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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
(Post 10756005)
Frydenberg said this morning that govt won’t be bailing out, the airline has to go through all ‘commercial processes’ (ie, administration). Also said any attempted takeover by a Chinese govt owned airline will be blocked.
not sure what planet the nsw treasurer is on. Last thing VA needs is different state govts pulling on each arm trying to force them to relocate. Just another big decision for an already overwhelmed management |
The states should either stump up the money condition free, or shut up. They seem to just be playing politics. They want to be seen by their constituents to be “doing something”, but never actually doing anything.
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Get back to the reality - It's an Australian ASX listed public company where shareholders won't front up with funds to keep it going. That doesn't give it any rights to preferential government funding. What don't you understand about this ??
On any view, in the current climate, Chinese government funding is just not an acceptable outcome. |
Originally Posted by jethro_027
(Post 10756079)
It’s interesting, VA isn’t Australian enough, not worthy of a government loan and should look for a market solution. But they can’t have a Chinese money because they are too Australian. And the states can’t given them a loan either. It all makes perfect sense.
This isn't just targeted at Virgin and aviation, it includes any business. |
Originally Posted by normanton
(Post 10756072)
A very smart and wise planet. A buyout from any government owned Chinese company in the current Australian market should be blocked.
no I would say outer space somewhere...Frydenberg said Chinese blocked, nsw treasurer says virgin has not been mismanaged and will possibly contribute if they relocate to badgerys creek....don’t you think VA management have enough to deal with at the moment without throwing a ‘pack up and move’ in there as well? |
Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
(Post 10756090)
nsw treasurer says virgin has not been mismanaged and will possibly contribute if they relocate to badgerys creek....don’t you think VA management have enough to deal with at the moment without throwing a ‘pack up and move’ in there as well?
I have five billion reasons that say the NSW treasurer is living in la la land. |
Originally Posted by normanton
(Post 10756094)
Oh please. It's a political stunt to keep the voters. Neither the QLD or NSW government have any intentions to help out.
I have five billion reasons that say the NSW treasurer is living in la la land. |
Virgin should just get 3 head offices one WSA, Brissy and Melbourne.:rolleyes: Problem solved.
States are just posturing hoping someone will stump up the cash before they move. Only a fool will buy in without the debt being quarantined in some way. |
As was said above, administration is probably the only way that debt can be quarantined. But that may be the end of the Virgin brand in Australia.
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Has it been 20mins yet? No announcement on ASX for VAH
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Sunfish strikes again.
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VAH ASX Announcements- 20/04/20
Fitch Ratings Update: https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/202004...mx6h9vv5t0.pdf
Moody's Rating Update: https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/202004...msdqpb0fvd.pdf Rgds S28- BE |
The saber rattling between NSW and QLD governments is pathetic.
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VH-LFA - Couldn't agree more but will certainly try. Both Qld and NSW are showing themselves as needy, unrealistic and just plain stupid. The airy fairy proposals are based on so-many preconditions that they are obviously designed as a publicity stunt. Shame on them.
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Libs and Labour having a good old crack at each other. Virgin just the puppet here.
Hey, this could work out for Virgin here. Pissing contest back and forth, back and forth, Virgin will have its Billon bucks in no time! Scurrah can just grab the popcorn, sit back relax and let his cash arrive courtesy of some ******** pollies pissing contest. As Virgin Australia scrambles to stave off collapse, NSW and Queensland have entered a bidding war over which state will secure the airline's headquarters. Queensland has vowed to "stop at nothing" to keep Virgin's headquarters in Brisbane and has warned the NSW government to "back right off". Virgin Australia planes sit idle at Brisbane Airport during the pandemic. Photo: Darren England - AAPThe NSW government has put forward a Virgin Australia rescue package - with the condition of relocating the airline's headquarters to Sydney. On Saturday, the Queensland government offered a $200 million rescue package for the country's second national carrier - as long as its headquarters remained in Bowen Hills in Brisbane. Queensland State Development Minister Cameron Dick said he would "fight any attempt by New South Wales to steal Virgin Australia from Queensland to Sydney". "Back right off. Just don’t go there,” Mr Dick said. "If the world knows one thing, it knows this: there is nothing more dangerous than Queenslanders with their backs to the wall. "New South Wales might want to bring a pea-shooter to the fight, we will bring a bazooka and we're not afraid to use it. “At a time when their jobs hang in the balance, the 1200 Queensland families who depend on those head office jobs should not have to face the threat of being forced to move to Sydney." NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian said her government was "considering all the options we have moving forward". RELATED ARTICLEAVIATIONNSW coy on Virgin bailout as Victoria rejects calls for help"If that means encouraging businesses to set up shop in NSW, if it means bringing jobs to our state, we will, of course, consider all those things," she said."At the end of the day, my government is responsible for NSW, I don't apologise for that." Mr Dick has not ruled out pouring more money in to keep the ailing airline in Queensland. The escalation in the bidding war comes as Queensland reported no new cases of COVID-19 on Monday for the first time since March 9. Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said it was an “absolutely tremendous” result and said if numbers continued to stay down for weeks, she would consider lifting restrictions. More than 1000 Queenslanders have been infected with the virus since the state recorded its first case in late January. About half of those people have since recovered and of those still infected, 20 patients remain in hospital, with seven of those in intensive care on ventilators. |
Expect Virgin to announce receivership in about 20 minutes. My watch may have stopped. How is the time where you are? |
I don't think we'll be hearing much until about 0930 Wednesday.
