Vb Wants Ya Baby!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
15000 hrs +. Mostly turbo props. C & T Brasilia. 15 years service is not enough to get you an FOs slot on the F100 at Alliance!! Yet!!
But there are still people waiting in the queue. Mainly AN types with **** loads of experience who have been blackballed and hate the VJ.
If VJ are going to apply their cabin cew approach to the flight deck then they are goners.
Doing orbits into Darwin because they f* cked up their profile at 1 in the morning means nothing to Jo public. Bending a shiny new Boooinngg will. Over running the runway and having it covered up helps. Having alpha floors save your arse does as well.
I just feel sorry for the good ol'boys at VJ if they are forced to put up with this plastic blonde pilot ****.
We are happy little virginites,
As happy as can be.
We press the buttons,look quite good
But what the hell is VNE.
Good luck boys.
But there are still people waiting in the queue. Mainly AN types with **** loads of experience who have been blackballed and hate the VJ.
If VJ are going to apply their cabin cew approach to the flight deck then they are goners.
Doing orbits into Darwin because they f* cked up their profile at 1 in the morning means nothing to Jo public. Bending a shiny new Boooinngg will. Over running the runway and having it covered up helps. Having alpha floors save your arse does as well.
I just feel sorry for the good ol'boys at VJ if they are forced to put up with this plastic blonde pilot ****.
We are happy little virginites,
As happy as can be.
We press the buttons,look quite good
But what the hell is VNE.
Good luck boys.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I really can’t believe this…a few hours ago Woomera told us that we can’t go on too much about 198* for a lot of reasons that I sort of understand. Fair enough. Not my bulletin board and I am sure that anyone wanting to know the truth about 198* can find out without some of us making undisciplined posts here for all to see. So we accept some limitations.
I recall that as I approached Christmas in that year I was unemployed, nearing 40 with a good assortment of young children feeling the weight on my shoulders of the decision I had made to stick with the secret vote I had cast (and my friends). This year, after a lot of hard yards, a lot of time on the ground, the kids are older, the bride still loves me and I fly the best Boeing ever made by far. So the 13 years have been good, all in all.
But this anti-female, anti-low hour pilot stuff bugs me. A lot. I was lucky enough to score my single stripe as an F27 F/O at under 20 and under 500 hours. That was then. And without a strong, democratic pilots organization behind me I would never, ever, ever have got a command many years later. I would never have had “the right stuff”.
If a fast growing airline like Virgin chooses to hire a mix of people, old, young, blonde, otherwise etc and not necessarily include everyone who, by their own admission should be hired, then so what? If Branson and JR had never started up the show there’d be no jobs at all and you’d all be sweating blood on the democratic, transparent and unbiased QF recruiting system!
As a result of 198* I have spent much of the last 13 years flogging around Europe and Asia with F/Os probably much less suited to the job than the young lady in question. She will earn her next stripes in an environment much less cosseted than that at QF and will, I’ll bet, be a bl**dy good captain in a few years. Our first ever woman jet pilot has been an asset to KLM for years now and yet she wasn’t good enough for the post 198* Ansett. Well I guess time has shown whose recruiting practices were best. And Virgin has simply followed on and chosen who it wants rather than those who, as in 198*, felt that the world owed them a job.
Good luck to you Miss F/O who ever you are. I’m sorry Woomera if this has upset things. But in my little world all pilots get a fair go even if they’re young and less masculine than some.
Elektra.
I recall that as I approached Christmas in that year I was unemployed, nearing 40 with a good assortment of young children feeling the weight on my shoulders of the decision I had made to stick with the secret vote I had cast (and my friends). This year, after a lot of hard yards, a lot of time on the ground, the kids are older, the bride still loves me and I fly the best Boeing ever made by far. So the 13 years have been good, all in all.
But this anti-female, anti-low hour pilot stuff bugs me. A lot. I was lucky enough to score my single stripe as an F27 F/O at under 20 and under 500 hours. That was then. And without a strong, democratic pilots organization behind me I would never, ever, ever have got a command many years later. I would never have had “the right stuff”.
If a fast growing airline like Virgin chooses to hire a mix of people, old, young, blonde, otherwise etc and not necessarily include everyone who, by their own admission should be hired, then so what? If Branson and JR had never started up the show there’d be no jobs at all and you’d all be sweating blood on the democratic, transparent and unbiased QF recruiting system!
