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My concurrence - bloody well said Wardog. He speaks the realities. I a huge global downturn, just be very thankful for a job. As Wardog said, the TT contract at least does offer some alternatives to being laid off. It is just a company protecting itself in a very uncertain time whilst still finding its feet in Oz.
Take the job or don't take the job - the decision is your and yours alone. If you can't make that decision then you are lacking one of the key skills of piloting - decision making. |
Spots and Strips...
I have spent sometime discussing terms and conditions over copious pints with some Tiger employees, and I have been left in no doubt that the contract at Tiger is not “similar” to Jetstar or Virgin.
For a start Tiger pilots are employed under a “bare bones” AWA (not sure what happens when the AWAs are abolished??) and Jetstar/ Virgin under EBAs, which results in big differences in many ways. Another fact is that since Tiger commenced operations 5 years ago, the pilots have not had a pay rise, and the AWAs/ Singapore contracts do not allow for CPI increase or any other cost increases. According to their CEO, a pay increase is not on the agenda for the next 5 year period. This has resulted in Tiger pilots being paid considerably less than other comparable carriers, while receiving almost none of the usual benefits. While it is normal for LCCs to have high staff turnover rates, it appears that Tiger has hit the alarm bell recently. While employment remained steady over the past 12 months, it is in reality just replacement, given that Tiger still only has 4 aircraft. I would suggest that if you miss out on all other carriers in Australia, then Tiger is a “bare bones” short term option… oh and don’t bitch about it. :} |
UNOME and AAF,
I don't disagree with you, in fact you both have very valid points, in particular UNOME. I do however feel that I may have poorly explained my position. I by no means believe that the TT contract is comparable in terms of benefits or returns when compared to the other carriers out there, and certainly not Virgin. By similar I was refering to the bottom line wage setup, I do acknowledge that Jetstar offers substancial benefits over Tiger. I was more so simply paying tribute to the fact that there isn't a lot of work out there, the pay is generally a very poor return for the investment laid out and TT is offering a step up for some people. Those people who make the choice to either accept or refuse the contract are making just that, their own choice. Others shouldn't take the high ground and judge because each person has their own reason for accepting such conditions. TT does not hide the fact that they are a LCC, infact they brag about the fact that they are one of, if not the cheapest in terms of overheads of all the LCCs. We all know LCC equals tight bottom line, this is reflected in everything including pilots pay and conditions. At the end of the day to believe they offer a fruitfull career is very narrow minded. To use them as a step in building quick hours and a rapid command more realistic. When the Middle East market is still growing, is the only place that still offers the benefits we all want, and asks for around 2000 Jet, TT is one of the best options out there right now. As for the turnover at TT, I agree, it is very high, and for those starting, it must be promising if you want a fast command. But like the man said, don't come bitching, your decision, your problem. |
Reality
Wardog
I believe that is a much more realistic view. Christmas drinks with some of the older Tiger blokes recently resulted in their head in hand, and not because of the hangover. While they remain very loyal to Tiger and believe in the potential it has, I note their deep frustration and concern with the direction of the company. It is no secret that selecting Adelaide as a base is considered by all in the industry (and the business sector) as a major mistake, especially for a LCC looking to tap into increasing traffic growth (ADL has the lowest of the top six), not business travel. That raises the issue of customer loyalty and return business however, Tiger does not have a loyalty reward system in place anyway. Tiger has already abandoned DRW and NTL therefore, if ADL doesn’t work it follows that it will also be abandoned. Apparently the next step after ADL is, well nothing. Australians are rather gun-shy of Airlines that look shakey… |
It is no secret that selecting Adelaide as a base is considered by all in the industry (and the business sector) as a major mistake, especially for a LCC looking to tap into increasing traffic growth (ADL has the lowest of the top six), not business travel. That raises the issue of customer loyalty and return business however, Tiger does not have a loyalty reward system in place anyway. Tiger has already abandoned DRW and NTL therefore, if ADL doesn’t work it follows that it will also be abandoned. Brisbane Tiger, Brisbane. |
Not to mention the huge costs of setting up these "hubs" every few years |
Lots of talk of high turnover at TT. Cabin crew -YES. Pilots - 6 in 13 months, you be the judge of whether that is high. I don'e see huge alarm bells there.
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So it's ok to go around Excepting a job with low pay and conditions just to get your first job, first twin job, first turbo prop, first two crew job and now first Jet job and Airline job.......
You can use the excuse of building hours as much as you like but it's the the above atitiude that has lead to the poor pay and conditions that Tiger has now got. When will it end??? The day when there is nothing at the top is coming soon.... but I suppose you will still be flying that shiny jet and still hoping things will get better.... Time to draw a line in the sand and demand better conditions.... especially now there is a pilot shortage...* what??? the pilot shortage is over????* hmmmm lucky our industry cashed in on this shortage whilst it lasted and secured better T's and C's before a downward economic cycle turned up.... woops. At least these glorified bus drivers did.... NSW bus drivers accept 8pc pay rise - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) |
Rodney, If you have four or five hundred pilots, six is peanuts. You have fourty or fifty drivers and you have a problem
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It's a perception..
Actually I was relating to what I was told regarding management departures, although I believe there has been high number of Check and training guys move on also.
I understand that during the past 10 months only the following have left:
This is a very lean outfit with less than 150 total employees, so yep, I would say the alarm bell is ringing rather loud, and maybe the last one to leave would be kind enough to turn out the lights. After all it is low cost and you don’t want to waste money! :confused: |
The Managing Director |
We're on the road to nowhere...
