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-   -   Merged: Jetstar EBA 4 (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/311095-merged-jetstar-eba-4-a.html)

Jet Jockey 1st Feb 2008 01:13

Could be in the vicinity of 20% sacrifice to base salary just for this year alone. Pretty big gamble this time round considering the majority of the J* troops have excepted little more then 3% in last 2 EBA,s and now the company is under no obligation to talk till 2nd half of the year.

I have voted previous EBA,s down when the majority thought they were acceptable. This EBA has offered more than anything previously and am shocked that it didn't get up. The JPA have negoiated hard in good faith. As JPA members have stated the market ultimately set the standard. J* has had virtually no pilot's leave, Tiger has entered the market with worst pay and conditions and crewing planes no problem. No shortage of applicants for J* positions.
Still a lot of Ex Ansett types overseas just starting to get their various grat payments and contracts coming up for renewal with mortgage free homes back in oz wanting to come back.
Further delays of 787 and greater than 50% chance of market slow down worldwide in next 18months.

One big bluff and from what I can see company holding all the Aces.

DutchRoll 1st Feb 2008 02:28

Originally Posted by Jet Jockey
One big bluff and from what I can see company holding all the Aces.

Well, you're definitely not living on the same planet I'm living on, having been told of numerous occasions involving J* flight cancellations due lack of crew. Also, maybe you'd like to enlighten us on the minimum experience J* have been accepting for both application, and command? Likewise with Tiger?

There are not many airlines holding aces at the moment. I hope you don't play poker. Getting you to fold appears pretty easy.

spabath 1st Feb 2008 03:29

Minimum Pay
$169,000 for 816 hours per year, then $207 per hour there after.
12 days off in 28 day roster
$1000 min to work a day off
$2500 for loss of licence

This is the minimum pay offer we should accept as per Virgin & Tiger which earns more than us.

TurbTool 1st Feb 2008 03:36

Well, you're definitely not living on the same planet I'm living on, having been told of numerous occasions involving J* flight cancellations due lack of crew.
Maybe you live on a different planet to the rest of us. My sources tell me that no flights at J* have been cancelled as a result of lack of tech crew. Certainly some flights have been cancelled due wx disruptions and an inability to launch with standby crew due to curfew requirements. "Flights being cancelled" is merely propoganda being spread by the "pilot shortage" brigade, more wishfull thinking than fact.

It will be interesting to see which party plays better poker later this year.

I'm Driving 1st Feb 2008 04:10

Hey Tool.

Why are QF 737 operating services on Wet lease to Jetstar?

HIGH n MIGHTY 1st Feb 2008 04:58

Good job on the No vote fellas...

Oh, as for the previous remarks, I have flown scheduled Jetstar services in the 737 for 2 days since Xmas, carrying Jetstar passengers to Jetstar destinations using Jetstar callsigns. Nothing unusual about the operation as they were to "leisure" destinations that dont clash with Qf (Hobart, Cooly, Cairns) :ugh: When queried why was told "lack of staff and equipment"

However, the disturbing thing is that they were on my roster the whole month, rather than a late change of plan.

Stick with it, good to see the Eba knockback..:D

drshmoo 1st Feb 2008 07:11

There is a lot of negative crap on here. The industry thanks all of you who voted no. Yep you've stirred up the hornets nest and the company will throw the shadow of uncertainty. This is the start of J* pilots clawing back lost ground. Well done.

No pilot shortage - hahahhahahhaha. Look at the amount of airframes purchased world wide. US in trouble financially maybe, the flow on won't be catastrophic to the world economies and the airframes have been purchased all over the world. The world needs sh!t loads of pilots.

Good on J* pilots - keep the good fight - you are worth no less than what virgin got and that needs to look at pay vs time at work etc.
J* pilots:ok:

fistfokker 1st Feb 2008 08:04

Hey Tool.

Why are QF 737 operating services on Wet lease to Jetstar?
I can answer that one. It is because the 3 A320 aircraft that were scheduled to be in service for the Christmas rush were delayed for reasons beyond J*'s control. So as High n Mighty said "lack of equipment" not tech crew is the answer.

I have got to say I never cease to be amazed when pilots (who know absolutely everything about running an airline) constantly quote "crew shortage" yet managemant (who know nothing about running an airline) disagree but said airline continues to operate. Safely, profitably, continually.

Why is that?

