It’s probably more the point, if they did not blow and waste so much cash in the last decade, which in return just blew out any cost base advantage they once had over the rival, they could have tomorrow, gone to a bank and asked for $2 billon and secure it against aircraft.

Not only are they $5b in debt, they have nothing left to secure cash against. They have exhausted every financial option available. Everything is maxed out basically.

Even pre Corona, how the heck they were going to finance the upcoming MAX order was anyone’s guess.

Let alone repay, what, $7b of debt? Post the virus.

How on earth do you get out of $7b of debt, from such a small revenue and poor profit history? Anyone?

On a light note, regarding Victoria, maybe Dan Andrews was trying to find that 1.1b he threw away on that worthless A4 piece of paper.

You feel there is so much more to unfold. Chinese government ownership you feel is so unlikely because it’ll be too hot for the government. So then what? Busy weekend for the spinners, power brokers and back room dealers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-bail-out.html

Now the CHINESE are considering buying Virgin Australia after the Morrison government refused to bail out embattled airline

• Chinese airlines are considering purchasing the struggling Virgin Australia
• Chinese-owned carriers are in talks about buying the Queensland-based airline
• The Morrison government refused to give the company a $1.4billion bailout
• A joint approach from two Chinese carriers could save the airline from collapse

By ISABELLE STACKPOOL FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA

PUBLISHED: 16:50 BST, 17 April 2020 | UPDATED: 17:21 BST, 17 April 2020

Chinese airlines are considering buying embattled Virgin Australia after the Morrison government refused to bail out the struggling airline.

China Southern Airlines, China East Airlines and Air China are all in discussions about purchasing the carrier in a last-minute takeover in a bid to stop its 'catastrophic' collapse.

Sources told the Courier Mail that the Chinese government-owned airlines were yet to make a formal offer.

However any offer could provide a much-needed lifeline to Virgin Australia and the market-led cash solution the Morrison government urged them to find.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04...7136219507.jpg
Chinese-owned airlines are considering purchasing Virgin Australia (pictured) to stop the company from collapsing amid the coronavirus crisis Virgin Australia wanted the Federal Government to hand over $1.4billion to save them from collapse but the money has not been forthcoming.

A joint approach from two Chinese carriers could see the foreign-owned Virgin Australia Group prevented from falling into voluntary administration.

The move would likely require approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board before a solution could be reached.

It is believed Australians would lose millions of Velocity Points and flight credits if the company went into administration.

On Friday night it was revealed that the Queensland government will offer the troubled airline $200million towards a bailout in the hope that other states will follow suit.

The company's corporate headquarters are located in Brisbane but the head office and Velocity Frequent Flyer businesses may potentially move to Melbourne.

The managing director of the Virgin Australia Group, Paul Scurrah, on Wednesday refused to speculate about voluntary administration.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04...7136244108.jpg
A joint approach from two Chinese carriers (pictured) could save the struggling company On Thursday Virgin Australia asked the ASX to suspend its shares for seven days and revealed it was in confidential talks to save the company from collapse.

'These discussions have continued over the last two days including discussions which remain confidential and are incomplete,' Virgin said in a statement to the ASX.

'The company is not presently in a position to make an announcement to the market with respect to these matters.'

Virgin Australia has already suspended all but one domestic route, stood down 8,000 workers and had its credit rating downgraded.

The Federal Opposition called on the government to provide financial support for Virgin Australia yesterday.

Labor Senator for Queensland, Murray Watt, said it was 'an issue of national interest' to keep Virgin Australia afloat.

Senator Watt said the government should take an equity stake in Virgin Australia and that the airline was a 'proud Queensland company' essential to the state's tourism.

'Maintaining two airlines is critical for a functioning tourism industry and jobs,' he said.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison previously said any public funding for aviation would be spread across the entire sector.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/04...7136248279.jpg
The Morrison Government have refused Virgin Australia's plea for a $1.4billion bail out

$200M is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount VA owes its creditors.

So $200M might keep them going for another couple of months, maybe, then it goes into administration anyway. What happens to the $200M of taxpayers money?

Is that incompetent twit running QLD going to be held accountable for the money she threw away knowing it was almost certainly going to be lost? She’d have been better off running down to the casino and putting $200M on black. At least there would have almost been a 50% chance of getting money back.

I’m glad I’m not in the tourist industry. Qantas and what was left of Virgin will crush it in future. Same goes for anyone trying to operate an international business outside Sydney. Qantas will suck the lifeblood out of the country.

”Market Forces” is Federal treasury code for “there is only room for one airline in Australia and its name starts with Q”.

LOL, a bit like Titanic passengers wishing that only another luxury ship would come to their rescue.

Exactly, shows Morrison is way smarter than Miss Piggy.