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I said “20 minutes” that would be 10.00 am. I didn’t say which month, just 20 minutes :}
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Originally Posted by Sunfish
(Post 10756046)
The only other chance is perhaps Paul Little and some Melbourne heavies buying in, but I would suspect they may need to ensure they can keep the AOC, while getting rid of half the fleet.
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Singapore should take back the Tiger AOC and rebrand it as Scooter.
A Scoot Domestic fleet with 20-30 aircraft would be sustainable, without Virgin. Its certainly a option. Scoot is in the progress of upgrading its CEO to NEO and will have available aircraft. They could base it in Sydney and take on a few hundred million in incentives. Scoot is now run by Campbell again, so most certainly possible. |
Originally Posted by Sunfish
(Post 10756174)
I said “20 minutes” that would be 10.00 am. I didn’t say which month, just 20 minutes :}
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If DA thinks the statement from Sunfish is "unconscionable" how on earth would he handle a world wide virus pandemic were we to experience one?
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With respect DA, if you are relying on PPrune for information then you are self-harming.
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If anyone takes what Sunfish saids as anything other than a pathetic cry for attention then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
As far as Sunfish is concerned I will paraphrase Mark Twain: It is better to not post anything and let people think you are a fool than to hit submit reply and remove all doubt. |
They've gone into administration.
Deloitte understood to be appointed administrator for Virgin AustraliaIt is understood big four accounting firm Deloitte will be appointed as Virgin Australia’s administrators.The move comes after the federal government rebuffed the airline’s request for a $1.4bn emergency loan as part of a wider industry bailout package and despite duelling aid offers from NSW and Queensland, each of which wanted to host Virgin Australia’s HQ. It is not clear what will happen to the approximately 10,000 people who work for Virgin Australia if it goes into administration. Also unclear is what will happen to its fleet of 130 planes, many of which are heavily mortgaged. The company has been crushed by a $4.8bn mountain of debt and has been burning cash while the fleet is grounded. |
Guardian is the only source I can find on this so far, ASX has nothing released other than today's rating changes. Maybe than have an inside scoop other outlets don't?
Sad news coming off the back of State governments touching gloves over where the headquarters are located. I've not been in favour personally of a bailout in this thread but it's sad that any actual progress that may have been made in favour of one has been focused on keeping a HQ in a state rather than keeping people employed and the airline operating. |
It’s in the Fin Review now as well. Board meeting tonight.
thoughts to all VA staff and families. Hopefully something good comes out of it re a new investor |
Sunfish was very close to the mark he almost nailed it!
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It should be noted state government funding was going to be contingent on VA. It will still be available when the new Virgin rises, joining forces with whoever else joins the party...and it’ll be a party. My point...a sad situation, but there is hope. My thoughts sincerely, to all the great Virgin staff who deserve far better. I hope everyone can be flying again soon.
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From the Sydney Morning Herald
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...20-p54lcd.html Virgin Australia is preparing to go into voluntary administration, sources say, unable to survive under the weight of enormous debts and starved of cash by the coronavirus travel shutdown. Australia's number two airline had already appointed Deloitte to looking at potential restructuring options and the accounting firm is expected to run the administration process, including trying to find new owners to keep it flying. Virgin's board of directors were meeting on Monday. One well-placed source said the announcement of it going into administration was "imminent". Virgin employs around 10,000 people directly and supports another 6000 jobs indirectly. The airline was saddled with around $5 billion in debt and was running out of money as the coronavirus pandemic forced it to almost completely shut down its business. The company being reborn through a deed of company arrangement struck in administration is "the airline's only chance", said a source familiar with Virgin's struggles. Virgin's future had hung in the balance ever since the pandemic took hold. It had asked the federal government for a $1.4 billion loan to see it through the crisis but was rebuffed. Several private equity firms are already sniffing around Virgin looking to potentially buy the business out of administration, which will see some of its debts wiped and aircraft leases renegotiated. More to come |
Same story here.....
