respectfully, B- is well into the junk status category let alone the current rating. There are very few non junk rated airlines if it’s any consolation. Further, trusting the rating agencies is a mugs game in itself.

Guess again. You have never worked for VA yet you seem to be a bit of a self-proclaimed expert on the company including staff you have never met. I dont rate self-proclaimed experts. It would be like me spouting on about AirNZ. Ive never worked for the joint, so why would I bother!? An opinion is fine but scrolling through tens of posts of you sprouting rubbish is pretty tiresome.

When I retire I certainly wont be touching anything to do with aviation apart from a back seat going on holidays - but each to their own. I guess some people know nothing else but to spend their days on pprune.

Hopefully that will be very soon then! Please!!

We Are All In This Together
 

It would be sad to see either Virgin or Qantas fail. But there may be a way out of this. Whilst Qantas and Virgin are not flying the suppliers of aviation fuel are also suffering. I am showing my age here but there was a period in the late 1950;s and 1960's where we had 'The two airline policy for domestic operations. QF withdrew from domestic services including PNG and Ansett and TAA took over domestic services with identical fleet types and government support. There was a period in the 1960's when Shell,who provided the bulk of aviatiion fuel, helped Reg Ansett with funds to keep the airline afloat. TAA and Ansett even had a spare parts pool (engines, etc.) Even though Ansett and TAA were in competition we respected each other and often socialised together outside work hours. If there was an aircraft breakdown passengers were transferred with ease to the other carrier to ensure they reached their destination. Why not get an Australian based aviation fuel provider interested in giving Virgin the same support that Reg Ansett was given many years ago as this may save the jobs of many dedicated staff at Virgin and the government legislate that the two airlines work together to ensure the viability of both airlines.

We Are All In This Together
 

It would be sad to see either Virgin or Qantas fail. But there may be a way out of this. Whilst Qantas and Virgin are not flying the suppliers of aviation fuel are also suffering. I am showing my age here but there was a period in the late 1950;s and 1960's where we had 'The two airline policy for domestic operations. QF withdrew from domestic services including PNG and Ansett and TAA took over domestic services with identical fleet types and government support. There was a period in the 1960's when Shell,who provided the bulk of aviatiion fuel, helped Reg Ansett with funds to keep the airline afloat. TAA and Ansett even had a spare parts pool (engines, etc.) Even though Ansett and TAA were in competition we respected each other and often socialised together outside work hours. If there was an aircraft breakdown passengers were transferred with ease to the other carrier to ensure they reached their destination. Why not get an Australian based aviation fuel provider interested in giving Virgin the same support that Reg Ansett was given many years ago as this may save the jobs of many dedicated staff at Virgin and the government legislate that the two airlines work together to ensure the viability of both airlines.

BOAC;

1. The spare parts pool was a good idea that didn’t last because TAA and Ansett had different policies on optional modifications. TAA did SFA while Ansett did the lot because of tax considerations. I think the final straw was when TAA took Ansetts fully modded B727 flap set at a D check and returned an un modified set to the pool.

2. TAA and Ansett management socialized every day during lunchtime at Macs. That was where policy, services and fares was decided. For example, it was virtually impossible for staff to move from one airline to the other because the two HR departments had a “no poaching”, “no reemployment” agreement. I occasionally ended up at Macs at lunchtime and I saw it. Various departments had other local watering holes as well.It was no accident that Peter Abeles first action was to ban drinking during working hours.

3. Lorna was a lovely Lady and very kind to me.

Latest is that Scurrah is talking to a group comprising China Southern, China Eastern and Air China to do the rescue deal. So three Chinese companies as distinct from now with an Arab, a Singaporean, two Chinese and a Pom. Seems likes its Hobsons Choice as D Day approaches.

If this is true, yet another example of Chinese take-over by stealth. Time to stop this right now :mad:

Scurrah must be dreaming and clutching at straws, but hopefully, the FIRB will knock this one on the head.

What are you on about? This is good news. It’s fundamentally no different to shareholder composition now. It’s just an anti China rant.

Really ????

What planet are you on - It's fundamentally different with proposed new Chinese (government) investment.:ugh:

For a start, China Eastern is over 60% government owned.

The parent company of China Southern Airlines Company Limited is China Southern Air Holding Company, a state-owned enterprise (Wikipedia)

There is no way the Australian government should allow a majority Chinese government owned company to invest here in the future.