It's a very conditional offer and won't get over the line. Nice try :ugh:

Virgin was circling the drain well before Covid19, has the board been sitting on their hands for the last decade, if by some miracle they survive, maybe they should go back to the low cost plan, no airbridge, walk to plane with a Virgin brolly in the rain, no free meals or drinks, pay for it if you want it, no free baggage , pay for it by weight. ETC.

I certainly mean no disrespect to VA colleagues at this troubled time, but any taxpayer money sent to VA is a mistake.

In it’s current form, it appears the business has been dealt a fatal blow with COVID-19. I would support government assisting a rebuilt 2nd airline to replace them once administration process finishes.

Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack has welcomed Queensland's $200 million commitment to ailing airline Virgin Australia and insists the Morrison government is also exploring all avenues to keep two airlines in the air.
Queensland's Palaszczuk government confirmed it is providing $200 million to cash-strapped Virgin, with the airline having so far been unsuccessful in its request for a $1.4 billion loan from the federal government.
"Sustaining Australia's aviation industry is critical to protecting livelihoods and saving lives and the Federal Government is exploring all possible avenues to keep two airlines in the air, throughout this pandemic and on the other side of it," Mr McCormack told AAP on Saturday.
"I welcome states and territories exploring ways to assist their local aviation businesses and welcome the Queensland government's commitment to Virgin."
Mr McCormack, who is the federal transport minister, said the Morrison government has made a "significant investment" of an initial $165 million to keep Qantas and Virgin operating essential domestic network services, including the most crucial metropolitan and regional routes in Australia.
He said there is a heavy focus on Queensland routes.
That brings the federal government's total support to the aviation industry to $1.28 billion.

RELATED ARTICLES

• Coronavirus live updates: Global deaths hit 150,000; China under scrutiny after Wuhan death toll doubles; 'Immune' crew to man Ruby Princess back to US
• More calls for China COVID-19 transparency
• Current coronavirus death toll 'just the tip of the iceberg'

Confirming Queensland's contribution, State Development Minister Cameron Dick says it is imperative Australia has two airlines to support tourism, jobs and regional investment.
"If we're going to get through this pandemic with two national airlines ... then all governments need to come together to ensure that is the case," he told reporters in Brisbane.
"Queensland can't do this on its own. This is a national airline weathering a national crisis and it needs a national response which is why we're asking the Australian government to take the lead on this."
Mr Dick said Queensland's support was conditional on debt restructuring, shareholders and bondholders doing their bit.
The airline's headquarters would also need to remain in Brisbane and regional flights would need to continue.
Federal Labor frontbencher Jason Clare also called on the Morrison government to help Virgin.
"We need two airlines. If we don't have two, we'll have fewer flights and flights will cost more. It won't mean just 15,000 Aussies losing their jobs, but the task of crawling out of the crater created by the coronavirus will become harder," he told ABC television.
Mr McCormack said the federal government will continue to monitor Virgin's situation.
"But the best solution for the airline would be a market solution," he said.
© AAP 2020

Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack has welcomed Queensland's $200 million commitment to ailing airline Virgin Australia and insists the Morrison government is also exploring all avenues to keep two airlines in the air.
Queensland's Palaszczuk government confirmed it is providing $200 million to cash-strapped Virgin, with the airline having so far been unsuccessful in its request for a $1.4 billion loan from the federal government.
"Sustaining Australia's aviation industry is critical to protecting livelihoods and saving lives and the Federal Government is exploring all possible avenues to keep two airlines in the air, throughout this pandemic and on the other side of it," Mr McCormack told AAP on Saturday.
"I welcome states and territories exploring ways to assist their local aviation businesses and welcome the Queensland government's commitment to Virgin."
Mr McCormack, who is the federal transport minister, said the Morrison government has made a "significant investment" of an initial $165 million to keep Qantas and Virgin operating essential domestic network services, including the most crucial metropolitan and regional routes in Australia.
He said there is a heavy focus on Queensland routes.
That brings the federal government's total support to the aviation industry to $1.28 billion.