As a result of 198* I have spent much of the last 13 years flogging around Europe and Asia with F/Os probably much less suited to the job than the young lady in question. She will earn her next stripes in an environment much less cosseted than that at QF and will, I’ll bet, be a bl**dy good captain in a few years. Our first ever woman jet pilot has been an asset to KLM for years now and yet she wasn’t good enough for the post 198* Ansett. Well I guess time has shown whose recruiting practices were best. And Virgin has simply followed on and chosen who it wants rather than those who, as in 198*, felt that the world owed them a job.
Good luck to you Miss F/O who ever you are. I’m sorry Woomera if this has upset things. But in my little world all pilots get a fair go even if they’re young and less masculine than some.
Elektra.
Elecktra
Fair points. But the concerns are...
Virgin blue is leaking like a sieve. We have all heard the stories of the endorsement program and the relaxed nature of C&T.
Great. But 1203 hours is real skinny and a real risk if the recruitment norm.
Forget the 89 aspects but this is the cleaverest and most surreptitious management means of keeping pilot conditions down that I have witnessed. Think about it. JR is a pilot market genius and well deserving of any management bonuses that come his way.
Karunch.
Thanks for the lend of the WRX but didn't get ya Porsche to cruise Mid Levels last month!
EP
Most people i flew with had those hours at 21. Just so happens most didn't see 737 equipment until 23-26, 3-4000 hrs and regional command experience and / or a bit of map folding under their belt; aswell as a comprehensive 737 endorsement !
Good luck to all, honestly, my only concern the lack of Virgin investment in training if 1200 hours the benchmark.
Fair points. But the concerns are...
Virgin blue is leaking like a sieve. We have all heard the stories of the endorsement program and the relaxed nature of C&T.
Great. But 1203 hours is real skinny and a real risk if the recruitment norm.
Forget the 89 aspects but this is the cleaverest and most surreptitious management means of keeping pilot conditions down that I have witnessed. Think about it. JR is a pilot market genius and well deserving of any management bonuses that come his way.
Karunch.
Thanks for the lend of the WRX but didn't get ya Porsche to cruise Mid Levels last month!
EP
Most people i flew with had those hours at 21. Just so happens most didn't see 737 equipment until 23-26, 3-4000 hrs and regional command experience and / or a bit of map folding under their belt; aswell as a comprehensive 737 endorsement !
Good luck to all, honestly, my only concern the lack of Virgin investment in training if 1200 hours the benchmark.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qduck - "I just feel sorry for the good ol'boys at VJ if they are forced to put up with this plastic blonde pilot ****."
Qduck you are truly pathetic.
Remember reading an article in a newspaper a few years back about Continental's first all-female flight crew. Although not a fan of RB's tacky style of advertising , if he should chose to advertise the fact that DJ have the youngest female Captains in Australia, it will send a positive message to women everywhere that there are opportunities for women in aviation, not just as cabin crew.
Oh dear....perhaps the 'boys' at the 'boys club' are feeling a bit threatened.
Qduck you are truly pathetic.
Remember reading an article in a newspaper a few years back about Continental's first all-female flight crew. Although not a fan of RB's tacky style of advertising , if he should chose to advertise the fact that DJ have the youngest female Captains in Australia, it will send a positive message to women everywhere that there are opportunities for women in aviation, not just as cabin crew.
Oh dear....perhaps the 'boys' at the 'boys club' are feeling a bit threatened.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In my cave
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EP,
With reference to Farknels comment about the father/daughter age thing and DJ's well known "it's not what you know but who you know" recruitment methods.
Are they the daughters of DJ pilots/managment, or just two very fortunate young pilots(to get the interview with their low experience/age) who have passed all interview/recruitment requirements?
Some clarification on their backgrounds may make people less cynical regarding their recruitment and DJ's supposed PR plans.
Congrats to the young pilots concerned.
With reference to Farknels comment about the father/daughter age thing and DJ's well known "it's not what you know but who you know" recruitment methods.
Are they the daughters of DJ pilots/managment, or just two very fortunate young pilots(to get the interview with their low experience/age) who have passed all interview/recruitment requirements?
