"One sixth of Group revenue comes from Asian operations". Alan Joyce.

Spin and dissembling.

Give us the Jetstar Asia figures, not the "Group" figures. Leave out the A380, 747 and QF A330 flights that go to Asia everyday. Tell us the whole story instead of hiding it behind blatant sophistry.

Why don't you highlight these figures Alan?

Load factors via BITRE Sept 13.

Aust-Thailand both J* and QF operating A330s

Load factor QF 85.8/ 78.4
Load factor JQ 64.1/ 69.6

Aust-Japan QF using 747s /J* A330 albeit different destination cities.

Load factor QF 74.0 /93.1
Load factor JQ 59.7 /79.4

All Intl services

Load factor QF 78.4/80.7
Load factor JQ 69.6/77.9

These are not blips. The figures go back as far as the BITRE data is available.

Q. At what point do you admit that long haul LCC operations don't work?

He'll never acknowledge those figures

No Alan. There are many examples of successful Australian businesses in Asia.

Big M, surely they have just breach their (QANTAS) corporate policy regarding senior executives flying on the same aircraft together, usually defined to ensure a successful 'succession plan'.

Can only assume that, Simon H, Hard Licker and Leesley Grunt are not in the running:rolleyes: to replace Little Ghay Clover Boy

Sunfish, I think they are more likely to detonate, rather than renovate! They are after the bones, not the carcase. You get more for bones, than flesh. Flesh rots. They will have QF on Ebay, two micro seconds after purchasing it. If that long. If this happens, it will be comfortable chair and popcorn time. The Govt. will go ballistic, Xenophon will have to put on oxygen, the country will start up a wail, ( we don't fly it, but youse blokes better get your FXXXXXG greasy mitts offa our history) the media will love it, the pilots and CC will be in a state of shock, ditto what's left of the ginger beers, there will be weeping in the great halls of SYD/MEL/BNE, et al, Terminals, and down tools in every QF section. Just remember the shock the country went into, when Joyce suddenly pulled the plug, some months ago. No flying Kangaroo? WTF? Then multiply that by 100. I am betting on people power, to keep QF in the air. Regardless of who buys it. After all, what Govt. wants to preside over the death of QF?

"One sixth of Group revenue comes from Asian operations". Alan Joyce.

Revenue does not equal profit.

Is it me, or have AirEnZed's fortunes improved since they got 777s?

#ShouldaBoughtTriplersAlan

On the money CHEER UP!!!! I am a licenced ginger beer on the 777, and have worked on many Asian/European/American operators tripplers who flog the arse out of them, and guess what? THEY DON'T BREAK!!! They just keep on going. Flight crews luv em. Meanwhile I have my intelligence insulted by QF management telling me the trippler is "OLD TECHNOLOGY". But hey what would I know, for I am just a mere bilge rat working at the coalface with 35 plus years experience (30 as a LAME) on RPT and GA aircraft. And what would all those 777 operators of "old technology" know...... they just keep on making profits!!!

Share price down 3% today - 96c and counting......down

VH-Cheerup

Check out an article in the latest Australian Aviation magazine re AirNZ.
To paraphrase: Air NZ profit up almost 150%, mainly due to innovation, at the heart of which was ideas from staff.

Now there are many kiwis who may beg to differ but I don't think Aussie staff are any less innovative than their kiwi cousins. So why not harness that power? I have been asking the question for years.

Oh when will they learn... :ugh:

Perhaps they are better at staff engagement than Qantas.
It's no surprise the difference it can make.

The crew is in Dubai for one reason. Notably the JQ and Int'l heavies.

They are begging for financial backing for Jetstars asian franchises. They are playing the angle that they can deliver endless passengers from all the small cities into EK's networks in Vietnam, Hong Kong, China, Singapore etc. They are there to tell them that EK would be so much better off with JQ Asia on board.

The CEO has a burning desire to see JQ become the worlds biggest LCC, and to outperform his nemesis, the Ryanair boss. He will do anything in his power to achieve this. There is a personal element in this.

The desperate man however has other problems. QF international is likely to be shrunk, inefficient aircraft retired, and more handed over to the EK goliath. Don't think the Ek managers are not astute enough to realise they are the ones in the driving position in these negotiations.

EK don't have 777's to spare. They are desperately awaiting the next batch of 300ER's that they ordered several years ago but which don't start arriving in significant numbers until late next year. QF won't be competing internationally with their current fleet mix and have no hope or means of changing this.

Other problems include the capital draining mass orders of 320's sitting idle in Asia. This problem is getting worse as they are still being manufactured and there is no getting out of the contracts. There is no chance of QF int'l seeing any new types such as the 787. The 777 for QF is a dead horse as the production slots are pretty much sold now until 2025 and beyond.

In order to see his baby prosper, he needs help, and needs a big player to rescue him. The cost of achieving this will be at the expense of many. QF Int'l is not the safest place to be.

A recent article in which TC was interviewed quoted him as saying he has no interest at all in an equity stake in Qantas. EK don't buy into airlines, they limit themselves to partnerships and that is it. Personally I don't blame them as they know how to run an airline, and wonder why they would buy one that is so diseased.

When Ansett went down, everyone believed Singapore was the saviour. Now that QF is on the ropes, everyone is clinging to the faint hope that EK is the saviour.

Personally, I have just got my logbook stamped and my family comes first, hence I am looking to the exit door now as a matter of urgency. Can't wait to get my super out of there as well.

Ansett had full planes up until its demise. But the cost of operating those planes was way above the competition, just as QF is finding now. So to all those who are reporting that their flights have been full therefore we are all safe are deluded.

Anything up to $60K plus per sector for fuel only is the cost of inefficient aircraft types. Where they could have received better equipment has been squandered as they chose to take large amounts of cash compensation from the 787 delays to prop up the yearly profit, and to fund the JQ expansion.