RELATED ARTICLES

• Coronavirus live updates: Global deaths hit 150,000; China under scrutiny after Wuhan death toll doubles; 'Immune' crew to man Ruby Princess back to US
• More calls for China COVID-19 transparency
• Current coronavirus death toll 'just the tip of the iceberg'

Confirming Queensland's contribution, State Development Minister Cameron Dick says it is imperative Australia has two airlines to support tourism, jobs and regional investment.
"If we're going to get through this pandemic with two national airlines ... then all governments need to come together to ensure that is the case," he told reporters in Brisbane.
"Queensland can't do this on its own. This is a national airline weathering a national crisis and it needs a national response which is why we're asking the Australian government to take the lead on this."
Mr Dick said Queensland's support was conditional on debt restructuring, shareholders and bondholders doing their bit.
The airline's headquarters would also need to remain in Brisbane and regional flights would need to continue.
Federal Labor frontbencher Jason Clare also called on the Morrison government to help Virgin.
"We need two airlines. If we don't have two, we'll have fewer flights and flights will cost more. It won't mean just 15,000 Aussies losing their jobs, but the task of crawling out of the crater created by the coronavirus will become harder," he told ABC television.
Mr McCormack said the federal government will continue to monitor Virgin's situation.
"But the best solution for the airline would be a market solution," he said.
© AAP 2020

A take over by Chinese airlines would make sense for them, China Southern in particular which wants to operate a hub out of Guangzhou. They were the cheapest option from Sydney to London awhile ago. It would also give the Skyteam alliance a presence in Australia if CS or CE got in. China Eastern already partner with QF on Chinese domestic routes so that might be in doubt if they bought a competing airline in Australia. Whilst all three are government owned, Air China is the most government of the lot but would continue the Star alliance presence. Surprisingly the article talks about saving Virgin from going into administration, possibly they want to preserve as much of the operation as they can but I can still see a significant restructure and debtors taking a loss.

Allowing Chinese ownership might be the price for preventing an airline collapse and a significant loss of jobs and creditors money. The Chinese step in as saviours preserving Australian jobs and paying the creditors most of what they owe and it return get something they wouldn't be able to in normal times.

A Chinese owned domestic airline in Australia would come in handy for all the tourists they would bring in. Just like Thailand we could have the zero dollar Chinese tourist who arrives on a Chinese airline, stays in a Chinese owned hotel, gets transported around by a Chinese owned tour company, eats in Chinese restaurants and shops in Chinese owned downtown duty frees. Actually we probably have most of that already, still it creates a few jobs in the tourism sector and they pay some non refundable taxes.

I’ll respond to each of your points with one word......
:mad:

Did the past 2 months not teach you anything???

"Queensland's Palaszczuk government confirmed it is providing $200 million to cash-strapped Virgin, with the airline having so far been unsuccessful in its request for a $1.4 billion loan from the federal government."

Call me a cynic but doesn't Ms. Palaszczuk have an election to fight in October.
Nothing like a coupla hundred mill to help secure a few more votes from the coupla thousand Virgin constituents.
Even better if you can promise something you probably won't have to spend. ;) :rolleyes:

Especially when..."The airline's headquarters would also need to remain in Brisbane"

So, 3 Chinese airlines back Virgin. With bottomless pockets. Loss lead with pricing and kill off every other airline in Australia.

These guys are patient stalkers and plan way ahead of any Australian.

Lets see how AJ tries to squash the Chinese backing. A government loan to VA might look the more attractive option at the moment.

I’m not sure he’ll have to say a word. Chinese students are getting bashed in the streets, Federal Labor are sharpening their attack, and Pauline Hanson... one can only imagine. Making Australia great again.

Exactly! If they do come in with their deep pockets, the Leprechaun will probably wish he'd loaned VA the $1.4 Billion himself! :}

Is it more likely the Chinese buyout story has been made up to play on Australia's current (and rampant) sinophobia to increase support for government funding?

This Chinese buyout story originated in the Courier Mail and the source of the information is not given.

Other news sources merely parroted the Courier Mail.

It hasn't been repeated on many other online news sites, such as the ABC or even the SMH or The Age.

I think you could be right VH-FTS
nnnnnn
nnnnnn

A good rule of thumb is to never believe anything you read in Rupert's rag.

Makes for good dunny paper if you run out.

It’s a stupid threat none the less.

Even if it does turn out to be true, the government still gets the final say on a foreign takeover.

Pauline Hanson will love this.

So it's imperative Australia has 2 airlines according to Mr. Dick, but only if Virgin stays in Qld. Does this mean if they pack up and relocate to Melbourne suddenly we no longer need 2 airlines and the Qld government would no longer be interested in trying to save them?

Even EK are asking for "financial accommodation" from AMEDEO on existing leases for A380-800's and B777-300's.

"Mr Dick said the Queensland funding was conditional on Federal Government backing, as well as debt restructuring, shareholders and bond holders doing their bit, the airline keeping its headquarters in Brisbane, and ongoing regional flights".

That's one way of promising money you know won't ever be delivered.

Spot on. It is a straight up and down political play that Palaszczuk and Dick know that they'll never have to deliver on. The conditions that they have stipulated for the offer mean that no other state is going to chip in and on its own, the $200 million is insufficient to make any difference to Virgin's future.

