PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   Government Loan to Virgin Australia (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/631164-government-loan-virgin-australia.html)

Synergies 14th Apr 2020 10:41


Originally Posted by virginexcess (Post 10749444)
The only person that ‘stripped’ anything out of this airline is John Borghetti. His major skillset was facillitating the transfer of large sums of money from gullible investors into his pockets.

What a "Game Changer" !!! Mostly losses during that "reign" !! :(

Paragraph377 14th Apr 2020 11:42


Originally Posted by Double_Clutch (Post 10749527)
Has the board reduced their pay further for the foreseeable future? Last I hear was a 15% reduction but given what is transpiring, wouldnít a larger sacrifice be forthcoming?

They are inept creatures. The entire Board needs to be given a short walk. Get rid of them. Theyíve fu#ked the place and their jobs should now be seen as redundant. Good riddance. Scurrah will be lucky to survive. He has had 12 months since IL Douche left VA to produce some magic. He didnít do enough quick enough. That said, is it worth keeping him around? Who knows. Regardless, at the end of the day the CEO is the accountable executive. He knew he was inheriting a lemon and unfortunately for him itís hit rock bottom due to mostly circumstances beyond his control. That said, he is the Captain and a good Captain always goes down with the ship. A lot of good people have and are being hurt by years of mismanagement. Thatís a very sad thing.



777Nine 14th Apr 2020 12:17

It's beyond sad that it has come to this. How can you f*** things up so badly to not make money in a market that has one other competitor. Like seriously. I feel for the employees of Virgin. I really do.

Flava Saver 14th Apr 2020 13:08

Iím so annoyed my friends in VA are caught up in this. I really am. Rips me up.
Iím so annoyed that the (foreign) investors of VA and the board have got it to this point. And arenít backing it up.
But why is PS pleading to the government to bail them out for $1.4 billion when they owe almost $5 billion in debt? Iím sorry... what an effing mess. It may not be his fault as such, but Iím sorry, my tax paying dollars donít deserve to go to a foreign owned outfit that canít get their stuff in order. I challenge anyone to explain to me why MY and everyone elseís taxes should bail an individual company out? And forget the two airlines needed to keep the air fair, whilst theyíve been here 20 years and are in this situation! But you havenít paid much in the way of Aussie tax Iím afraid, and were quick to take advantage of the Ansett collapse many years ago.

Shut the doors. And another door will open. History has shown this with VA after Ansett. Hopefully an outfit can emerge thatís strategic enough, and not stupid like VA has been, and be a proper 2nd airline in Australia? Alliance has been a quiet achiever for 20 years and maybe they are the ones to step up for Australia.

Sunfish 14th Apr 2020 13:28

It’s time to euthanize Qantas as well as Virgin. We need open skies.

The Bullwinkle 14th Apr 2020 13:31


Originally Posted by Synergies (Post 10749532)
What a "Game Changer" !!! Mostly losses during that "reign" !! :(

I guess the government wonít help because they saw Il Deuce as an aviation luminary.
Why else would they have awarded him an AOM for services to aviation?

George Glass 14th Apr 2020 14:22

And the prize for The Most Insensitive Drivel goes too.............

CamelSquadron 14th Apr 2020 15:17


Originally Posted by George Glass (Post 10749763)
And the prize for The Most Insensitive Drivel goes too.............

The one who fumbles around in the dark at great depth at the bottom of the ocean.......

Derfred 14th Apr 2020 18:04


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10749711)
It’s time to euthanize Qantas as well as Virgin. We need open skies.

I’d be interested in your hypothetical of how that would help. Is that a bit like getting rid of Ford and Holden? All domestic foreign owned? Good for Australia?

MEL-SYD: choose between Air Asia and Scoot. Both mobs paid $2/hr, but cheap flights. Sunny reckon’s it’s good for Australia.

TBM-Legend 14th Apr 2020 21:13

Sunny reckon’s it’s good for Australia.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]


Oh if Sunny, with more posts than a dingo fence says it, it must be true. An expert on all subjects.

He the Oracle has spoken!

Sunfish 14th Apr 2020 21:36

It may come as a surprise to some, but the Australian people do not just exist to be fleeced of exorbitant amounts of money to keep Qantas and its staff and shareholders in the style to which they have become accustomed.

If Virgin goes under than a rampant Qantas will screw the Australian captive customers for all they are worth......again! I can see that this is TBM's wet dream. A Qantas monopoly again, but this time not just International, domestic as well! Lets see; $1000 - Melbourne Sydney, $2000 - Melbourne Brisbane, $5000 to Perth!

Competitively priced air travel is essential to Australias economy, it is axiomatic that Qantas won't provide it without competition. If there is no competition then we need to open the skies.

ruprecht 14th Apr 2020 21:41


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10750129)
...more posts than a dingo fence...

Love it :p

Colonel_Klink 14th Apr 2020 21:42


Originally Posted by Flava Saver (Post 10749694)
It may not be his fault as such, but Iím sorry, my tax paying dollars donít deserve to go to a foreign owned outfit that canít get their stuff in order. I challenge anyone to explain to me why MY and everyone elseís taxes should bail an individual company out? And forget the two airlines needed to keep the air fair, whilst theyíve been here 20 years and are in this situation! But you havenít paid much in the way of Aussie tax Iím afraid, and were quick to take advantage of the Ansett collapse many years ago.

