Government Loan to Virgin Australia
Lunch time TV news had a Channel 9 reporter, Chris Uhlmann saying that after the daily press conference with the PM that the Government is unlikely to prop up Virgin Australia with the loan that they were seeking. Shudder to think what will happen to all the staff and their families, suppliers etc if they don't reverse that. Not to mention what Qantas will do with airfare costs if Virgin collapses.
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As disappointing as this may sound for some, this could just be the glimmer hope for many pilots recently made redundant.
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Something has to come from Scurrah now, if only to stem the rumours that are floating around.
He needs to confirm the company is solvent and can pay its debts as and when they fall due. If so, good and well. If not, then Administrators need to be called in to preserve the remaining cash. |
Originally Posted by chance
(Post 10736354)
Lunch time TV news had a Channel 9 reporter, Chris Uhlmann saying that after the daily press conference with the PM that the Government is unlikely to prop up Virgin Australia with the loan that they were seeking. Shudder to think what will happen to all the staff and their families, suppliers etc if they don't reverse that. Not to mention what Qantas will do with airfare costs if Virgin collapses.
Virgin Australia will collapse only if its owners allow (or want) it to, not because the Australian Govenment ( with taxpayers money) won't lend them cash. The owners are by majority all global players (including RB) and got in understanding the strategic risks they were taking with the existing business model that VA has operated under. Maybe they can redefine the business for the times... and the future. Here's a radical suggestion...let Sir Richard have his brand back, saving a few $$$$$ with that, and continue to run Tiger LCC (including a Tiger regional op) as OZ's competition to Qantas. Unfortunately Darwin's Theory of Evolution also applies to business too. Accreditation to - https://www.livescience.com/474-cont...ion-works.html Quote "The theory of evolution by natural selection, first formulated in Darwin's book "On the Origin of Species" in 1859, is the process by which organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioral traits. Changes that allow an organism to better adapt to its environment will help it survive and have more offspring." Unquote One more thought, everyone knows how this one panned out. Back in the day, Ansett Australia, who had more than a competitive share of the Australian aviation market, but not fit enough to survive its failings and circumstances was deemed not worthy of a Government handout because of its foreign ownership. It died an (un)natural death and the vacuum was quickly filled by a leaner and meaner operation. So.... Go Tiger!! :ok: |
VA
Just wanted to send best wishes to everyone at VA in this very difficult time.
I understand the premise of why the government can’t prop-up VAH. It’s bad enough with COVID-19, without having to navigate your future with an employer who’s becoming seemingly insolvent as a result. Please everyone, reach out to colleagues in and outside of VAH for support. It doesn’t matter what carrier you work for, we all understand the strain. It could quite easily be any of us If VA are going to wind-up, I hope it happens shortly before the cash is drained. Employees need to get their entitlements. |
Employees need to get their entitlements. https://www.ag.gov.au/industrial-rel...s/default.aspx |
If VA are going to wind-up, I hope it happens shortly before the cash is drained. Employees need to get their entitlements. If VA is going to go broke, call in the administrators now and give the employees their full entitlements rather than just sit around and wait until the cash is gone and there's nothing for anyone! If VA isn't going to go broke, then tell us what the situation truly is and give us belief that the company will survive. |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10736413)
Absolutely correct!
If VA is going to go broke, call in the administrators now and give the employees their full entitlements rather than just sit around and wait until the cash is gone and there's nothing for anyone! If VA isn't going to go broke, then tell us what the situation truly is and give us belief that the company will survive. If they have no hope of a line of credit from somewhere then they will burn the cash and they don't have tons of assets to borrow against as Qantas was able to do by taking a loan with the Qantas owned B787 fleet as security. A horrible situation but better to shut now and call in the Administrators and then pay out the 10,000 employees their entitlements if there is no chance of a buyer. |
Sow the wind , reap the whirlwind.
The government of the day deliberately allowed Ansett to fail so that Virgin Blue could lead the Australian travelling public to the sunlit uplands of low-cost deregulated airlines and the nirvana of $ 50.00 fares between Sydney and Melbourne. And nobody joined the dots. Conditions of employment trashed , zero security and an endless chase to the bottom. The a#se was always going to fall out of it eventually when exposed to a crisis. Now it has. |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10736413)
Absolutely correct!
If VA is going to go broke, call in the administrators now and give the employees their full entitlements rather than just sit around and wait until the cash is gone and there's nothing for anyone! If VA isn't going to go broke, then tell us what the situation truly is and give us belief that the company will survive. The only good thing to come out of that whole debacle was that we were made first in line. for whatever was left in the kitty. I absolutley, and from the bottom of my heart, wouldn't want VA employees to have to experience the trauma of that sh!tfight :yuk: Why has there not been a single word heard from VA's owners, they've made CEO Paul Scurrah the messenger and they are letting him cop all the arrows! Regardless of how much they pay him, from a due diligence perspective they need to be more open and transparent, this is a life or death situation for Virgin Australia. Understanding how big business operates in the background, I reckon our pollies know alot more than they are prepared to tell us. We can't continue to accept that they have no control over businesses failing (or surviving), they are intrinsicly involved at all levels! |
We can't continue to accept that they have no control over businesses failing (or surviving), they are intrinsicly involved at all levels! If you force an airline to be grounded, then you need to accept some of the responsibility for their demise. |
Having gone through the Ansett demise and a period of unemployment, the government did a good job with helping ensure the payment of owed wages and benefits. The tax liability was small and I ended up with far more cash in hand than expected.
