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Qf base has always been so much higher and now in order to be competitive they need to lower it- hence the conflict with the unions. Also VA has had the benefit of most staff experiencing the growth of the airline from nothing and the pride ensuing from that. More likely then that the staff feel more connected to the challenges. They feel the pinch of not enough money every day. |
Qantas is not too big to fail, in fact it is probably the best possible outcome for the business as it would create the opportunity for someone to pick up the carcass and have a crack without the legacy baggage that the airline currently carries. Their plan? Let Qantas declare itself broke. Sack everybody and let Jetstar take over. Everybody gets reemployed on half salary ... Does anybody remember 1989? Seriously there is an evil plan. Bus Drivers on $500,000 are in target range |
Ahhh all good except for one small detail.
The gentleman that "went back" in 1989 were paid a LOT more money. They had to work their asses off but it was a LOT MORE MONEY. :ugh: |
Berealgetreal. A interesting letter. The difference with the staff I worked with in TAA and later QF have very little to do with the staff of today. I believe its called attitude. You don't have to go far to see it, sometimes in your own kids, regardless of how you try to bring them up. In all fairness to QF staff though, they had their careers taken away from them, and put on contracts, by Dixon. That immediately had a effect on customer service, and they quickly developed a "who givsa" attitude, never seen in Asian Carriers. Most of the staff of today would not have lasted five minutes in the "old" TN/QF/AN. I believe its called progress. Recently we took a trip on both JQ and QF. JQ to SYD from BNE, SYD to LAX, QF (business class). There was no comparison. On JQ my wife was assisted with her cabin luggage, the girls were sociable, and friendly, and we enjoyed the flight, then some hours later on to QF. The CC watched her try to put her small bag in the overhead locker, (she is fifty kilo's, wringing wet) did not ask if she needed any help, she asked how the sleeper beds worked, they said its easy to work out, and left it at that. I put it down to that we were on staff travel, on the manifest, and therefore should be treated as such. But then "attitude" raised its ugly head again, not just to us, but all around us. Some of these young flight attendants, really are just plain rude, and disrespectful, but on the trip home we had a much older crew, who were good, efficient, and God help us, pleasant. I wrote a letter to QF, telling of them about attitude problems, I am still waiting for a answer, but perhaps then again, staff opinions don't count. If I had to pay five grand to fly business, I would look to SQ/TG, where you are treated politely, and with respect, regardless of what they really think of you. On QF, you are left in no doubt, by some. I have no idea if the Tech crew receive the same treatment, I cannot imagine it, but then again.............?
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For what it's worth....
I had a very interesting lunch with a couple of MacBank fund managers yesterday. Getting the conversation around to Qantas, I was amazed to hear what they essentially were suggesting was the 'game plan' that had been doing the rounds amongst the big institutionals. The essence of it was:
* A consortium of some sort has been gathering pace for sometime, using mostly local capital. They insinuated that this had been the reason why the Abbott govt has been sitting on its hands. Said the 'Go' price was about 90cents a share, and some funds have been shorting the stock with this figure in mind. * Chris Corrigan has been approached as a potential CEO under the consortium-led Qantas. Corrigan is currently chairman of QUBE. No surprises as to what the motive would be there. * Regardless of the outcomes, they seemed to be of the view that Joyce's days are numbered. If Corrigan was to get the gig, Leigh Clifford would retain his board spot in a combined effort to go union-busting. Certainly sounds like a situation that will gather pace very quickly. |
Qf base has always been so much higher and now in order to be competitive they need to lower it- hence the conflict with the unions. |
So which would the unions rather? Their members get paid a marginally lower base rate? |
Nitpicker
Yes they were paid a lot more money but they were paid to be productive- if they didn't want to work the hours, the money was pretty ordinary. Productivity gains= fewer needed to do the job. Make no mistake , as I have been saying this is a course of action which has been in train for some time. Qantas will survive but as a leaner entity where everyone will work for every cent. Qantas livery, Jetstar conditions. |
emergency000
The unions are responding to the workers fears that they won't be able to meet their financial obligations on a lower salary. And the pay drop will be significant- with the option for overtime to earn more, but everyone will have to work much harder to earn anywhere near the money. Also as the airlines recruited post '89, there were fewer jobs available due to the fact that fewer pilots could achieve the same productivity through different conditions. I hope it doesn't come to this but if it is Corrigan, I would get your house in order and be prepared. |
BrissySparklyColt
Just another one of the injustices of life. Next time, Ill come back as a manager. |
Why does it always come back to unions and pay? Insider Trader, interesting. |
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True, but so do Telstra, Australia Post and a number of other privatised companies. Telstra has a huge advantage in infrastructure terms that makes it hard for anyone else, no matter how much money they have to come in and compete. If it wasn't for some services that I can't get from anybody else I would dump Telstra in a instance. As for Qantas I havn't done much traveling in the last several years, but in the past no matter how much I wanted to use them the hip pocket wouldn't allow it. Sentiment will only let you go so far. |
Sure, but Qantas also had huge advantages and superior infrastructure compared to Virgin, particularly after the Ansett collapse. Virgin started with a handful of aircraft operating out of scungy terminals, and yet they're allegedly whomping Qantas only a decade after they started.