Some clarification on their backgrounds may make people less cynical regarding their recruitment and DJ's supposed PR plans.
Congrats to the young pilots concerned.
Last edited by CaptCaveman; 16th Dec 2002 at 21:51.
Bottums Up
Qduck,
Perhaps Virgin's AOC should be revoked because some one stuffed up a descent? Who cares? We all stuff it up at some time, I know I've watched Ansett do the same, and having cought the cabin, done it myself.
In what walk of life does 'knowing' someone not have some bearing?
Perhaps Virgin's AOC should be revoked because some one stuffed up a descent? Who cares? We all stuff it up at some time, I know I've watched Ansett do the same, and having cought the cabin, done it myself.
In what walk of life does 'knowing' someone not have some bearing?
Some of you are amazing.
You get an airline that is prepared to hire across the entire spectrum of experience and you whinge!
The NORM as some put it - isn't 1200 hr girlies. The norm is that there is no norm!!
The recruits joining DJ are from a wide cross section of experience.
When AN fell over last year many many experienced turboprop and jet guys/gals got a start. In amongst that lot were people with heaps of medium/heavy jet hours, and people with nothing but light piston twin time.
Since then the mix has remained about the same - the only thing that changes is the ratio...
what would you all prefer. DJ hires all inexperienced people as F/O's and kept them there forever - hiring direct entry foreigners to fill the command vacancies - or hire a mix of people - some that can be promoted reasonably quickly and some that will need a number of years as F/O's to gain the exposure.
There are plenty of 1200 hours pilots out there that could fly rings around some of the more experienced people - I fly with some people that have heaps of hours and quite frankly they couldn't fly a magic carpet - you fly with others with significantly less experience and they are excellent.
It isn't the number of hours it is the person....
And at the end of the day if you don't like it don't apply
You get an airline that is prepared to hire across the entire spectrum of experience and you whinge!
The NORM as some put it - isn't 1200 hr girlies. The norm is that there is no norm!!
The recruits joining DJ are from a wide cross section of experience.
When AN fell over last year many many experienced turboprop and jet guys/gals got a start. In amongst that lot were people with heaps of medium/heavy jet hours, and people with nothing but light piston twin time.
Since then the mix has remained about the same - the only thing that changes is the ratio...
what would you all prefer. DJ hires all inexperienced people as F/O's and kept them there forever - hiring direct entry foreigners to fill the command vacancies - or hire a mix of people - some that can be promoted reasonably quickly and some that will need a number of years as F/O's to gain the exposure.
There are plenty of 1200 hours pilots out there that could fly rings around some of the more experienced people - I fly with some people that have heaps of hours and quite frankly they couldn't fly a magic carpet - you fly with others with significantly less experience and they are excellent.
It isn't the number of hours it is the person....
And at the end of the day if you don't like it don't apply
Devil
I would suggest all latest generation airliners are "magic carpets". Superb autopilots and flight controls.
"Fly rings around more experienced..." you make it sound like an aerobatic routine.
In light of the above it may just be the management of the show that is critical in todays airline flying. Drawing on you and your crewmembers experience to ensure the safe and efficient operation of the airliner, whatever untoward situation may present.
I am glad you have clarified the recruitment norm.
What does worry me though, in a rapidly expanding airline without all the training/safety systems in place and the possibility of an overburdened flight department, is how liberally some of the Virgin Blue Young Turks dismiss the value of experience.
Agree, a small percentage of very experienced pilots still dopes.
I would suggest all latest generation airliners are "magic carpets". Superb autopilots and flight controls.
"Fly rings around more experienced..." you make it sound like an aerobatic routine.
In light of the above it may just be the management of the show that is critical in todays airline flying. Drawing on you and your crewmembers experience to ensure the safe and efficient operation of the airliner, whatever untoward situation may present.
I am glad you have clarified the recruitment norm.
What does worry me though, in a rapidly expanding airline without all the training/safety systems in place and the possibility of an overburdened flight department, is how liberally some of the Virgin Blue Young Turks dismiss the value of experience.
Agree, a small percentage of very experienced pilots still dopes.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The nearest white sandy beach
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is the problem?
Is it because she's female? Young? Or was it because she hasn't "done her time in eighty-nine"?
For *****'s sake lads, wake up to yourselves. It's bloody brilliant to see some fresh blood coming into the airlines without prior prejudice or opinion.
