Virgin pilots
I think these sort of responses are unreasonable.
Should everyone who has an opinion about the sort of issues they'd like addressed in an EBA do as you say?
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about a union MEMBER putting up their hand and saying "I'd like you to push for some of this."
I believe the current unions DO need to do better.
Should everyone who has an opinion about the sort of issues they'd like addressed in an EBA do as you say?
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about a union MEMBER putting up their hand and saying "I'd like you to push for some of this."
I believe the current unions DO need to do better.
Thread Starter
CC. Yes , as this would bring Professional Airline Pilots back to what it was many years ago, a level or standard worthy of the Job. ,but which has been eroded by the lack of a strong Pilot union versus strong unions in other industries.
Mate for a Captain of 737 this is not overpay against what is being paid out there in the real world of business, at so so many levels. The AFAP is out of touch here, they do not have the talent to take on Bain thus it’s up to all VA Pilots to tell them what they really feel and want re all remuneration and conditions to work for VA.
$330K in fact is exactly where a Capt on the 737 at VA pay should be in todays world here in Australia.
Mate for a Captain of 737 this is not overpay against what is being paid out there in the real world of business, at so so many levels. The AFAP is out of touch here, they do not have the talent to take on Bain thus it’s up to all VA Pilots to tell them what they really feel and want re all remuneration and conditions to work for VA.
$330K in fact is exactly where a Capt on the 737 at VA pay should be in todays world here in Australia.
Last edited by farrari; 11th Sep 2023 at 07:41.
The following users liked this post:
Thread Starter
Let me say this, if we had Airlines that were well run as a business and smart Pilot unions , ie both doing their job AS we do as Pilots day in day out, THEN what I am asking for above would be unlike what our VA CP just said “ mouth watering “ possible and fair.
Hopefully like most of us I want VA to make money and be profitable, I want our staff to enjoy their work , be proud of the company they work for and feel good / rewarded within themselves day to day at work.
There are many companies that do exactly this , Bain under J is not one of them hence just about everyone at VA is unhappy , disengaged and holds no respect for J. So is that good business.!.
Hell some businesses now have parental leave for dog owners in their EBA, good luck VA staff.
Oh not to mention that some Australian unions are bargaining for a 4 day week at the SAME pay. That’s 12 days off per roster, with no weekend work and all public holidays off, makes our rosters look like crap.
We are left behind now and the future looks even worse .
Hopefully like most of us I want VA to make money and be profitable, I want our staff to enjoy their work , be proud of the company they work for and feel good / rewarded within themselves day to day at work.
There are many companies that do exactly this , Bain under J is not one of them hence just about everyone at VA is unhappy , disengaged and holds no respect for J. So is that good business.!.
Hell some businesses now have parental leave for dog owners in their EBA, good luck VA staff.
Oh not to mention that some Australian unions are bargaining for a 4 day week at the SAME pay. That’s 12 days off per roster, with no weekend work and all public holidays off, makes our rosters look like crap.
We are left behind now and the future looks even worse .
Last edited by farrari; 11th Sep 2023 at 10:26.
Thread Starter
No I haven’t.
How about all VA pilots start to jump and down , call the union and complain and put pen to paper . I do. I have spoken to DC and PL at the AFAP for years about this.
All VA pilots need to get active , vocal and speak up.
However having said this your voice is only good as the people representing you and there f******useless.That’s why we are where we are today.
Thats called a catch 22 !
We need a ‘ VOICE to VIRGIN ‘
Last edited by farrari; 11th Sep 2023 at 12:00.
Let me say this, if we had Airlines that were well run as a business and smart Pilot unions , ie both doing their job AS we do as Pilots day in day out, THEN what I am asking for above would be unlike what our VA CP just said “ mouth watering “ possible and fair.
Hopefully like most of us I want VA to make money and be profitable, I want our staff to enjoy their work , be proud of the company they work for and feel good / rewarded within themselves day to day at work.
There are many companies that do exactly this , Bain under J is not one of them hence just about everyone at VA is unhappy , disengaged and holds no respect for J. So is that good business.!.
Hell some businesses now have parental leave for dog owners in their EBA, good luck VA staff.
Oh not to mention that some Australian unions are bargaining for a 4 day week at the SAME pay. That’s 12 days off per roster, with no weekend work and all public holidays off, makes our rosters look like crap.
We are left behind now and the future looks even worse .
Hopefully like most of us I want VA to make money and be profitable, I want our staff to enjoy their work , be proud of the company they work for and feel good / rewarded within themselves day to day at work.
There are many companies that do exactly this , Bain under J is not one of them hence just about everyone at VA is unhappy , disengaged and holds no respect for J. So is that good business.!.
Hell some businesses now have parental leave for dog owners in their EBA, good luck VA staff.
Oh not to mention that some Australian unions are bargaining for a 4 day week at the SAME pay. That’s 12 days off per roster, with no weekend work and all public holidays off, makes our rosters look like crap.