Sunstar 320
(I had given up on Prrune but my new Global Blackberry makes prruning a breeze…) :ok: Not sure what happened to the MD, but I believe he was responsible for the ADL decision and didn’t top the popularity list. Rodney Rude seems very passionate about Tiger, maybe he/ she can confirm the factuality of the departures and give us an idea about the real game plan? I don’t think there is any bitterness as raised by Wardog, in fact I have to be honest, I have good mates in Tiger and would prefer to see it grow however, one can’t go trudging through the unprofitable, muddy goat tracks left by previous failed operators and hope to succeed. The established and very profitable paved roads have plenty of room left, you just need some more aircraft, in fact lot’s more, in order to have a go. As Sunstar said what about MEL- BNE, and then BNE-CNS, TSV, DRW, PER, BROOME, ASP, ADL, etc… Is it lack of terminal space that closed this obvious option? What is the deal with SYD? Maybe the obvious thing lost on Tiger management is the requirement for the "early flight out and late flight return" to/ from the big cities. Two earlies (6am/ 7am) and two lates are all you need to start the ball rolling. I remember the CEO crowing about not doing the "BNE-SYD-MEL golden triangle" and going where no man has gone before...but surely 180 seat A320s need both a large population and increasing traffic growth in order to make money? Is ADL-HBA-MEL really the new "golden triangle"or just a map of Tassie?? :bored: |
UNOME Hi
In relation to Brisbane i have asked this question many a time.When Tiger was in the planning stages they had a public vote for where pax wish to go and BNE won this yet the base went to MEL and no flights went to BNE. I believe the lack of Tiger having their own terminal is why BNE do not have any flights, however i do notice that the common user terminal will be extended into a full circle with work starting within next 2 monthes and this will give 7 gates at the satellite and 2 at the main terminal which will allow 9 aircraft to be parked.Mayby this will be enough to entice them. Let's hope Tiger can fly to Brisbane soon. Cheers |
Tiger Korea is officially not going ahead
Tiger shelves joint-venture |
Tiger A319
Just saw a pic of Tigers A319 on Airliners.net, does anyone know the delivery date of this aircraft and where it will be based?
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Tiger Airways Takes Delivery of 1st A319
Tiger Airways' brand new A319 arrived in Singapore last night at 2030.
144 seat Airbus A319 aircraft provide Tiger Airways the flexibility to take advantage of opportunities created from ASEAN liberalisation The A319's lower cost will allow the airline to develop new routes without the need to fill larger aircraft. (Singapore, January 19, 2009) -- Tiger Airways' first A 319 aircraft has arrived at its Singapore base last night straight from the Hamburg factory. Rosalynn Tay, managing director of Tiger Airways Singapore said "I am so excited about growing our fleet. With more planes we are able to have even more low low fares for travellers. The best thing about this plane is that it is 98% the same as our A320s but with less seats and a lower operating cost. This is the perfect aircraft for route development and ensures that the airline is in the right position to exploit new opportunities as they are presented." The A319 has been successfully operated with low fare airlines across the world with significant fleets in service with airlines such as Easyjet and Spirit in the US. Rosalynn Tay said "the A319 is a proven low fare aircraft type. With these additional aircraft we have the opportunity to aggressively expand our paw print to more destinations with our famous low low fares." Source : Tiger Airways |
They were going to base a couple of them in Adelaide as from the 1st March to service the new routes to Alice Springs and Hobart. Anyone know if this is still the case?
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I can't recall where I saw it but I believe that ADL is getting two A320s from Singapore instead of the A319s, which will be used in Asia.
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MORE than 30 additional jobs will be created as Tiger Airways' new Airbus A320 kicks off its Adelaide operations from March 1. The low-cost airline's two Airbus A320 aircrafts, which will be based in Adelaide, will fly to six destinations - Canberra, Hobart, Gold Coast, Alice Springs, Perth and Melbourne. Besides the airline's recruitment of 40 cabin crew and 12 pilots, additional jobs are being created in the ground handling and overnight maintenance services area. Ground-handling services provider Aero-Care Pty Ltd is hiring 30 more staff while overnight maintenance services company John Holland Aviation Services will create up to five new jobs, Tiger Airways said. A John Holland spokesperson said the company will look to expand this team alongside the expansion of Tiger Airways' services and other business opportunities within the South Australian market. South Australia is going to benefit from the price revolution, which has already saved $60 million for customers since Tiger was launched in 2007, Tiger Airways managing director Shelley Roberts said. "Australia has never seen the fares we are talking about,'' Ms Roberts said. Tiger's entry will ease the pain of rival Jetstar closing its base here last year, especially with more aircraft likely to be added in Adelaide over the coming years based on demand. It is widely believed the choice of Adelaide as a second base was partly due to a deal struck with Adelaide Airport Ltd and a $2 million carrot from the State Government, but Ms Roberts said customer support and demand were the main attractions to setting up a base here. "The decision was based on the market for our services,'' she added. In fact, a decision to upgrade from a 144-seat Airbus A319 to new 177-seat Airbus A320s was prompted by the perceived demand for low-cost services in Adelaide:rolleyes:. Tiger's plans come as rival budget carrier Virgin Blue's announced up to 400 job cuts from its Australian workforce and ground five aircraft due to declining demand. Qantas also said it was scaling back operations and cancelling some international flight routes. However Ms Roberts - who will address the Deloitte Women of Influence luncheon organised by the American Chamber of Commerce SA at the Hyatt Regency on Friday - said the airline was actively exploring a number of opportunities to bring in more point-to-point services. Link to news.com.au |
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