EP I wish your two friends all the best, and I am sure they have a most enjoyable career ahead of them.
SG
Is it because she's female? Young? Or was it because she hasn't "done her time in eighty-nine"?
For *****'s sake lads, wake up to yourselves. It's bloody brilliant to see some fresh blood coming into the airlines without prior prejudice or opinion.
EP I wish your two friends all the best, and I am sure they have a most enjoyable career ahead of them.
SG
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sydgirl the problem is there IS NO PROBLEM! It's just some of these vacuous morons (and I think vacuous is doing them justice) have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. This anal retentive mentality is all too evident in Oz. All around the world there are pilots with much less experinece than these two girls getting airline jobs. I spent years in Europe training 250 hours sprogs and whislt they are no where near the level of competence of some of the more experienced pilots to start with, they do come good very quickly.
I really do feel very sorry for some of the people who contribute bitter and twisted comments evident on this thread. If we could harness all that negative energy and convert it into something positive what a wonderful place it would be.
Unfortunately here in Oz, that would be far too much like common sense. Just watch al the "well go back to Europe" comments. I rest my case!
I really do feel very sorry for some of the people who contribute bitter and twisted comments evident on this thread. If we could harness all that negative energy and convert it into something positive what a wonderful place it would be.
Unfortunately here in Oz, that would be far too much like common sense. Just watch al the "well go back to Europe" comments. I rest my case!
sperm bank
Big statements. Will take your word for it but many people I have spoken to feel differently.
One thing for certain, what you are getting paid now at VB is probably what you will be getting paid in 10 years time, if Mr Corrigan discovers 250hr pilots meet your grade.
Market forces, supply and demand and there is no dearth of 250hr pilots around the place!
When a terrible accident is caused by inexperienced pilots, for example some Middle Eastern and Asian carriers. The reaction is to place strict experience requirements on commands/newjoiners etc. This has happend and preserved the pay of pilots in some parts of the world, despite the Sept 11 downturn.
Experience requirments are good, you don't want to be too easily replacable Sprem Bank, as your back pocket affected!
Syd Girl
Most aren't taking issue with affirmitive action policies, we all know deep down females have the perfect temperament and management disposition for the flight deck, more a crack at the experience levels.
Big statements. Will take your word for it but many people I have spoken to feel differently.
One thing for certain, what you are getting paid now at VB is probably what you will be getting paid in 10 years time, if Mr Corrigan discovers 250hr pilots meet your grade.
Market forces, supply and demand and there is no dearth of 250hr pilots around the place!
When a terrible accident is caused by inexperienced pilots, for example some Middle Eastern and Asian carriers. The reaction is to place strict experience requirements on commands/newjoiners etc. This has happend and preserved the pay of pilots in some parts of the world, despite the Sept 11 downturn.
Experience requirments are good, you don't want to be too easily replacable Sprem Bank, as your back pocket affected!
Syd Girl
Most aren't taking issue with affirmitive action policies, we all know deep down females have the perfect temperament and management disposition for the flight deck, more a crack at the experience levels.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh god!!!!please don't get into the experience v no experience argument, it is unwinnable, those with it reckon it's a great asset, those without it reckon you don't need it.
I am led to believe that the hiring of people of limited experience by VB is not a publicity stunt, but in anticipation of them spending a while ( 3-5 years ) in the RHS.
At the present ( as a general rule ) only people with previous jet experience are getting commands in under a year ( much under ! ) and people with T/Prop experience in around a year ( Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, so don't bother with the tirade ).
Virgin don't wan't a heap of 10000hr + guys stuck in the RHS when the expansion eventually slows down.
Anybody who has been involved in C&T in both Europe and Oz would not be comparing the 250hr specials with the general level of competence of an FO in Oz. There are very few pilots who can go into something like a 737 from GA and be an ace straight away ( be they 1200 hours or 4000 ), although there are quite a few that think they are
I am led to believe that the hiring of people of limited experience by VB is not a publicity stunt, but in anticipation of them spending a while ( 3-5 years ) in the RHS.
At the present ( as a general rule ) only people with previous jet experience are getting commands in under a year ( much under ! ) and people with T/Prop experience in around a year ( Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, so don't bother with the tirade ).
