Jetstar pilot EBA dead
 

Around 6 weeks ago, Jetstar cancelled the courses of around 15 pilot new hires to the Australian EBA, many of these guys had already resigned from their jobs.

This morning we found out why:

Jetstar is about to commence a new style of contract for new pilots within Australia. The new terms and conditions will be a deterioration to the present pilots EBA 2008 and will be offered firstly to Jetstar Asia and Jetstar New Zealand employees who may wish to transfer to Australia to take up promotion opportunities within Australia, possibly at the expense of those already on the Australian EBA.

For current employees of Jetstar Australia, promotion and transfer opportunities may well become very difficult indeed! This is because once again, seniority is only "a major consideration" for promotional opportunities or transfers.

For anyone considering the cadetship, think very carefully before signing the dotted line.

This mob are the cancer of our "profession".:yuk:

Pretty soon we're going to have to pass the collection plate down the aisle in order to 'buy' a coffee before descending into a dark stormy airport.

Do pax really want their pilots stressing about how to meet their mortgage repayments while trying to carry out an instrument approach?...

Did Michael O'Leary secretly slip into Jetstar management while you guys were'nt looking :confused:

They continue to lead the race to the bottom, uncontested.:hmm:

Unfortunately this is a case of reap what you sow. Ultimately, the only beneficiaries will be those on bonuses. People can't claim they weren't told...

This may be a stupid question, but on what grounds would non Australian residents be allowed to work for Jetstar Australia? In Australia Im assuming?

If they hold Aussie or NZ passports or other suitable visa. Plenty of Jetstar Asia pilots are Aussies who might like to come home (yes, being pedantic about difference between residents and those with rights to residency).

UTR

It won't be non oz residents.
It will be oz pilots working in these countries that want to come home.
And Jetstar NZ pilots who want to come and work in OZ.
The maggot who runs this airline will stop at nothing until here completely destroys our profession (although we a good at that ourselves), until the Jetstar OZ pilots stand up and be heard and tell this prick that they will no longer take it up the arse, we are all screwed!

What a great industry....

LJS... I've been worrying about that for years!

Folks,
Last time I noticed, "pilots" were on the 457 visa list. We are not short of examples of 457 visa employees displacing Australian citizens in jobs. In particular, quite a few South African pilots have been coming in on 457 visa.
Tootle pip!!

It just gets better!! And the worst thing is that there will be those saying "Yes, pick me pick me!!I'm happy with your new contract, sign me up!!"

Will we ever learn??

b.

At the end of the day it will be the choice of the employee. If he is prepared to accept, be prepared for the bitching that will occur when they see you on a different scale.

Maybe the JPC need to wise up and seek some advice on behalf of their members, but unfortunately the group is so fragmented and disunited there is a snow flake in hell chance of it ever changing!

Mr.Buchanan has played a master stroke in industrial relations on a splintered group of individuals, welcome to the new frontier!

Maybe more Jetstar pilots should be looking towards AIPA... There is currently a very good proportion signed up, but I doubt AFAP will be of any use in trying to fight this.

Pilots are off the 457 list.......happened last year.....the whole thing was reviewed and they were taken off.

These jokers (Pornstar) and their cheapskate competitors all play on the fact that the majority of pilots WILL AT ANY COST take a sideways pineapple to fly their nice shiny jets.

A 3000 hour pilot says NO WAY, a 2000 hour pilot may say yes. No MAY about it... They clearly have no 'minimum' requirements (read Cadetship), or was it an apprenticeship, the pay certainly is fitting...

WHEN will we reach the bottom? :sad:

Ok I am a prospective pilot for jetstar (Australia),

however, what I would like to know is if anyone can put up the EBA so we can see the terms and conditions so that we know if we are jumping from the "frying pan into the fire" so to speak.

pm me if you need to send it, but i reccomend that you upload it via "rapid share".

thanks in advance!

I am confused. You guys are still covered by an EBA under the laws of the country aren't you? Those laws actually let you DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS rather than simply whingeing about it and capitulating?

Virgin started the rot with 'low cost' wages, but this mob really is leading the race to the bottom. An absolute disgrace. :yuk:

Thats exactly right. At a time when airlines have started re-hiring they have lowered the bar in regards to T&C's yet everyone still jumps at it. Don't blame airline management for playing you guys for a fool, they're just out there to increase their bonus's. They couldn't give a rats a$$ if you can't pay your mortgage or if you worked 10yrs to get there.
Who wants to pay for a rating.... Pick me :ugh:
Who would like to pay to join the cadet scheme then work for bugger all and possibly be bankrupt because i want to fly,but not a little cessna thingy... Pick me :ugh:
Who still wants to fly a jet, do the same job as all the pilots hired several months ahead of you but get paid a lot less... Pick me. :ugh:

Pilots will only work together to have a winge on PPrune. :D

Welcome to Europe.
Ryanair and Easyjet (Ryanair in particular) started this nonsense, I guess it was only a matter of time before it started to filter down under.
In the UK under normal circumstances there would be between 250-300 jobs per year for pilots, this is against a nominal figure of roughly 1200 pilots coming out of the sausage factories, so about 900 per year never made it, period. With these "new" schemes it gives these 900 wannabes a glimmer of hope of employment, and most will stop at nothing to sit in the right hand seat. I would imagine this scenario would hit Australia even harder than Europe purely because it is much more difficult to "get into the system" over there, thus making these people even more determined to undertake such "schemes".
The other problem, which is a problem we face over here is the fact that the very people who could make a stand are the pilots within, unfortunately, as with over here is that most of them are sat fat, dumb and happy in their job and this "cancer" doesn't affect them, so they are not willing to stand up against it.

Good luck chaps.