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and some funds have been shorting the stock with this figure in mind. |
rh200 As for Qantas I havn't done much traveling in the last several years, but in the past no matter how much I wanted to use them the hip pocket wouldn't allow it. Sentiment will only let you go so far. e.g. if you want to fly MEL-SYD next Thursday 12 Dec, arriving before 09:00, you could pay: $96 (Jetstar, inc. bag), $115 (Tiger, inc. bag) $245 (Virgin, no bag) or $175 (Qantas, inc. bag). Virgin's advertised low price of $115 is available only after 8 PM - no good if you plan to do anything daytime in Sydney. Just saying - the proposition that the Roo is always the most expensive is a fallacy. Domestic mainline is competing with Jetstar - they've successfully commoditised their own business because there's only a very small, unadvertised benefit in the mainline product. However the assertion does hold true in the business segment where QF really wants to compete. QF business is priced according to demand through the day - $595 in the middle of the day, $799 at peak times, while Virgin is a flat $639 all day. Not sure what relative load factors are like - hardly ever see anyone on Virgin's business class on flights I have taken, while QF seems to be maxed out - probably all public service types. Source of all fares - Webjet Webjet Travel |
A friend of mine at Airports just reserved a couple of seats on todays DXB flight for the CEO, INT CEO, JQ CEO, Queen of Loyalty and co… I guess the sell off gains momentum….
Interesting that the new uniform for Frontline staff has no Kangaroo or any assimilation with anything Australian. Not even the word Qantas appears on the name badge. Will make the "transformation" to 90% foreign owned a seamless end to end experience for all. |
Most companies have a rule that limit the number of Execs who fly together, just in case the unthinkable happens. Guess that last story tells a lot about the value of QF Execs.
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Interesting that the new uniform for Frontline staff has no Kangaroo or any assimilation with anything Australian. Not even the word Qantas appears on the name badge. |
Quote: Interesting that the new uniform for Frontline staff has no Kangaroo or any assimilation with anything Australian. Not even the word Qantas appears on the name badge. Just getting everyone ready to wear an Emirates uniform. 1. Half the International fleet to be operated by JQ 2. The other half to Ek and jointly operated https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...92762559_o.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...34146942_o.jpg |
Funnily enough, that qantas emirates livery looks pretty bloody good!
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Good Lord!!!
Why would Emirates do that sort of damage to a world class brand? |
Qantas livery, Jetstar conditions |
1a sound asleep...
The registration of the EmiratesQantas aircraft's wrong. It should be A6-QEK. :p |
Well on Agenda (Sky) just now, Xenophon has just torn stripes of Joyce and the board, saying he represented QF staff who are totally fed up with the present board, the present management, and past management. He was not backwards in coming forward, was Nick. Blimey, I have never heard a pollie go off like that before, against a Australian company. He accused them of squandering millions, he accused them of possibly having a agenda, he let them have it, all guns blazing. If that does not move the shareholders, whom I suspect, are awaiting the three amigo's to save them, then I don't know what will.
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Fantastic, any way we could get a video link to watch somewhere?
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The winner goes to Ida down for the 787th post! :E
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Nick Xylophone has forgotten that Qantas is a public company and not a GBE. Shareholders not pollies appoint the board who manage the business for better or for worse!