Virgin don't wan't a heap of 10000hr + guys stuck in the RHS when the expansion eventually slows down.
Anybody who has been involved in C&T in both Europe and Oz would not be comparing the 250hr specials with the general level of competence of an FO in Oz. There are very few pilots who can go into something like a 737 from GA and be an ace straight away ( be they 1200 hours or 4000 ), although there are quite a few that think they are
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Next door
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What does Fonzie say?.. Be Cool!!
Geez kids, I only wished to pass on some positive news before
Xmas, not seethe the sebaceous masses!!
In reply to questions asked:
She indeed has an affluent, grinning, hirsute, limey pushing all the right buttons. (Its three recommendations req'd, right? or just one big one!)
She has Biz Jet experience. (As they say in PNG, "worry belong you.")
During the interview she was asked how she would handle being a Captain inside of 12 months AND how she would handle, say a grumpy 12,000hr jet jock F/O.
Please allow ME to answer; Grumpy chump and every other hetro jock will be to busy wiping the bovine dribble off their chinny chin chins after they hear, see and breathe in the blonde little Miss UK!!,(to even notice that she can indeed cut it.)
BTW, I think you will discover a young fellow with under 3000hrs total doing his upgrade as we deliberate. So why all the rococo??
To: 'Drachm of port', EVERY normal, well balanced, suitable applicant deserves at least an interview. J.R. has some issues, however I believe a change is in the wind. Sincerely, good luck.
Oh and 'One ball' (Damn! I feel for ya mate); Man don't you wish you could have been there when she said that? Cute? I was so glad I was in my mates pool, so nobody knew how hard I laughed!! Remember, you were once a no hour sprog before and achieved a good job, so will you again.
Merry Chrissy kids.
Xmas, not seethe the sebaceous masses!!
In reply to questions asked:
She indeed has an affluent, grinning, hirsute, limey pushing all the right buttons. (Its three recommendations req'd, right? or just one big one!)
She has Biz Jet experience. (As they say in PNG, "worry belong you.")
During the interview she was asked how she would handle being a Captain inside of 12 months AND how she would handle, say a grumpy 12,000hr jet jock F/O.
Please allow ME to answer; Grumpy chump and every other hetro jock will be to busy wiping the bovine dribble off their chinny chin chins after they hear, see and breathe in the blonde little Miss UK!!,(to even notice that she can indeed cut it.)
BTW, I think you will discover a young fellow with under 3000hrs total doing his upgrade as we deliberate. So why all the rococo??
To: 'Drachm of port', EVERY normal, well balanced, suitable applicant deserves at least an interview. J.R. has some issues, however I believe a change is in the wind. Sincerely, good luck.
Oh and 'One ball' (Damn! I feel for ya mate); Man don't you wish you could have been there when she said that? Cute? I was so glad I was in my mates pool, so nobody knew how hard I laughed!! Remember, you were once a no hour sprog before and achieved a good job, so will you again.
Merry Chrissy kids.
Last edited by E.P.; 20th Dec 2002 at 23:48.
Geez, what am I doing working towards VB's min requirements, they aren't even needed by the looks of it! 
EP,
I don't doubt she will be able to do the job, but surely you can understand people getting a little narky when pilots who actually meet the requirements aren't even given a chance to prove themselves in an interview.
But hopefully, as you suggest, that will change.
EP,
I don't doubt she will be able to do the job, but surely you can understand people getting a little narky when pilots who actually meet the requirements aren't even given a chance to prove themselves in an interview.
But hopefully, as you suggest, that will change.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a betting man EP, but will make an exception.
20:1 she don't get a command within 2 years.
A few low time guys going for them, but not necessarily getting 'em, I can assure you they are not giving 3000 hour guys a go because of the abundance of 12000 hour guys
20:1 she don't get a command within 2 years.
A few low time guys going for them, but not necessarily getting 'em, I can assure you they are not giving 3000 hour guys a go because of the abundance of 12000 hour guys
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Next door
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're on my swarthy friend.
A 1.5Lt bottle of Finlander Vodka, shaken not stirred.
........and please check the current Sim. program for an ex-sunnies fella doing his upgrade.
A 1.5Lt bottle of Finlander Vodka, shaken not stirred.
........and please check the current Sim. program for an ex-sunnies fella doing his upgrade.