needs to be done so that the Chinese,SIA,Etihad& Branson are removed from the company. So if that means it has to collapse before being reborn, I'd suggest that is the government's view.

I'd also suggest that Virgin isn't going to disappear (I hope not) and that a certain deal will be done. But we will just have to wait and see.

Colonel_Klink 15th Apr 2020 01:50


Originally Posted by mmmbop (Post 10750288)
Double Clutch, Virgin isn't 'partly owned by overseas companies, it's pretty much fully owned!

Qantas has a 49% cap on foreign ownership.

Virgin is over 91% foreign owned. My taxpayer dollars aren't going to be used saving a grossly mismanaged company that is over 91% foreign owned.

The problem for Virgin's survival is two fold. The foreign ownership, and the core belief in the free market rather than government ownership of assets. The deal needs to be done so that the Chinese,SIA,Etihad& Branson are removed from the company. So if that means it has to collapse before being reborn, I'd suggest that is the government's view.

I'd also suggest that Virgin isn't going to disappear (I hope not) and that a certain deal will be done. But we will just have to wait and see.

Itís interesting when people refer to the free market - because the market is exactly the opposite to that right now. In fact there is no market because of (the correct) government actions.

And for those that think the free market is the answer to everything - I assume you donít support the money on offer to regional airlines? Or the money being spent keeping childcare centres open. Or the money being given to universities to help them offset the massive loss in revenue from foreign students. I also assume youíll hand back any job keeper subsidy you (or your company) is receiving because sure as hell having the government chip in $3k a month per employee isnít a free market either.

wishiwasupthere 15th Apr 2020 01:51


Virgin is over 91% foreign owned. My taxpayer dollars aren't going to be used saving a grossly mismanaged company that is over 91% foreign owned.
Rex is 100% foreign owned yet I havenít heard the same amount of commentary regarding them receiving government assistance.

Toruk Macto 15th Apr 2020 01:56

Hopefully itís a poker game at the moment , bluffing the owners that they are about to lose everything if they donít pony up ? Their airlines not operating to Australia so no income from any extra investment? Scomo can easily say something changed and is now willing to help but thatís not the case today it seems .
Good luck .

chookcooker 15th Apr 2020 01:56


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10750292)
Itís interesting when people refer to the free market - because the market is exactly the opposite to that right now. In fact there is no market because of (the correct) government actions.


bingo.
I feel like Iím on crazy pills when anyone brings up ďfree marketĒ at the moment.

to quote the polarising Alan Jones Ēthe government has put the market in a coma, it needs to pay for the life supportĒ

mmmbop 15th Apr 2020 02:12


Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink (Post 10750292)
It’s interesting when people refer to the free market - because the market is exactly the opposite to that right now. In fact there is no market because of (the correct) government actions.

And for those that think the free market is the answer to everything - I assume you don’t support the money on offer to regional airlines? Or the money being spent keeping childcare centres open. Or the money being given to universities to help them offset the massive loss in revenue from foreign students. I also assume you’ll hand back any job keeper subsidy you (or your company) is receiving because sure as hell having the government chip in $3k a month per employee isn’t a free market either.

No Colonel. Not my belief, but what the Liberal Party is built around. Hence why people comment "its obvious the Labor Party would have bought out Virgin wheres the Liberal Party isn't going to"

The free market means minimum intervention by the government. Despite the narrowing of the difference, LNP and ALP still do differ here slightly. It doesn't mean no intervention. So hence why the government's current intervention strategies have been what they've been. e.g. the $715m package.

longjohn 15th Apr 2020 02:14


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10750264)
Iím nervous after that PM statement. Itís clear in that statement from the PM that they are not assisting. Bit hard to say that, then pull some 11th hour deal.

The Government isnít going to help. Looks like a Shorten government would have.

There is only really one option left. Branson to give them a loan. Thatís the last desperate measure before calling it a day. He didnít save Virgin America.

Iím feeling everyoneís pain. Iím quite angry actually. It didnít have to end like this. 20 years. What an absolute waste and will be the worst corporate disaster in my lifetime. Bryan and Borghetti need to be stripped of every single cent to their names.

We donít want some bottom feeding loco from the far north taking over. I hope David Neeleman sees an opportunity to bring his pride and joy down under, because my god it would be a weapon here. Thatís the sort of carrier we need here, what Virgin should have been, and what this market needs. Not a Lion or Air Asia.

Maybe your lifetime Wheels, but for a number of those here (including VAI employees) there was a far larger Airline collapse in 2001, when after 65 years, an aviation icon collapsed. Your 20 years is not quite a third of that.

Like today, the liberal government of the time fumbled and then refused to help. Qantas stirred the pot and the unions merely sought to pursue their open agenda. The Labor government of the time resorted to scoring points.

In the end 16000 people lost their jobs.

Within a short space of time Virginblue and Qantas had filled the gap. The Air was much fairer than it had been before and more aviation jobs were created than previous.

Since the capacity war of 2013, VAI and QF have both been propping up yields in the domestic market with constrained capacity. For QF times have never been better. For VAI, even under these conditions they have struggled to make a profit.

Time for a new entrant, unconstrained capacity and more jobs.

My advice, employees need to think about their entitlements before Scurrah and his band burn through it all.

normanton 15th Apr 2020 02:25


Originally Posted by chookcooker (Post 10750297)

to quote the polarising Alan Jones Ēthe government has put the market in a coma, it needs to pay for the life supportĒ

You just lost all credibility.

Chad Gates 15th Apr 2020 02:32

I do feel that SM canít really say anything else at the moment. He wants SQ (or at least one of the investors) to come forward with the cash. It looks to me like a bit of brinkmanship. If he indicates he will provide the assistance, the investors wallets will close immediately. 11 hour maybe.

chookcooker 15th Apr 2020 02:36


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10750310)
You just lost all credibility.

Cheers for that gem of an insight champ.

Vindiesel 15th Apr 2020 03:02

AFR Street Talk reporting that all major shareholders unwilling to put in more equity.

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/virg...0200415-p54jwg

Blueskymine 15th Apr 2020 03:05

I work for the other mob, but I wish you all the best and understand it must be absolute hell what youíre feeling right now. Especially the ones who went through it before. Or the ones like me who are stood down with a family wondering how the mortgage will look towards the end of the year.

What I can say is the government introduced these measures and strangled our airline industry. It completely restricts our ability to trade. Airlines need forward bookings and consumer confidence.

So therefore there should be a sovereign backing of debt for our airlines, ticket guarantees for consumer confidence and if the airlines canít meet their debt when this is over, then so be it. However right now they should be afforded life support as necessary to hibernate and be ready to turn on again in the future.

Yes, the government canít pick winners or losers, but itís the government whoís done this to its companies and citizens to save its health system and liability. So itís the government who needs to sort it out.


ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 15th Apr 2020 03:15


Originally Posted by Vindiesel (Post 10750325)
AFR Street Talk reporting that all major shareholders unwilling to put in more equity.

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/virg...0200415-p54jwg

Itís behind a paywall, any chance of a copy paste :)


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