With % rates near zero, hopefully for many Australians affected by current airlines troubles, there's enough personal funds to sustain until better times. Even as an employee of AN, at the time, I did not feel it right AN was propped up by taxpayers funds. Those funds would soon be far better spent on our War of Terror throughout the Middle East. |
Originally Posted by The Bullwinkle
(Post 10736453)
Particularly when it is the Governments actions, rightly or wrongly, that is causing businesses to fail.
If you force an airline to be grounded, then you need to accept some of the responsibility for their demise. |
Originally Posted by Dookie on Drums
(Post 10736459)
I hear what you're saying and sympathise but management at VAH should also accept some responsibility for the position they're in. They were forced to be grounded (like MANY airlines around the world) because of a pandemic and the risk it poses not only to the nation but the world. Not for ****s and giggles.
Virgin Australia Holdings annual losses2009: $160million2011: $67.8million 2013: $98.1million 2014: $353.8million 2015: $93.8million 2016: $224.7million 2017: $185.8million 2018: $653.3million 2019: $315.4million Source: Virgin Australia Holdings annual reports showing the statutory net loss after tax for the full year |
management at VAH should also accept some responsibility for the position they're in. |
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend
(Post 10736466)
Virgin Australia Holdings annual losses2009: $160million2011: $67.8million 2013: $98.1million 2014: $353.8million 2015: $93.8million 2016: $224.7million 2017: $185.8million 2018: $653.3million 2019: $315.4million Source: Virgin Australia Holdings annual reports showing the statutory net loss after tax for the full year |
Originally Posted by Anti Skid On
(Post 10736483)
Do their losses stem from specific areas of the business? Does the domestic SH do better than the long haul market? What about the Trans Tasman and PI flights? VA are my preferred carrier on Trans Tasman, Free baggage and meals and better seat pitch than Jetstar, and a similar price, cheaper than QF and NZ.
He’s been a VA hater forever and is loving this right now. |
Do their losses stem from specific areas of the business? |
Do their losses stem from specific areas of the business? The frequent flyer scheme made money so a genius manager sold it. A slighter smarter manager then bought it back in house. |
Brings back some memories doesn't it. History is so sad sometimes. The opening song "born to try"! Then it completely unravels at 08:45 into the clip. :(:mad: |
Good to see GFI (grinning f.. idiot) eventually appears.
But wait no young things in bikinis and where is idiot’s dress? |
Brings back some memories doesn't it. |
Originally Posted by markontop
(Post 10736514)
Good to see GFI (grinning f.. idiot) eventually appears.
But wait no young things in bikinis and where is idiot’s dress? |
Originally Posted by Anti Skid On
(Post 10736527)
He is a thoroughly unlikeable person
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The bearded burbler or Benny Hill with a beard?
Can’t decide. The best irony is the politically correct press lining up to sing his praises. Free tickets or blatant hypocrisy. (Can’t fault the Age here) Another chapter in “Branson the unauthorised biography” is due. |
Originally Posted by Anti Skid On
(Post 10736483)
Do their losses stem from specific areas of the business? Does the domestic SH do better than the long haul market? What about the Trans Tasman and PI flights? VA are my preferred carrier on Trans Tasman, Free baggage and meals and better seat pitch than Jetstar, and a similar price, cheaper than QF and NZ.
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Originally Posted by Anti Skid On
(Post 10736527)
He is a thoroughly unlikeable person
Not so with Sir Dick, he has done everything to make himself loved, in turn his staff have made him squazillions. He's made his $$$$$$$$$ but when did he last publicly discuss his not so flash ventures. Not deliberately trying to be negative, but who remembers Virgin Cola, Virgin America, Virgin Trains, Virgin Lotteries or Virgin Megastores to name a few? Curiously for a fella that knows business why has he been content to allow VA to continue making losses year in and year out. He's obviously outvoted by the Chinese, Singaporean and Middle Eastern partners, so I can only assume it must be a tax dodge?? For the others too?? We know he loves to party, but wouldn't it be great if he came out and spoke seriously about what they intend to do to fix all their woes? They're playing with Aussies livelihoods here, no fun in that! |
He made his money and he has gone. Please don’t get misty eyed. This is what he does - repeatedly. Arrives with all glitz, glamour and sequins then sells.
Weren’t VB staff promised holidays? Where is that other luminary B Godfrey? Still following in the white knight’s footsteps? |
Originally Posted by markontop
(Post 10736572)
He made his money and he has gone. Please don’t get misty eyed. This is what he does - repeatedly. Arrives with all glitz, glamour and sequins then sells.