Ben Butler Deloitte understood to be appointed administrator for Virgin AustraliaIt is understood big four accounting firm Deloitte will be appointed as Virgin Australia’s administrators.The move comes after the federal government rebuffed the airline’s request for a $1.4bn emergency loan as part of a wider industry bailout package and despite duelling aid offers from NSW and Queensland, each of which wanted to host Virgin Australia’s HQ. It is not clear what will happen to the approximately 10,000 people who work for Virgin Australia if it goes into administration. Also unclear is what will happen to its fleet of 130 planes, many of which are heavily mortgaged. The company has been crushed by a $4.8bn mountain of debt and has been burning cash while the fleet is grounded. |
This action might well produce the best outcome for Virgins wonderful staff and their customers. Don’t despair. Many voluntary administrations have a good ending. It’s not over yet.
Be aware though that Qantas will now be doing its level best to drive an oak stake through Virgins heart. I would expect they will engage in dirty tricks. Rumor, fake news, attempts at locking them out of terminals, lobbying CASA, Government and suppliers, etc. Stay strong. |
Originally Posted by crosscutter
(Post 10756303)
It should be noted state government funding was going to be contingent on VA. It will still be available when the new Virgin rises, joining forces with whoever else joins the party...and it’ll be a party. My point...a sad situation, but there is hope. My thoughts sincerely, to all the great Virgin staff who deserve far better. I hope everyone can be flying again soon.
Virgin reported losses, as Qantas made profitsJonathan Rochford, a funds manager at Narrow Road Capital, told ABC News Virgin Australia had been poorly managed for years, and he thought insolvency would be the best option."Virgin has a myriad of problems and a government bailout without insolvency will get in the way of fixing these problems," he said. Mr Rochford argues Virgin has consistently struggled to attract the high paying customers to be a strong competitor to Qantas. After an IPO at $2.25 in 2003, its shares have rarely traded above $0.50 in the past decade, he said. "The company has pursued growth over profits adding marginal routes that weighed down the good business it had servicing the capital city routes," Mr Rochford said. "This failed strategy has left the airline overloaded with aircraft. "The sale and subsequent repurchase of part of the frequent flyer business has left it loaded with debt, with most of the fleet and the frequent flyer business locked up by secured creditors." Virgin wants a $1.4 billion bailout. Here's how that could workhttps://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/1213932...chute-data.jpgA nation of travellers is grounded and Virgin is asking for government help to the tune of $1.4 billion. Here's how a bailout of the Aussie airlines could work. He said a government bailout, if put in place without insolvency, would "delay and obstruct the necessary restructuring and increase the risk that Virgin ultimately ends up like Ansett". He also pointed out that about 75 per cent of the debt is believed to be owed to foreign lenders. "A bailout of Virgin without an insolvency is likely to result in hundreds of millions of dollars being transferred from Australian taxpayers to foreign lenders," Mr Rochford said. A revamped Virgin Australia would be better off concentrating on profitable critical domestic routes, employing less staff and reducing its fleet, he said. In such a scenario, Virgin Australia's loss-making low-cost offshoot, Tigerair Australia, would disappear, and new owners would step in. As seen on ABC.website. Quite telling re multi millions being transferred from Australian Taxpayers to foreign lenders. Nuff said. |
Faaaark, hate this ****. Thought for all the V crew. Get on to whatever VA Ops / HR website you guys have and take snapshots of everything important. Leave balances, payslips, currency, sim, EP all that ****. Access might be lost pretty quick if things don’t go well.
Hope this turns out as well as it can for all our V mates. Am feeling pretty distressed for you guys right now. |
Does this mean the GDOJ is dead?
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Its Done................... being reported Virgin Australia is in Voluntary Administration
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Originally Posted by Tommy Bahama
(Post 10756355)
Its Done................... being reported Virgin Australia is in Voluntary Administration
Reports are board are meeting within the hour So watch the ASX 7pm onwards |
The Perth Mining Operation could be sold off or VARA/Whatever it’s called.
Tiger AOC could be sold to Scoot. To be honest just get rid of it. The AOC isn’t worth anything. Virgin 737 Domestic stand-alone, with 3 or 4 lounges, feeding of International Partners only, probably has legs too. I don’t think it’s gone forever. It’s clear NSW and QLD will be a major player in the Administration process. What’s on the other side of the fence, we’ll rewind the clock 15 years and I think that’s what they should go back to. |
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...a3c93959710a1b
"Virgin’s Australia’s board is understood has concluded its meeting, with the airline to be formally placed into voluntary administration on Tuesday." |
VA won't disappear but it will be heavily downsized, as it would eventually have been anyway.
Good luck to everyone, those at VA won't be the only casualties. |
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