This country still wants the Gumnit to be responsible for everything = The Nanny State.....:ooh: |
Nick vs Little Al
One of Nicks tweets;
Alan Joyce could be to Qantas what Captain Francesco Schettino was to the Costa Concordia. 6 Dec More fun stuff here; QANTAS CEO and Board Must Go | Nick Xenophon - Independent Senator for South Australia |
Well, well, well,
A bigger bunch of incompitent lightweights i've never seen in one place at one time. As we speak - yes it's true, on the QF1 out of Sydney this afternoon (all loaded in the best trough swilling places) were - wait for it; Little Ghay Clover Boy - spare me. Simon H - CEO of "International" Could look at him and he'd fall over! Hard Licker - oh dear - the Deer in headlights - completely out of her depth. Obviously no BoganAir seats to get to the sandpit! Leesley Grunt - failed at anset then failed at en zed, now failing in a spectacular way at Cue eF. Waste of space. Several bored members placed in upper deck bisinis class - apparently not 'starf members' so put into second trough level. All practicing buhm licking and grovelling to the sand pit carrier - so sickining. To top it off, Little gai alain contrived to get the qf "hero" Dick the discrepansee to be the p.i.c on this little jaunt to doobai. "Staff who had to witness were vomiting at the sight". Using some reflected Tech Crew glory to "talk up" the value of staff - right before he''l sack 'em. The play group exec's are all going 'cap-in-hand' to ask the good Prince Mohammed to help bail out the roo and poor little ghay boi. Sickening to observe. ( and all true). How much better if Capt Woodward or Capt Jackson were at the helm. Gingerbeers praying for a delay (had lots of late ) but unfortunately in arsy style - the pig kept ecams to herself. Make no mistake of the level of trough swilling and blatent rip-off that is happening by the thieves, not only at the top, but also by the "hangers on" Disgraceful. Sunfish - of course you are correct - the give away to EK is in full swing with not a cost to be spent by the middle east. As we speak, the 'lightweight' exec's are about 3 hours away from landing in the sandpit and giving away what is left to give. Disgraceful. :yuk: Disgraceful. :yuk: Disgraceful. :yuk: |
I thought things had been a bit quiet today.
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Big M...
You should do stand-up mate or write comedy film scripts. GOLD! FOCLMAO (Fall Off Chair Laughing My Arse Off) |
Investors on the sidelines, for now, WOW!
Something is missing from the great Qantas survival debate - the company's main shareholders. The management, led by Alan Joyce, has been front and centre, the chairman Leigh Clifford has been flag-flying, the federal government has been vocal - albeit with inconsistent messages - and the unions have been weighing in. Senator Nick Xenophon has become an airline and corporate governance expert. But where are Qantas's owners? AWOL. It is traditional in times when a financial crisis has emerged for the main shareholders to begin agitating, applying pressure on management either to change the strategy or to move on. But Qantas doesn't have much of an activist investor set. Big international fund management group Capital is the largest shareholder and tends to trade around the edges, although it appears to be reducing its stake. One could only imagine the behind-the-scenes meetings and the queues outside Leigh Clifford's office if the likes of Perpetual, BT, Perennial, etc, had sizeable holdings in Qantas. Instead Joyce and Clifford are two legs of the governance stool - mutually supportive and wedded to a strategy that has flaws. It has been convenient to blame fierce competition from Virgin for their woes and, make no mistake, this is the icing on the cake. It is just not the full story. Virgin now has some powder in its keg, thanks to supportive shareholders, to fund its capacity and fare war. As a listed company Qantas also has the ability to go to the market and raise fresh funds. At least in theory. But it's a hard task when the shareholder base is mainly retail shareholders. There would be support for a deeply discounted underwritten issue but it would be very expensive. Instead the board sees the answer in the partial sale of some assets and the full disposal of others, such as the terminals. It is a defensive move. But it's hard to see how this addresses the underlying and ongoing problem. Qantas needs to raise the white flag on the capacity war and relax the 65 per cent line in the sand on market share. It is meant to be about profitable market share not running planes that are 70 per cent full on falling yields. The management would also receive an immediate vote of confidence if it undertook to desist in the bankrolling of Jetstar's offshore subsidiaries - seen as profligacy at a time when Qantas can ill afford it. The fact Qantas could lose $300 million in the six months to December and that amount again the following six months cements how damaging the strategy has been. The ratings agency downgrade is very costly and