We are left behind now and the future looks even worse .
Being a pilot was once a highly respected and highly paid profession. It’s now become a joke. There are many more industries out there that offer much better pay and lifestyle. The lifestyle is inexistent for the many commuters at VA.
A lot of companies knows how to treat their staff right. Look at BHP, RIO, EY, KPMG and have a look at their paternity leave. Generally upwards of 20 weeks. Then look at what we have.
Our agreement is a joke and continues to go backwards. Good luck to VA with retaining experienced crew if a rubbish agreement is voted in. It’s time for crew to stand up and vote for what we’re worth!
You say that your voice is only as good as the people representing you - why don't you represent yourself - you can legally and are allowed to do so, without the union if you want ! Old fashioned but true - if you think you can do better, do it is my point !
The union doesn't vote on your behalf(or for others) tho ferrari - still needs 50% plus one when it comes to vote time. The crap deals you talk of, were still 'agreed' to by a majority. If your not willing to sit in the negotiating room to get a better deal, the least you can do as a collective is vote no, and be willing to do something (industrial action) to improve the offer on the table ! That might mean losing some $$ in the short term, which a lot are never willing to do.
The deal you get - is the deal you are willing to accept or be willing to fight for better. The union isn't just the ones at the table, its a collective of all the pilots, members and NON members, as you point out, the union and the negotiators put the best offer they can get on the table, and there is a VOTE !
Complaining you got a crap deal because the union is crap is like blaming the gym because you don't look like the rock, but you aren't willing to go to the gym. Everyone needs to go to the gym(not just join it), and put in the work to see the results. You all won't look ripped on the basis of the work of 5 people turning up everyday willing to work out for 5 hours, while you sit at home on the couch.
Sadly everyone wants the awesome deal - but for everyone else to do the hard work thats required to get it, and quietly blame the minority that work their asses off(in their own time mostly!) to fight the evil empires alone. Remember you as a collective - ARE the union.
The union doesn't vote on your behalf(or for others) tho ferrari - still needs 50% plus one when it comes to vote time. The crap deals you talk of, were still 'agreed' to by a majority. If your not willing to sit in the negotiating room to get a better deal, the least you can do as a collective is vote no, and be willing to do something (industrial action) to improve the offer on the table ! That might mean losing some $$ in the short term, which a lot are never willing to do.
The deal you get - is the deal you are willing to accept or be willing to fight for better. The union isn't just the ones at the table, its a collective of all the pilots, members and NON members, as you point out, the union and the negotiators put the best offer they can get on the table, and there is a VOTE !
Complaining you got a crap deal because the union is crap is like blaming the gym because you don't look like the rock, but you aren't willing to go to the gym. Everyone needs to go to the gym(not just join it), and put in the work to see the results. You all won't look ripped on the basis of the work of 5 people turning up everyday willing to work out for 5 hours, while you sit at home on the couch.
Sadly everyone wants the awesome deal - but for everyone else to do the hard work thats required to get it, and quietly blame the minority that work their asses off(in their own time mostly!) to fight the evil empires alone. Remember you as a collective - ARE the union.
The following users liked this post:
Good luck to VA with retaining experienced crew if a rubbish agreement is voted in.
You’re bang on! Why would anyone want to join this industry now when you can work elsewhere with 4 day weeks, WFH, weekends/public holidays off and be able to manage your personal/family life.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it will be up to the pilots in the end obviously, however it's not off to a good start. One of the Rep groups are kicking own goals. Firstly, saying they won't negotiate with the other pilot rep group in the room. (company are high 5-ing on that one.)
Now proposing Pay rates to the company that are not nearly enough. Line Captain - yr 1 278k, Yr2-287K, yr3-295 // Fo 181K/186k/192K. Seem to be happy to increase the OT trigger to 69. and seem to be open to reducing our days off to 11/12.
Seriously?
After both mobs endorsing the S*&% sandwich of the last agreement (Take a 20% pay cut - in exchange for all the lifestyle benefits of a real CMS roster swap/bidding/dump system) like nearly all other airlines have had for 30 years, which they (not) surprisingly reneged on and didn't deliver.... OH hang on, it wasn't legally binding in the EBA we endorsed anyway, expect for the pay cut part), this seems to be a face saving rush to stay relevant with the company and its members hoping the last EBA debacle is "forgotten".
Couple of tips to both unions : the pilots want 2023 conditions, not 2018
The pilots want an increase in all conditions, not some cost neutral agreement.( i.e - You have to give up days off for more money........ arrrrr NO.! You have to increase the OT trigger for a higher base,......Arrrrrr NO.)
Lifestyle / work balance is terrible atm hence why so many are leaving.
Work with the other union! as its in your members interest. Maybe call AIPA and get a copy of their SH Log of claims. Get hard binding standards for all things, like accomodation. (lowest standards in 20 years atm) Stop appeasing the company with sub par agreements that are non binding.
