Hey WorthWhat,
There is an State Election in Tasmania in March, mind you that did not help Holden as South Australia has an Election in March as well. :confused: Go Figure, the results will be interesting as to how Aussies feel about the Coalition. :)
National Interest ahead of Politics, you are joking aren't you?

bit by bit more is revealed as already predicted on this thread way back....

All sounded so good back when "Alan was happy" announcing the EK/QF tie up ....:hmm:

If the qF 9/10 service is eventually stopped is a tacit admission that the link up with Emirates has failed. Cancelling more routes is hardly "turning around" longhaul internationa especially while it continues to have to absorb costs such as the Aoc split and subsidising Jet* (still).

I wouldn't be reading too much into the cancellations - VAI is doing it tough this time of year as well. From tomorrow, there will be two B777s out of service for a week and at least one out for the next few weeks for scheduled repaints, etc.

......and it was in the last thirty minutes before the announcement was made and still negotiating, that concessions not previously agreed to, (whatever they were) finally were, and got the agreement across the line.
The comment from Tim Clark in reference to that last thirty minute period suggested strongly that up to then, agreement had not been reached.
Could it be that that concessions that we see disadvantaging Qantas today were the ones agreed to at the last moment by Joyce?

This is a 5 year agreement, perhaps inescapable !!

Much more bad news for Qantas to come, I expect.

So any truth to the rumour that Alan's last trip to Dubai was an attempt to collect some cash for his strategy?
Emirates accounts payable section didn't have any record.
😁

Rumour I'm hearing was he went up there to organise his new job. Can only hope that rumour is true. :D

I heard that his visit was to bed down the JNB codeshare. I can imagine EK sitting down to the table, well aware of QF's fleet status, saying something like "no revenue sharing, and what the f*ck are you going to do about it?"

Payoff for another job well done? Wreck Qf for the puppet masters, look as big as you can (stop laughing ppl!) to the sandpit to organise a nice golden parachute job for youself in addition to the golden parachute your current employer gave you. Nice...

Sickening.

SYD - JNB gone
DXB -LHR gone ( 1 flight at least)
BNE and MEL Terminals sold then leased back
FF Float.
2800 extra staff gone, including 250 pilots. Thats what I have just heard.

I sincerely hope that is not true.

I think I can hear the fat lady warming her vocal cords as we speak.......:rolleyes:

That sounds about right, sad to say. Unless they bite the bullet and do the checks on the six jumbos due soon they will have to drop JNB and change Japan to the 330.

The fleet has been shrinking faster than the approximately 3%/year pilot group reductions, and there have been recent changes to eliminate S/Os on the nearby Asian destinations.

250 pilots sounds about right, maybe slightly more, although I hope that zero is the outcome.

As far as the non-frontline staff go: we have seen burgeoning management numbers for a dwindling fleet in a mature market. Surely they could find a couple of thousand recent hires whom to teach the bitter lesson of QF Kool-Aide?

From a long-time observer of airlines, I cannot see how reducing the business to a few under serviced Asian routes and LAX/JFK will provide the needed international counterpoint to keep domestic viable. On the other hand, I met someone today who has flown Jetstar twice, so apparently it is possible to overestimate the market.

Japan I think will stay with the 747 due to J class loads however Dallas I think will go to American Airlines. The manager there told me it was bleeding $1 million a week. The hot rumour at the moment is that 787 order will finally be canned, and that in my opinion would be the final nail in the coffin of Qantas.

There is the burning issue of transmission of business and jetstar re the retrenchment of mainline pilots.

Direct in their 777?

No doubt DFW is loosing money. This was little Al's big new route, so along with the Emirates tie up everything he has touched to save " mainline" has been a failure. Super management........not

AA don't have any 777s that can do the route with no restrictions. Only the 77L can do this and the only US airline with 77Ls is DL.

Well that will be a sh*tfight.....

Doesnt the law require them to offer VR first?

Given the financial state, anyone holding onto 'strict seniority' is IMO dreaming....

Simon Hickey indicated at the meeting in Dec that DFW on average is breaking even - loses money some weeks & makes money other weeks (international flying is very seasonal). Business & Premium Economy classes are almost always full and it's a very popular flight with business men/women as it results in a shorter overall travel time.

The B787 order was canned quite some time ago with the 65 orders/options reduced to just 14 aircraft for JQ - 50 purchase rights don't qualify as a "B787 Order".

Would someone pls get rid of this little Irish ****

and the existence of Jet Connect and EFA.

Nope. Not that many. Maybe 250. 300 max. Of that we have a couple of hundred on LWOP. That's based on the known forecasts. End of this month may change the numbers and perhaps the 500 may well be right.

Given its last on, first off, redundancy is relatively cheap. The retraining costs on the other hand..... As one of our managers said not so long ago, our total crew numbers are close to right- or a manageable surplus at least. The issue we have is that we have bodies in the wrong places and wrong ranks. Not enough S/Os on the dugong, too many F/Os on the 767, etc.

