LATAM upset SYD-AKL Mon 11 Mar
Hot Seat
Well, that showed us... There we all were having a nice time knocking cheap programmers and all the time it was the seat... There was an inverse incident on another airline where the pilot flying had his (improperly locked) seat run rearwards on Take off, causing a pitch up and feet away from the brakes etc. Not sure what happened there but the assisting pilot had his hands and feet full for a while.
Let's hope the electrical story doesn't hang the crew.
Let's hope the electrical story doesn't hang the crew.
I'm also curious - given the wording "it is understood the seat movement at cruise altitude on the flight was “pilot induced, not intentionally.”" - could this be a "seat runaway" where, for example, one of the pilots returns to their seat after a restroom break (I believe this was just prior to ToD, so perhaps a good time?) - commands the seat to move forward again ("pilot induced") side switch sticks and keeps going and going and going? (thus "not intentionally").
Is there an easy way to stop a seat "runaway"? Is there a mechanical way to reposition it should a runaway occur? Is it inevitable that an average size pilot would be forced into the yoke in the event of a seat runaway?
The seats have mechanical stops. This has happened in the past and it’s usually only an issue if the pilot has his legs in an odd position like he was twisting around to speak to someone. If obese I guess it could also be a issue before the seat hit the stops.
I flew the 737 and 744 with electric seats. I can’t see it happening as the seats move so slowly. You’d have to be fat, have your legs crossed behind the yoke or a bit dim to make push it over.
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This issue can occur when a pilot moves a seat momentarily and the seat continues on its own almost like a sticky activation switch. Any direction.
The seats also have an electrical master switch on them.
Will turning the seat off within a certain time frame be the next memory item or split switches like stab trim?
Needle Knocker, my GUESS is that if you use the mechanical levers to adjust the seat is it will disconnect a clutch while you hold the lever and stop moving(or freely slide along the rails, or down rapidly). I can only guess the motor would stop when it hits a limit switch.
The seats can be used with manual adjustments only.
The seats also have an electrical master switch on them.
Will turning the seat off within a certain time frame be the next memory item or split switches like stab trim?
Needle Knocker, my GUESS is that if you use the mechanical levers to adjust the seat is it will disconnect a clutch while you hold the lever and stop moving(or freely slide along the rails, or down rapidly). I can only guess the motor would stop when it hits a limit switch.
The seats can be used with manual adjustments only.
What if, and this is spit balling at its finest, the guy who came out was reporting correctly, that the displays did go dark. And the reason for all this is ...
He fell asleep and he could no longer see the displays while his finger was jammed into the seat switch and he woke up when the plane went nuts from him being pushed into the wheel. And ... the other pilot was also rudely awakened from their own nap.
(Now let's see how long this entirely unfounded speculation takes to make it to a news service.)
He fell asleep and he could no longer see the displays while his finger was jammed into the seat switch and he woke up when the plane went nuts from him being pushed into the wheel. And ... the other pilot was also rudely awakened from their own nap.
(Now let's see how long this entirely unfounded speculation takes to make it to a news service.)
An obese airline pilot? Obviously not an Oz pilot, with all the medical conditions required to satisfy the Oz Chief DAME. All pilots are fine examples of the human physique.
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I dont buy the 'CC accidently leaning against the swith' theory floating around. The switch has a cover, and takes a decent amount of finger force to get the seat to move. It would be absolutelu obvious to anyone who pushed it that they were the cause of the movement, and they'd let go. No way they just hold it whlist the captain likely shouts about wtf is happening.
My moneys on CM1 being occupied by more than 1 person
My moneys on CM1 being occupied by more than 1 person
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I dont buy the 'CC accidently leaning against the swith' theory floating around. The switch has a cover, and takes a decent amount of finger force to get the seat to move. It would be absolutelu obvious to anyone who pushed it that they were the cause of the movement, and they'd let go. No way they just hold it whlist the captain likely shouts about wtf is happening.
My moneys on CM1 being occupied by more than 1 person
My moneys on CM1 being occupied by more than 1 person
I guess you haven't seen the video then..
Just spitballing here, but perhaps the switch cover was broken or damaged such that it didn't provide the intended function.
No idea about the LATAM incident aircraft, but we tend to forget that the 787 has been in commercial service for over12 years - there are some pretty high time aircraft out there that are getting rather worn...
No idea about the LATAM incident aircraft, but we tend to forget that the 787 has been in commercial service for over12 years - there are some pretty high time aircraft out there that are getting rather worn...
That’s is very unlikely (but not impossible) to be a thing a safety department makes up on speculation.
I’ll wager that it is in reaction to an operator safety alert (equivalent) from Boeing.
I’ll wager that it is in reaction to an operator safety alert (equivalent) from Boeing.
I'm also curious - given the wording "it is understood the seat movement at cruise altitude on the flight was “pilot induced, not intentionally.”" - could this be a "seat runaway" where, for example, one of the pilots returns to their seat after a restroom break (I believe this was just prior to ToD, so perhaps a good time?) - commands the seat to move forward again ("pilot induced") side switch sticks and keeps going and going and going? (thus "not intentionally").
Boeing has a long history of messed up cabling, swapping right with left :
Back in the days of me attending university in the 90ies there was a joke about a priest at his final visit to a death row imate carring good and bad news: bad was that the convict's appeal was denied, good was that Boeing did the cabeling on the electric chair.
(background given was a then recent incident, where extinguishing an actual fire in one engnie actually soaked the remaining good engine due to mis-cabling)
I was truly amazed at reading this from 2013 : https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft-j...oeing-787-woe/
Somehow they don't learn and do not fix their quality checks.
Last edited by Reely340; 15th Mar 2024 at 11:10.
I suspect the seat had actually been moved a time or two before this incident. Doubtful cabling was reversed. I did have an Airbus seat that went up when you pushed down. The seat had however just been replaced. The issue was apparent 5 seconds after sitting down.
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What if the pilot had his lunch tray in his lap? FA leans over, perhaps to give him a cup of coffee, and leans on the possibly broken cover of the seat switch? Could the tray get pinched between the pilot and the controls? It might take a bit to extricate the tray if it got jammed in there.
A couple further questions. Could spilled liquid short out either of the seat switches and cause a malfunction? And if a dinner tray was shoved into the controls, is there anything it could possibly hit which would cause the panel to go dark?
A couple further questions. Could spilled liquid short out either of the seat switches and cause a malfunction? And if a dinner tray was shoved into the controls, is there anything it could possibly hit which would cause the panel to go dark?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad QF is buying more Airbus', especially the A350 because it's a beginning of life design, not a 30 year old re-hash with a few token bits of composite nailed on, but why do I hear so much about the woeful reliability of the A380 then?
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