Weren’t VB staff promised holidays? Where is that other luminary B Godfrey? Still following in the white knight’s footsteps? Correct observation. Study the Branson business model and you will find a trail of V branded failures "after" RB has cashed out and kept minimum exposure. Remember Virgin Atlantic went ti%ts up big time once before and was bailed by SQ. He runs like the Dali Lama with followers ogling his life style [no disrespect to His Highness]... |
RampDog. Who could forget Virgin Bride.
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He blamed that failure on the realisation that there weren't too many Virgin brides, haha.
The promotional photos would have scared the rest off..... https://i.insider.com/574d703352bcd0...jpeg&auto=webp What about Virgin Interactive, Virgin Pulse and Virgin Digital, flops too. There's a whole generation out there that couldn't care less about Branson or the Virgin brand, they're looking for the "next big thing" Time to re-brand, save millions on franchise fees and start afresh. Paul are you reading this?? |
To play the devils advocate it must be asked is this really that much of Bransons fault?
As far I can tell he contributed to the start up, largley cashed out, and was presumably not involved involved in the running of the company. I dont know enough about the other enterprises mentioned, but if his game is to start a business and largley cash out and hand over the running to someone else, is he really that responsible for the float or flop outcome? I think responsibility lies with historical management, not particular shareholders in the case of VA |
Too true, Branson is not the Messiah, he's just a naughty boy! He's a distraction from the real issue.
The majority stakeholders not coming up with a better plan to cut the losses or stumping up today to rescue the business. C'mon Hainan, Nashan, SQ, EY, there are thousands of jobs on the line...... wait a minute who was that at the back of the room who said "tough t!tties, Aussie"? |
He wants his brand on the tail.
Therefore he chooses to be associated with it. Can’t have it both ways. |
Originally Posted by Lapon
(Post 10736620)
To play the devils advocate it must be asked is this really that much of Bransons fault?
As far I can tell he contributed to the start up, largley cashed out, and was presumably not involved involved in the running of the company. I dont know enough about the other enterprises mentioned, but if his game is to start a business and largley cash out and hand over the running to someone else, is he really that responsible for the float or flop outcome? I think responsibility lies with historical management, not particular shareholders in the case of VA Singapore and Etihad need to bail the thing out. They were both as bad as each other with the tinkering and capex plans. Well, they were the ones pumping the cash in after all, so rightly so. Hogan was then moved on so that relationship and money stream dried up. Singapore got distracted with its own ventures. He could have saved Virgin America with some cash of his own dollars to keep it as it was albeit not under Alaska, but no dice. Its no different here. His got his cash and gone. Same with RyanAsia. They made a lot of cash selling out of Tiger and have gone. |
Originally Posted by RampDog
(Post 10736630)
The majority stakeholders not coming up with a better plan to cut the losses or stumping up today to rescue the business.
C'mon Hainan, Nashan, SQ, EK, EY, there are thousands of jobs on the line...... wait a minute who was that at the back of the room who said "tough t!tties, Aussie"? HNA (Hainan) has already been basically taken over by the Chinese Government under bankruptcy and will not likely be a shareholder for much longer. |
Originally Posted by DanV2
(Post 10736641)
The current shareholders are perhaps broke themselves due to the pandemic and are busy saving their own asses?
HNA (Hainan) has already been basically taken over by the Chinese Government under bankruptcy and will not likely be a shareholder for much longer. |
Interesting how 10 years of multi million dollar losses went unchecked by all the various bodies and now after the Government a. Leaves the borders open too long and b. Grounds the entire country, it suddenly becomes an issue.
Where is the mention of the man, board and chair people involved of the last decade? Not one mention. It’s incredible. How would the government go if the tax payer just switched off paying tax overnight? Probably not too well. Afterall they haven’t exactly managed our money that well have they. Pot call kettle black me thinks. Whats also been completely ignored is that Paul Scurrah has been working behind the scenes cleaning up the mess and indeed making some massive calls that have never been made in the history of Virgin (Vanz/Tiger Pilot redundancies). Hardly light hearted stuff. So clearly the company is moving in the right direction but hey if you work under a government that ignores all the warning signs for eight weeks straight then haphazardly ground the country then the request for help shouldn’t be a surprise then should it? Meanwhile the frontline staff and their families just sing from the song sheet and in the end will just get fricken speared while all the executives parachute into other roles. Close it up go on. Get Ryanair or Air Asia in see how you like those boats. |
In the Brave New World, I foresee Air New Zealand becoming the domestic carrier to fill the defunct VA's shoes (slots?)
They will buy out Tiger for $1.00, making them instant Aussies. Hey it's a rumour network after all.....:E |
Tiger would come with debt
VA comes with debt VARA comes with debt unfortunately it looks like no one will buy Virgin group with Billions of debt, not to mention the existing shareholder mix is toxic. |
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