Certain people need to remember they work for the members.The members don't work for you.
- and yes I have told that directly to the Reps as well.
Stand together!
Now proposing Pay rates to the company that are not nearly enough. Line Captain - yr 1 278k, Yr2-287K, yr3-295 // Fo 181K/186k/192K. Seem to be happy to increase the OT trigger to 69. and seem to be open to reducing our days off to 11/12.
Seriously?
After both mobs endorsing the S*&% sandwich of the last agreement (Take a 20% pay cut - in exchange for all the lifestyle benefits of a real CMS roster swap/bidding/dump system) like nearly all other airlines have had for 30 years, which they (not) surprisingly reneged on and didn't deliver.... OH hang on, it wasn't legally binding in the EBA we endorsed anyway, expect for the pay cut part), this seems to be a face saving rush to stay relevant with the company and its members hoping the last EBA debacle is "forgotten".
Couple of tips to both unions : the pilots want 2023 conditions, not 2018
The pilots want an increase in all conditions, not some cost neutral agreement.( i.e - You have to give up days off for more money........ arrrrr NO.! You have to increase the OT trigger for a higher base,......Arrrrrr NO.)
Lifestyle / work balance is terrible atm hence why so many are leaving.
Work with the other union! as its in your members interest. Maybe call AIPA and get a copy of their SH Log of claims. Get hard binding standards for all things, like accomodation. (lowest standards in 20 years atm) Stop appeasing the company with sub par agreements that are non binding.
Certain people need to remember they work for the members.The members don't work for you.
- and yes I have told that directly to the Reps as well.
Stand together!
Thread Starter
PAm ,
Nothing in what u have said about the Unions is unsurprising.
I agree with you , I hope all VA pilots get finally vocal and mad , time to tell the unions and the reps what we want as I have covered above.
Time for all pilots to get some passion and life in them and tell both VA and the unions what we want., time to have a life style for yourselves and your families, time to make your profession great again as it was so so many years ago. Time for some serious fairness for our work. Time to be proud to be a professional Airline Pilot , time to feel valued.
Tell that to the Unions and VA management.
Its really time for ALL VA pilots to use their , ‘ VOICE ‘.
Your reps and Union are weak , in fact pathetic.
Nothing in what u have said about the Unions is unsurprising.
I agree with you , I hope all VA pilots get finally vocal and mad , time to tell the unions and the reps what we want as I have covered above.
Time for all pilots to get some passion and life in them and tell both VA and the unions what we want., time to have a life style for yourselves and your families, time to make your profession great again as it was so so many years ago. Time for some serious fairness for our work. Time to be proud to be a professional Airline Pilot , time to feel valued.
Tell that to the Unions and VA management.
Its really time for ALL VA pilots to use their , ‘ VOICE ‘.
Your reps and Union are weak , in fact pathetic.
Last edited by farrari; 12th Sep 2023 at 19:39.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,278
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
4 Posts
Just go sick for 6 days straights every 2 weeks, that’s would sort the idiot companies out, medical certificates are cheap as chips these days!
Thread Starter
I rest my case how useless the AFAP is and now the TWU, today we all heard how QF have been treating their staff.
Yet nothing from our Unions about what happened to us Pilots and other staff at VA.
Yet nothing from our Unions about what happened to us Pilots and other staff at VA.
The following users liked this post:
Thread Starter
given our Unions and reps are useless, the only way to bring J to account is to collectively and targeted with draw your labour. And for those that say , they will get others to do the job, no takes a longer time to hire and train pilots than for then to lose too much cash.
Only when B realise VA business is losing money will they negotiate to what I feel is acceptable above.
Yes that’s asking a lot and yes I am dreaming, but mark my word it’s the only option.
Only when B realise VA business is losing money will they negotiate to what I feel is acceptable above.
Yes that’s asking a lot and yes I am dreaming, but mark my word it’s the only option.
Last edited by farrari; 14th Sep 2023 at 06:44.
I just don’t care anymore, over 20 years I have busted my arse to ‘help out’ and my reward has been 5 years of pay freeze, deteriorating conditions, an airline operation that has been decimated by our so called leaders purely to feather their own nest and leaving the operational staff to pick up the pieces and our reward for that is a standard 3% pay rise when inflation is running at double that in a year where the airline makes a record profit. Time to look after Ollie!
The following 4 users liked this post by Ollie Onion:
Whilst there will always be a small minority of flight crew that will chase flying no matter what, I think the vast majority are fed up like yourself Ollie and “adjust” their rosters as they see fit. There is a sense I get that most are just beyond caring anymore.
Thread Starter
Many Sydney Pilots need to ask their pathetic union , to look into the arrangements for the new Sydney airport re their work.
Other wise , some will be rostered to it with lots of unacceptable consequences. This airport will impact our time within the next EBA. Time to ask .!,,,
Other wise , some will be rostered to it with lots of unacceptable consequences. This airport will impact our time within the next EBA. Time to ask .!,,,