But this may have all been overtaken by the news that the QLD government is willing to conditionally support VA with $ 200 million. :ok:

The federal government is going to be hundreds of billions in debt from these relief measures they are implementing. Plus the money to be spent to restart the economy later. They don’t have the ability or desire to bailout virgin, nor do any of its current owners, not does it seems many private investors.

For the sake of 10,000 jobs is any going to knock this deal on the head because of an ideological hate of China whipped up by the media? Any offer of help will be appreciated.

Where were the complaints when SIA was a possible new owner? Singapore OK? China Not Ok? Got it. Notwithstanding my own personal desire and bias to have a Australian owner, I think your logic is flawed. Your concerns are valid but you can’t cherry pick overseas governments without sounding like a .....

Saving Virgin was yelled loud and clear, ‘it’s in the national interest’ to ‘keep the air fair.’ It appears blocking China is a greater national interest to some.

The government have had zero problem in the past allowing China to invest heavily here. They won’t change their tune now, in fact they will be breathing a massive sigh of relief at the prospect.

As perception is everything, it may be a point of difference with the public initially. But when the first $99 fares are published it will be quickly forgotten.

There is a world of difference between 'Singapore Inc' and the Chinese government - what don't you understand about that ????

So, in this case, it is important to differentiate between the two. One is greatly more insidious with fairly nasty political agendas than the other - I'll leave you to work out which one that is.

Queensland govt looking to bail them out, contingent on other states also helping.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/virgin-offered-$200m-coronavirus-lifeline-from-qld-government/12160946

I do think they have the desire but unfortunately, as you stated, they won't have the ability due to the debt accrued as a result of the rescue policies already afforded to the many small businesses, the unemployed and exit strategy for the economy post Covid-19. I hope the Chinese do put their hands in their pockets.

We are all in for a rough ride ahead and we are ALL in it together.

Isn’t it that whoever buys into Virgin aren’t buying an Australian company, but buying a predominately overseas owned company that is based and operates in Australia?

Air China is also another state owned enterprise (China National Aviation Holding) - so the three airlines mentioned in the posts above are all facades for the Chinese government. :ugh:

Would the government block a chinese takeover if it meant the airline would fold? Some big balls from SCOMO.

Saw the money from the QLD government coming from a mile away. Morons fell for the "we'll move to Melbourne" threat.

Good move by Queensland Government to forestall a move to Victoria.

The govt said (in fin review today I think) that they would NOT prevent an overseas govt takeover

Ahh well if Sunfish says it's a good deal, it must really be a bad deal. :}

Just curious, would you have a link to the source of this rumour by any chance ?

Does anyone know if Virgin own or lease aircraft or a mix of both. ?

Turn the news on it’s been all over it or buy a newspaper!

I don’t think this is a good thing having the Chinese buy VA this will be bad long term.

My gut feeling is the other states won’t match it. It’s a Brisbane based airline and the other states will still have air services or some form. Plus they’re broke.

the Chinese will be the best bet.

Absolutely, it's not like they are buying an Australian owned and run business, it's a 90% foreign owned airline that operates in Australia, and does a damn fine job too I if I might say, and we will pay through the nose for domestic flights if they fail.

About 50/50

But they don’t really own them. As they have Borrowed cash against every one of them (minus the Fokker), with the now problem of unable to pay the debt tied to them, they are really owned by the banks.

A mix of both.I think they own 4 777’s and about 30 737’s.

Define "owned".

One poster says just "owned", another says 50% owned but used as collateral for loans...so the financial institution either "owns" or has a substantial holding.

It sounds as if VA own ZERO of the mainline fleet - if all are used as security for loans.

Thanks WD.

I agree, they should be, but in this case, it's not an Australian company apart from the 10% Aussie shareholding.

If the chinese want in, they should be allowed in under the current circumstances i.e. $5b debt.

If they want it cheaply once the company goes into administration, the government should be telling them to get ^%$#@!.

Capitalist when in Profit, Socialist when not.

Am I missing something here? :ugh: They definitely can not have it both ways! :mad:

No bail out...

Thats how it works. In the good times, minimise your tax as best you can. In the bad times, ask the taxpayer to bail you out.

But hey, it's legal!

A bit like a motorist offering a cyclist five bucks for the $3k bike they just knocked him off.

There won't be a major bailout apart from miss Piggy who just wants her employment stats to look good for the impending election.

Is Joyce still around ?

I think the board got around to telling him to keep his mouth shut.

It’s been great.