It is a typically cynical Palaszczuk play that allows her to claim 'Gee, we tried when others did nothing' bragging rights without there ever being a real prospect that they will have to dirty their hands with what is going to be a very messy administration.

Oh, and the Deputy Premier gets to retain her skiing holiday destination for being seen to be trying to help out her good friends, the Scurrahs.

I didn't know that we had a money printing press in Qld.

Air China makes the most sense.
30% cross shareholding with CX Group.
Star Alliance.
Large operator of 738's
Offer Etihad, Branson, HNA and Nanshan 5-6 cents a share. SQ would probably stay. HNA & Nanshan may be part of a larger restructure of the airline industry in China.
Return all leased aircraft and replace as necessary with surplus a/c from own fleets.
Rebuild domestic services from a base fleet of 40-50X738's.
VARA to be sold to Alliance or J/V with Alliance.
Re-brand as Star Alliance Australia.
Maintain TransPac services -scrap Delta alliance for United.
Debt moved up the tree for renegotiation based on bigger asset pool and negotiating power.
Not sure about the 10% public float and Australian listing but sure something can be worked out to ensure maintenance of Australian traffic rights for any international services such as Transpac.

That may be overly simplistic but might well be the outcome if VAH goes into administration. The only difference with administration is that there would be a huge wastage of precious funds going to the administrator.

The Qld printing press is, of course, rented...

How has VA not been trading while insolvent prior to Covid, they are $5B in debt,with minimal assets and $215M annual losses for a decade.
How to own a small airline....... start off with a large one.

With lease payments printed off monthly.

Heard Lucinda Gemmell has emptied her desk out and left the Village! Not many lifeboats left now while the band keeps playing. Who’s going to be in charge of hiring all the team specialists and oxygen thief’s now?

Wow, she obviously isn’t interested in a Melbourne office view.

We all need to remember that this is the pilots RUMOUR network, not the pilots PROVEN FACTS network. Anyone who needs verifiable, concrete information would be better off getting their news from official press releases, and sources such as the ASX.

In a situation such as this, there are any number of things which could happen and it's entirely reasonable to speculate on a range of possible outcomes. There are news reports which have differing points of view depending on who owns the agency involved and some of their sources may be more or less accurate than their competition. Those who know for sure aren't talking, and those who are talking don't know for sure.

Let's not take anything personally, I'm sure the vast majority here want Virgin to come through this and wish them all the best in this exceptionally trying time. Hopefully in the not to distant future the critical decisions will be made and the staff won't be in limbo over their future.

At the moment we're like the meteorological office, scientists when talking about past events and reading tea leaves when predicting the future.

Has the CEO left yet? Long overdue. Chief Experience Officer that is. :}

There is also a ‘Chief Risk Officer’. Good Lord.

Oh no! But but who will carry the baton now in the race for diversity in Lucinda’s quest to have freaks, fools and fuc#wits piloting aircraft, all for the sake of ‘diversity’? Is this the end of the era of ‘specialists’?? I thought the pilots would be eventually renamed ‘aeronautical specialists’, the flight attendants ‘In-flight service specialists’, and LAME’s renamed ‘air vehicle specialists’? Morons

Virgin has proven that low cost does not work in Australia.
It was not started by airline executives with a solid business plan but in fact, by 2 secondhand plane salesmen who managed to sell the idea to get start up money on a bar napkin.
When it was floated the original players pulled out their little goldmines and couldn’t give a toss from then on.
The only reason that Virgin survived was that the last Liberal government allowed Ansett to fall .
There were no new ideas or brilliant management types, just low class service for not so low a cost , and fares went up after Ansett failed.
The attempted transformation from a pig’s ear into a silk purse just cost a lot of money and still produced share prices that have not seen more than a quarter of the issue price and at times 1/20 of issue.
What was the last share price ( when you could buy) ?
Penny stock prices they call it in the US, the stuff for mug punters to buy.
The reason for this was because it was grossly over valued at the float and people bought the hype.
Virgin is a dead business, there is no point in dragging the saga on and another operator will take over without the self inflicted debt that a Virgin has to carry.
If it is sold to Chinese controlling interest, there is no guarantee that fares will remain low and even less that the service will be there.
The air will not be fair and the Chinese will want more than the airline , they will expect the gov to take on the debt and will want to pay little for the airline to boot.
Face it , the price of everything is going up as will airfares whether the government urinates 1.4B up against the wall , Virgin fails or the Chinese get control.
Sure ( sadly) people will lose their jobs but, many more lost their jobs when Ansett fell ( I think it may have been 17500) and the government couldn’t care less, why care now?
In fact the government allowed Air NZ to attempt to buy Ansett when it shouldn’t have and they shouldn’t allow the Chinese to take over Virgin now nor bail it out.