Not sure there's ever been an airline that cut back its way to profitability so I can't see that further cuts is going to do anything significant.

Regarding transmission of business case vs mainline pilot redundancies: doesn't the company now have the trump card of "we are saving the airline because otherwise we will go broke" line? Also likely to get support from federal government in the current climate.:ugh:

Not necessarily, just ask the ALAEA about how that works in reality. Qanas management will use every trick in the book to keep those that they want and discard those that they don't, and it will have to fit their economic model.
Think that it means what it says...... Think again.

With pilots of all ranks and fleets spread out all over the seniority list, the retraining and redundancy costs would be through the roof if Last on, First Off occurred, and after all the reduction in numbers processes that would happen.
Far cheaper for more leave without pay, so you'd except QF to start pushing it's excess pilots to EK, JQ and the like with negotiated LWOP deals.
Aren't EK screaming for airbus rated pilots?

Yes. Wouldn't surprise me if QF start looking a lot harder at agreements similar to what they did in the '70s where they actively sought opportunities rather than simply letting pilots have LWOP if the pilot sought the opportunity.

Heck, they could probably supply crew to China Southern for about the same as China Southern is paying and as long as still australian based they'd probably get a number of crew take that I lieu of demotion.

Redundancy very specifically excludes LOFO, it is always requirements based specifically to prevent discrimination other than the business requirements.

FWA Definition

LOFO - In Pilot terms at QF, would there be anyone who has been employed for shorter than the odious leper echaun?

Pilots get 'offered' positions at China Southern (and no offence to them) LWOP etc etc but the group of INCOMPETENTS, sycophants and thieves that cause and continue the problem get multi million $$ 'payments of gratitude' for the extraordinary services and sacrifices they have made over the last ..... let me count ..... in some cases as much as 7 months???...

OK so I exaggerate, but it MAKES ME SICK!!!

Sooo ...no government financial assistance, no government guarantee for aircraft purchases, no support for changes to QSA , sale of everything not nailed down...can't be long now !!

lets not forget gifting and abandonment of valuable routes, cancellation of aircraft orders, lack of coherent strategy beyond fire sale, avoidance of necessary asset maintenance and no friends left except EK.

Lets hope it is not long before someone asks what the hell are these guys doing.

I have been saying for a while, why is no one asking just what is going on?

I'd gladly pay a "one off" levy to my union/professional association to take a two page spread in The Australian.

Outlining the failures of Qantas management and calling for them to step down.

Why wait for a late February announcement to allow them to determine our collective futures. Time to turn up the heat.

The levy would probably be less than a case of beer :)

MC

Totally agree, Caution.

Would also be happy to contribute. Things need to be made more clear for the general public, so that everyone can be aware the mad destruction going on.

I am in! Where do I sign up?

Are you sure about that Romulus?

From the Long Haul Pilots Determination 2013

"The Company may make pilots compulsorily redundant, which will occur in reverse order of seniority – that is, on a last on first off basis except that the Company may ‘pass over’ a pilot who is on LWOP and that period of leave commenced prior to the issuing of the notice of compulsory redundancy and was approved for a period of more than 12 months. Where a pilot is on LWOP that was not approved prior to the issuing of notices of redundancy and that period of LWOP was approved for a period of less than 12 months then:

(i) the Company may extend the minimum period of notice to the day on which the pilot returns from LWOP; and
(ii) the Company will not be required to make the pilot redundant if on the date of redundancy the pilot, if made redundant, would be eligible for an offer of re-employment under clause 15.10.19."

From the Licenced Aircraft Engineers Determination 2012

"The redundancy program shall have regard to:

55.7.1 Retaining an age, skill and experience balance within areas of employment in each employment category;
55.7.2 No discrimination against employees;
55.7.3 Special efforts to minimise retrenchment of apprentices or trainees; and 55.7.4 service with the Company.
55.7.5 Qantas will consult with the employees affected and if requested by an employee their representative including an accredited representative of the Association on the process to be adopted on a case by case basis."

ALAEA had a survey a while back on the redundancy issue, around the time the company came out with the "Matrix".

Majority of members voted for LOFO as the preferred option for selection.

WP last on first off in engineering would leave the place devoid of many new gen licenses and would keep the dinosaurs on 35-40 years earning $200K whilst not actually doing any hands on work. Then to add insult to injury the buddy system the puts 2 ancient DMMs on 330 training. All that will do is fluff up their super, their is no way the company would get a return on investment for the cost of the training.

LOFO great in theory, but in practice it would be a different story.

I don't think getting rid of the $200k dinosaurs that don't do any hands on work will be a realistic outcome either nor should be. Not their fault they are on the gravy train.

"Nastyswine" has already mentioned LOFO is the least complex method to be used if required, I assume from a legal standpoint anyways.

If they sack 250 pilots, just think of all the spare time we'd have to play cricket matches against each other. :rolleyes:

Mitch and Clarkey watch out! :}