Leadsled,

You clearly either fly for either Qantaslink or Rex as you are having a little gripe about some little South Africans coming to take our Aussie citizen jobs. They came across more than 2 years ago if I'm not mistaken when the pilot shortage was rife in Australia because of the likes of Jetstar and VB sucking them dry of their pilot stocks.

Virgin and JS only hire pilots with Permanent Residence so therefore a 457 visa does not cut it with them, maybe you should have a look at the website sometime.

So maybe this is the only thing you have to whine about or you are completely behind the drag curve as to why it went down in that manner.

Thankfully airlines like Cathay and Emirates don't have the same mindset like you have so clearly displayed, otherwise us Aussies would never have the opportunity to fly for them as so many of us already do.

How many Australians are flying for JS?

......and how do you get North Korean citenzenship and type ratings for the IL-62 and TU-205?

Let me see if I've got this right, Jetstar offer 15 pilots employment on "C" scale T & C's then, when they have resigned their previous jobs, BB uses the skills he acquired at BCG and cancels their employment, offers them "E" scale conditions which they will probably accept because they are now out of a job, have a mortgage, wife & kids to feed etc. This then establishes the new ultra low standard of T & C's which all future applicants will be obliged to accept if they want employment.

It sucks big time but I recall all the existing J* pilots being warned about this at the time the airline was being started but "tall poppy syndrome", "pen1s envy" and many other psychological conditions got in the way of their comprehending the long term consequences of their actions. I personally communicated with the then leader of the JPC to warn him of the consequences but I encountered a brick wall. :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

The only action that can have any effect is for the J* pilots to join the same union in overwhelming numbers (AIPA is the obvious one because of their industrial capability) and then fight these changes using every legal means available.

Autobrakes4,

Impulse actually started the rot and then Impulse became Jetstar.

Karma........

Exactly right.
Impulse.... we will operate those A320 A/C on our current conditions etc... Oh you are getting A330... we can operate those for this much..... now all you have are others doing the same and whilst you have become bogged down by all the "factions there.
Dont blame the management for starting another "clean sheet"........... AKA V AUS.

I don't see any Jetstar pilots here whinging.

Is there a reason for that?

Yep Impulse started it back in the 1900 days. Back then you paid for your endorsement and had to buy a share in the crewing company whom you worked for and buying the share made you are shareholder and you were paid as a shareholder. No extra pay for overnights etc and when the captains asked for a payrise, they took it from the FO's pay, so any new FO's started on $6000 less than current FO's and the crewing company justified to the new FO's by sayng they would all have commands in 6 months!

like lil blueberry I'm waiting on a start date. This has thrown a spanner in the works as I'm already working for a great company. But what I don't understand is that at my current company nothing can get changed in our agreement unless all parties agree to it i.e. management and the pilots. So how can the current jet* oz pilot lose their conditions or why would they want to agree to lesser conditions for new recruits?

about 10 posts have been submitted since I submitted mine haha...

So the real issue here is that the majority of jet* pilots aren't part of a union. So whatever management says goes...?

Meanwhile the "architect" of this mess lives it up in NZ skiing. I hope the prick breaks his neck :yuk:

Locknut, to share what I know: contrary to what you said, the majority of pilots at Jetstar are in fact with AIPA.

The reason that little can be done is because there is no EBA negotiating period open at this time and so there is no option to take "protected industrial action" without being charged with offenses in relation to the industrial relations legislation.

Before anyone says that J* guys should simply "work to rule" if it can be determined that pilots are working to rule then they can be charged and if it cannot then the company would not know nor therefore care and you are simply left with a bunch of bitter and twisted pilots throwing on a bit too much fuel for Mum and the kids at the expense of the environment without the company being any the wiser.

I wish I could propose a solution that was in fact effective, but the only real solution is to vote with your feet, if your happy with your current job, stay there. If you get into J* don't be surprised to see a short Irish man running around the oval with a set of goal posts that he can no longer get to stand up straight.

There are many ways to make a leech company like Jetstar start to take their pilots seriously without taking industrial action. All in the name of safety. Why not decide collectively that you consider it safer to never accept intersection departures or to never land with a tailwind component. Use your imaginations.

The 08 EBA is set in concrete until it expires and therefore individual contracts (AWAs) offered to newly hired Oz pilots is illegal under the FWA. If management are trying to undercut local pilots by basing overseas pilots in Oz covered by another foreign contract then this is also illegal and the workplace ombudsman (as well as the media) would love to get a hold of this. This is got to be a wind up or ... On ya J*:ugh:

Well, what are you going to do about it?? (apart from whinge, that is? )

how bout the next time a complex MEL comes up refuse to take it, or a snag that perhaps might be able to be carried to next port, snag it. Or that FA who is carrying on being a bit crook, maybe you fail to talk her into continuing. Or when ATC offers you a high level you say no thanks and request a lower one. Get to work exactly on time and take you time to get the thing airborne. When OTP suffers and theyre not handing out the galaxies, maybe, just maybe someone will take notice.

Pilots have little public sympathy. The profession is still percieved to be underworked and overpaid.

Dodgy

It has got to that point for some individuals. However, if it is ever found to be an organised or collective effort it could easily be deemed to be illegal unprotected action.

If my kid ever told me he wanted to become a pilot, I'd nail his feet to the floor and move his food three inches out of his reach.

Flying turboprops looks better all the time!!

Any truth in the story that JQ pilots have been blackmailing Jetstar for extra money outside their EBA when asked if they would like to work on a day OFF??

Anyone viewed a letter supposedly addressed to their CEO by a disgruntled FO?? Anyone care to share a copy for wider comment??

Perhaps there are problems in both JQ pilot and management camps??

Regardless of who did what at JQ, the time has arrived to dust off the resume (especially First Officers).

Where was that information sourced from anyway? Is it a quote? Would like to see where it originated.