of Qantas's own making. During the next few weeks another theme will begin to emerge in this saga. Is there an opportunity for some private equity players to take an involvement - buy the stock on the cheap and manufacture a turnaround? There will undoubtedly be some tyre-kickers who would be keen to flog bits and pieces such as the frequent-flyer scheme and bits of Jetstar or airline terminals. Already there have been suggestions that former Macquarie investment banker Greg Woolley has investors lined up to buy some of the Qantas fleet, as long as it comes with a government guarantee. But, if Qantas is having trouble getting the government on board for a guarantee, it's hard to imagine an airline leasing company having any luck. The word in private equity circles is that at the current price there is limited appetite for the shares. But if the Qantas share price sinks too far below $1 the investment complexion changes. There will be plenty of people coming out of the woodwork, in time, just no one especially credible yet. In the meantime Joyce needs to clean up some of the mess created in the past month. The heavy-handed approach to stopping Virgin's equity issue has badly backfired and, despite protestations to the contrary from Qantas, the government is firm in its position that providing any sort of financial assistance to the airline opens an unpalatable can of worms. The most immediate task will be to assure the flying public that Qantas is secure and remains open for business. The airline can ill-afford to lose forward bookings or have a run on frequent-flyer redemptions. This would move the situation from bad to catastrophic. Australians have seen the collapse of a big airline - Ansett - and don't take the view that it can't happen again. Qantas is a long way from worrying about changes to the ownership limitations in the Qantas Sale Act. That is a job for another day when the intensity of the crisis has passed. Joyce has until February to come up with a structural solution that will satisfy the ratings agencies and the stock market. If the share price drifts down sufficiently even a complaint board would need to be asking whether the management that devised the strategy is in a position to revise it. my bold Read more: Investors on the sidelines, for now BTW, Great post Big M! :D |
Will be interesting to see what comes out of Dubai.
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Where are the shareholders? The shareholders are awaiting the three amigo's who are cashed up, and ready to buy the carcase, left there by Dixon (one amigo) and Joyce (used to be a amigo, but not anymore) that's where. Buy her up, break her up, at a huge profit, to all involved, and welcome Qantstar! Was that not always the plan? Rethink those mortgage payments fella's and gals, if this is the true agenda, its JQ money, or the door. Just ask a 89er how it feels. it sucks. Jeeeesus, I hope I am wrong.
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Great post Big M, but a little disappointed the Ginger Beers did not pull the "faulty cargo door trick" so beloved by them, when they have the ****es. Not that I am complaining, nine times out of ten, the Techies used to agree with them!
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You are witnessing a tug of war between Emirates and Dixon, Carnegie, singleton et al. Who want to take it private.
Alan Joyce was deliberately chosen to make things worse, not better. That much is blindingly obvious. The corporate strategy constructed by Joyce and endorsed by the Board was a complete failure from the start. Anyone, in business knows that "foreigners" are carefully skinned in Chinese markets, they have been doing it since at least as early as 1935 by my late fathers recollections. the story is always the same - huge population and growing markets. But somehow the joint ventures always fail, costing the Westerners all their capital, and the Chinese partner always cleans up. funny that. To put that another way, what did you expect when a know nothing Irishman goes up against the Middle Kingdom??? I have said this from the start. Carnegie, Dixon, Singleton et al will no doubt have a master plan to renovate the Qantas brand that will be in place a microsecond after they get control. |
Alan Joyce has overseen a plunge in Qantas' fortunes | smh.com.au
More from Nick Xenophon. Like I said a few days ago. I think the senator is just warming up. |
You book a business class ticket from Oz to Europe with Qantas, you end up in the Emirates lounge drinking better champagne/whiskey, eating nicer food. You get on an Emirates aircraft where the same occurs with better service. You do the same on the way back. You think "why the hell don't I just book direct with Emirates next time?", Qantas loses it's best customers
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Alan Joyce says Qantas not Holden
BigAL quote from the article; "The Jetstar businesses in Asia are a great example of Australian entrepreneurship," he said. |
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