Two very quick points - your tax payer dollars have already gone to a foreign owned outfit - in REX, who got the majority of the $200m regional subsidy announced a few weeks ago. And who have now put their hand out for more....but there doesnít seem to be much commentary here about the nasty foreign owned REX airline taking government handouts. Iím not sure if Air North received any of that money either, but there is another foreign owned airline. And I think as of last year....QF was close to 40% foreign owned.

And whilst VA have not paid any Company tax - I can assure you they still contribute indirectly to the tax system. The NB pilots would pay at least $60m in income tax every year alone. Not to mention GST, fuel excise taxes, etc etc.

I hope youíre as passionate about some of these issues in 6 months time when QF (remember the 40% foreign owned airline) puts their hand out for money (from your tax payer dollars, which they havenít contributed to much recently either care of that handy $2b write down of assets a few years ago....)

Double_Clutch 14th Apr 2020 22:10

For those of you playing along at home, it seems that all airlines are part owned by overseas companies.

QANTAS is very much partly overseas owned. A little research goes along way

Going Boeing 14th Apr 2020 22:15

The major issue with Virgin’s operations (IMHO) is that they have too many fleets in small numbers. When you have only 4-5 aircraft in a fleet, your investment in spares, maintenance, training costs, etc is far greater than when you have a fleet of 15-20 aircraft. The only way that I can see Virgin trading out of this is to reduce their operations to a single large fleet of B737’s with all the B777’s, A330’s, A320’s, ATR’s etc disposed of - with significant losses due to the depressed market. This will cause significant pain for many staff but, it s necessary to save the airline. All the best to Virgin staff.

crosscutter 14th Apr 2020 22:21


Originally Posted by Double_Clutch (Post 10750167)
For those of you playing along at home, it seems that all airlines are part owned by overseas companies.

QANTAS is very part part overseas owned. A little research goes along way

Probably those owners will reach into their own pockets in a NORMAL capital raising without creating a game of brinkmanship between various GOVERNMENTS and bondholders.

VAH has tremendous local support. It has good people. All the best.

Cravenmorehead 14th Apr 2020 23:31

Absolutely agree, fleet consolidation, probably 737; trunk routes only.
If financing can be found there is hope.
Hang in there peeps, we're all in this together.
Craven

normanton 14th Apr 2020 23:55

There should be some news today, or at opening tomorrow at the latest.

The announcement states "Virgin Australia wishes the trading halt to remain in place until the earlier of the release of an announcement by the Company or two trading days."

pilotbm 15th Apr 2020 00:05


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10750237)
There should be some news today, or at opening tomorrow at the latest.

The announcement states "Virgin Australia wishes the trading halt to remain in place until the earlier of the release of an announcement by the Company or two trading days."

This is a standard release - a trading halt cannot be longer than 2 trading days.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 15th Apr 2020 00:06

From The Australian “Scott Morrison Refuses to Budge on Bailout for Virgin”

The federal government has no *intention of being Virgin’s “white knight”, dismissing growing calls for it to intervene to save the airline or even take a temporary *equity stake to prevent its collapse.

Senior government sources fear ongoing speculation about the commonwealth bailing out the foreign-owned Virgin is counter-productive, crowding out any *potential market-led solution.

While the Morrison government is concerned about the *future of Virgin, and job losses in aviation, sources insist the JobKeeper package is designed to help businesses ravaged by COVID-19 and a Virgin-specific bailout, including taking an equity stake, won’t happen.

Scott Morrison told Sky News on Tuesday: “Our plan has always been about preserving businesses as the centre of the economy, not the government at the centre of our economy. Businesses are at the centre of our economy and we want to *ensure they get through this intact … so they can lead the recovery … on the other side.”

Sources told The Australian that, despite speculation and support from Labor, this would not include any special rescue package for Virgin. The government *believes a bailout for Virgin would open the floodgates for other struggling businesses.

Deputy Prime Minister *Michael McCormack has been trying to secure an agreement from the airlines to operate a *minimum number of flights *between major centres to maintain freight connections and carry Australians to their home town or city after *enforced quarantine.
READ MORE:Virgin in trading halt amid rescue hopes|It takes two to keep the air fair|Canberra in Virgin debt dogfight|Virgin races to restructure debtBut a planned announcement on Tuesday was progressively pushed back as Virgin Australia sought assurances it would not be left out of pocket as a result of the flights. It is understood the airline has been unhappy with relief measures announced by the government to date.

Despite Mr McCormack’s promise that $159m of a $715m fee relief package would be paid to Qantas and Virgin, neither airline has yet to receive any money.

With flying reduced to almost nothing, Virgin estimated the total cost benefit of the package from February 1 to September 30 would amount to less than $70m.

For the second time this month, Virgin shares were placed in a trading halt on Tuesday pending an announcement about financial assistance and debt restructuring by Thursday.

Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah is working on a restructuring plan with investment bank Houlihan Lokey and, with the backing of Labor, he *believes the airline is crucial to Australia’s economic recovery and the government should take an *equity stake to secure its future.

But the Prime Minister and Josh Frydenberg insisted any further support for the aviation sector would be spread across the industry. “We haven’t been picking any winners or picking any favourites here,” Mr Morrison told the Nine Network. “What we’ve been doing is ensuring we’re giving sector-wide support. So we’ll continue to deal with the sector on a sector-wide basis.”

The Treasurer also ruled out a Virgin-specific rescue package and suggested talk of the airline’s collapse was “speculating about the future”.

“Nobody knows where those issues will end up,” Mr Frydenberg said. “Australia’s been well served by having two major airlines operating in the domestic market. But Virgin and Qantas are both publicly listed companies, both with substantial shareholders.”


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:19.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.