The point of no return has been passed.

So in a nutshell, Little Al and Jetstar have fed on the Qantas carcass until there is no more. Now it's off to find another host to feed on. Enter Emirates! :rolleyes:

He and the board really do believe everyone else are stupid.

I hope EK sends them packing with nothing except sand rash. :ok:

Crusty well said. Almost Every QF domestic flight with a 767 and A330 is losing money. Why ? Fares are not high enough to sustain the high leasing/operating costs of these planes. The truth is that the only a/c that make money on domestic routes anywhere in the world are the 737/757 and A319-A321. 767 fuel burn is too high and the A330 lease costs are nearly double the A319-A321

Convert the A320 orders to A350s and reinvigorate mainline!:E

1a, you do realise that the A330s carry a hell of a lot more passengers than the 738s, which is part of the lease cost.

If what you said was the case then QF could just dump all the 767s it has today and replace with all the Jetstar A320s that are sitting spare.

1a sound asleep

What are you smoking! B767s are fully owned....best money spinners in the group including the highest yielding route on the long-haul network, SYD-HNL-SYD (just ask the HNL manager), yep making lots of dollars! what would be the return if mainline had B787s. The game is up! Why would you sacrifice mainline for Jetstar?:ugh:

Crusty Demon

Spot On

Opal

Crusty,

A great post, the future does not look good for many, it is criminal how the current management have stuffed this up.

I did the AN thing and it hurts !

Best wishes,

Oz2

I am talking about domestic... 738 is far more profitable than a 767 domestic

..........

:mad:

And the post above is my fears exactly. The masterplan is starting to be revealed.

Qf and JQ to exist in a domestic capacity. FF business and QF to earn cash selling longhaul tickets on other carriers with whom they cannot compete profitably with.

JQ Asia to be a feeder for the EK goliath as well as QF Aus domestic. QF domestic will become safer if that occurs at least.

Pressure on Canberra engineered with threats of political fallout with regards to a government buyout. Canberra bent over the table with AJ standing behind. Guess they have to bow to his demands with regards to EK bilateral access in order to save their own political interests, and avoid having to get involved financially with QF or watch as the whole house of cards crumbles.

Just perhaps EK may be interested in saving JQ Asia. In return they get to use AJ to get them the goods in terms of Australian traffic rights. Their round the world dreams are closer to reality.

The situation whereby QF has a non competitive international business model and no solution for it (or capital) is solved. The longhaul unions are gone. We are left with shorthaul awards and JQ awards.

Transformation complete. Perhaps that has been the masterplan the whole game. Union busting agenda mostly complete.

If there wasn't a masterplan, why has he been allowed to go down this path for so long?

If true, lots of lives are screwed. But big bonuses and payouts for those who implemented it.

Guess I should have taken the 737 slot.

:ugh:

Well, if the share price continues it's downward spiral, Alan may have the takeover merchants to deal with as well.

"What ye shall sow, so shall ye reap"

Not long to go now, with the share price under $1.00 QF has now entered the strike zone, and Darth and his cronies will be circling like buzzards. Will they make a play for the Roo this week? Or perhaps feed the media some extra stories of doom and gloom for a few more days and drive the share price down a little lower, that way if the take over is successful at even a few cents a share less than today's price of $0.96 Darth and Co stand to make a few extra million!

The new QF Choir song;

Little Al recieved a phone call prior to boarding..........didn't board.....

His wife wanted him to bring milk and bread home??

Bumped? Staff travel can be a pain the arse I hear?

from many colleagues in the industry, no matter what happens the outcome seems very dire to QF intl!!!

And what of JQ? Does it keep its international flights to NRT etc? And what of the Dream Liner, I cannot see it doing SYD/MELS all day? It is all very feasible from the sandpit, and certainly makes sense (from their point of view) but are you saying EK does the SYD/MNL/BKK/DPS, etc run and onto LHR and Europe, whilst JQ Asia feeds it from all points east? And it nicks the States, as a sweetener, as well? All this to keep Joyce's dream alive? What of the A380's and their crews? This seems to deliver more questions, than answers.

Paragraph. He does not have a missus. He has two poodles.

I said 'wife' as 'tongue in cheek', so to speak!

Sorry Paragraph, thought for a moment there, that coming from NZ, you might have missed the goss! But then again I should have realised you blokes know more that the TSV refuellers, and that is saying something. We used to get much pleasure in feeding them a lot of crap, and then see if we could beat it to MEL. We never did, and it was never the same story!

Hey Para! Haven't heard that for ages. Ta.

Rumour today is the two qf flights to LHR are to be operated be ek metal.

Wonder what the rumour tomorrow will be.

The don.

This would free up fleet for the EK SYD-LAX flights. Opps, shhhhhhhhhhhh!;)

Anyone know how redundancy works when it comes to QF short haul?

I was told that short haul pilots cannot be displaced by the reduction in numbers provisions but that if it came to massive long haul redundancies, then overall seniority would be used. So short haul 'Q' pilots would likely face redundancy.

So if they closed longhaul, just about every shorthaul pilot would be made redundant by senior longhaul pilots.. Except for the 'A' pilots who have protected shorthaul positions over any 'Q' pilot, even if the 'A' pilots are in longhaul.

So how does the shorthaul award, longhaul award and integration agreement work in the case of massive redundancies?

Don, heard te same from the dispatcher this morning, QF flights become terminators in DXB, EK 380s carry on to London, giving EK an extra two slots a day into LHR. But, as you say, let's see what tomorrow brings.

Same same here from the ginger beer who dispatched us last night....

This just gets better and better. More beer! More popcorn! Quickly, before the end of the show!:D