Mr. Hat 1st Feb 2008 09:18

Yoiu should be aiming above the T and C's at VB, people. There is never going to be a better time than now.

bigles 1st Feb 2008 10:00

Message To Joyce,westaway &co
Previous Expierence Tells Me That When Your Staff Moral Drops So Do Your Profits,costs Escalate, Delays Increase Aircraft Suddenly Require More Maintenance.don't Waste Any Human Capital You May Have, Show Some Leadership, After All You Are Going To Be Attacked From The Bottom By Tiger And Lion Air,possibly Asia X,you Are Going To Need All The Cooperation You Can Get To Keep Jetstar Viable.a Look At The Previous Sucessful Leaders In This Industry Might Give You A Clue

Me,long Since Retired

Mat Finish 1st Feb 2008 20:08

'$2500 loss of licence'

Is that not $250,000?

$2500 is surely a typo? What can you do with that? even $250,000 is not much for loss of a career.

Mat Finish
never a shiny moment..:suspect:

genex 1st Feb 2008 20:27

It is so good to see just exactly how many people from such disparite backgrounds, not to mention all of AIPA, are putting their hopes for a good future (not to mention world peace, end to poverty and AIDS etc) on the Jetstar pilot body. What a vote of confidence in those pilots that the entire future of Australia piloting rests on their intestinal fortitude. I am moved to quote Churchill: "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few".

Since the JQ pilots will now be significantly underpaid for probably a year (much more if there's any downturn in the next year), would some of those cheering from the sidelines kick in with a levy to top up the salaries of the "Few"?

$500 a month from each Qantas pilot toward the JQ salary bill would really be a show of solidarity. Any takers? It doesn't affect me but I would,as an act of solidarity, kick in my share if AIPA starts a fund and publishes the bank a/c details.

missing link 1st Feb 2008 22:30

Hey Genex, ever looked at the pay of the Dash drivers? If you're going to chip in - I think they could use some as well............ F/O's mid 40's
Capt's low 80"s F/A's low 30's........Work just as hard if not harder than mainline - Don't make the same mistake you made with the Jetstar guys:=

adam210 2nd Feb 2008 01:00

$2500 is about right as an annual premium for $500,000 coverage of loss of licence insurance. if under 30 yo, your premium is around $1200

toolish 2nd Feb 2008 06:05

I voted NO and I knew and was willing to take the 15k hit this year.
I do not expect anyone to subsidise my wage, IT IS MY CHOICE.
I have done my part but not expect me to take anymore financial hits unless the rest of the industry will.

Capt Basil Brush 2nd Feb 2008 06:56

The question that needs to be answered by the people so in favour of voting YES, is;

"why did J* want to lock in this deal for 5 years, nearly 1 year before its due?"

I am interested in hearing some answers to this one.

(Chimbu, how did you come up with the 210 - 220K figure for an A320 Capt? I heard it was a base of 145K plus extras. 65 - 75K of "extras" per year??)

blow.n.gasket 2nd Feb 2008 07:14

I thought the JetStar F/O's would be mighty relieved with the result, No South African Instant captains coming to take your upgrade away.
They now have to be employed under the present Terms, wonder how many will take the move now?

VH-JJW 2nd Feb 2008 12:18

Wrong - Now the South African Dec's will be recruited onto AWA's, most likely on the proposed EBA 4 conditions.

Jetstar management made it abundantly clear, they proposed the new EBA as a result of pilot discontent over AWA's. Now that they have been told by the pilots to to F&*k off, there is no stopping the AWA's, unless of course the government changes its mind.

VH-JJW 2nd Feb 2008 12:26

AFAP you must be joking
Obviously the AFAP severely misread the Jetstar vote outcome.

After the recent result I understand that they intend on writing to Jetstar management offerring to renegotiate EBA 4.

Only problem is;

There is NO bargaining period
The present EBA runs until August
Management stated they will not renegotiate until later this year
Management intend on keeping their word.
AIPA - what role should they have?


There is no way I can see management returning to the table until they have to. So stop creating false hope Lawrie Cox & co.

In the mean time - stop jerking around and get with AIPA, JPA etc and put an end to the turf wars which are enveloping the Jetstar pilot group.

DutchRoll 2nd Feb 2008 22:14

Originally Posted by TurbTool
"Flights being cancelled" is merely propoganda being spread by the "pilot shortage" brigade, more wishfull thinking than fact.

I take it then, that you are implying that there is a plentiful supply of pilots everywhere. No shortage of recruits. No reduction in experience requirements to keep the flow up.

OK, I completely retract the "another planet" statement, and change it to "another parallel universe where reality runs backwards".

And there is of course no "propaganda" being spread by JQ or QF Management, who are all fine upstanding honest citizens when it comes to making statements about their Company's performance, aren't they?;)

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