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Old 19th Jul 2023, 00:23
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Aus pilots need to just wake up, and place a proper value on themselves, draw a line in the proverbial sand, and take it to these tyrannical organisations.
This is often the quoted sentiment but how does it actually work in practise? When was the last time pilots actually took strike action and devoted their time to a picket line? The American experience is often quoted but they will hold up placards and actually sacrifice their time and their income to get a better pay deal. If you don't understand how the industrial landscape has been skewed in favour of the corporations and that walk off the job strike action is in fact illegal then you are just pissing into the wind. Pay rises have flat lined across all industries for the last 30 years.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 01:57
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In a year say between 1988 and 1990 you know the year we don't mention IIRC this type of action was taken and depending on your point of view, i'm not sure everything went according to plan.

Just saying.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 02:03
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Hence why Australia needs a proper pilots union that can represent all players, or at least an understanding between unions that no pilots will act as strike breakers. The chance of international ring ins saving the day is much lower as well, seeing that Australia has become a leper colony for conditions and regulator mediocrity. They can't even hire internationals to come here for normal positions, let alone those that know they will be hated by all and sundry.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 02:40
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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I was specific when I mentioned strike action. Pilots can resign en-masse even today, but it will achieve the same result as that year.

Hence why Australia needs a proper pilots union that can represent all players, or at least an understanding between unions that no pilots will act as strike breakers.
Not sure what a "proper pilots union" is. What the pilot's unions need is a properly funded negotiator who can represent all the unions in any negotiations. One who is not subject to the pressures of being a pilot and who can negotiate with the client's objectives in mind.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 03:37
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Not sure what a "proper pilots union" is. What the pilot's unions need is a properly funded negotiator who can represent all the unions in any negotiations. One who is not subject to the pressures of being a pilot and who can negotiate with the client's objectives in mind.
ALPA in the US is a proper pilots union, it's independent, it has industry weight that can not only negotiate terms but fight regulatory issues, like FRMS and safety concerns, as well as promote scope clauses and whatever else. Here each airline has its own union, which means the union is linked to that airline in more ways than one for both its own survival and the representation of the pilots. Which in my eyes is a conflict of interest.. The union needs to be independent of the operator, so as not to be influenced by the operator, and have representatives from the operators pilot body to ensure operator specific issues are dealt with.

The real driver of the pay rises in the US is the rules fought for by ALPA, specifically the 1500 hour ruling. I'd like to see a union here have the clout to change regulations for the better, so far we have been stepped on by everything from security to medical issues and I don't see much from a union front to really counter any of it.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 03:50
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chookcooker
oh please. They wouldnít have change a pairing like that to avoid paying a crew and extra couple of hundred bucks.
Exactly.

More fear-mongering to make the pilots roll over. The worst people in any organisation are those who act through fear.

ĒMy mateís best friendís sister in law said they heard a rumour that if we donít do five day patterns then we could lose Japan flights! And if that happens they might use foreign pilots instead. We might all end up unemployed!!! Wonít somebody think of the children. Letís roll over and give them something for nothing.Ē

Pathetic.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 06:17
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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PIA

Originally Posted by Lookleft
This is often the quoted sentiment but how does it actually work in practise? When was the last time pilots actually took strike action and devoted their time to a picket line? The American experience is often quoted but they will hold up placards and actually sacrifice their time and their income to get a better pay deal. If you don't understand how the industrial landscape has been skewed in favour of the corporations and that walk off the job strike action is in fact illegal then you are just pissing into the wind. Pay rises have flat lined across all industries for the last 30 years.
PIA is the avenue, it's not illegal so long as the process has been followed.
The 'good faith' aspect of bargaining is all but ignored by companies, and unfortunately when a negotiation does, end up at the FWC, even the commissioners appear to take a softly softly approach on the delay tactics taken by the companies. (ie: there ain't no good faith in most cases)

In the end, and again the pilots hold the power (here and now) - there needs to be cohesion and decent representation, and then conceivably the change could be made. Oh, and also a slight bit of respect restored.

In a generation not too far from here, a late PM described pilots as nothing but glorified bus drivers, it's almost like the companies feel that's the case, and the concept has almost eked into the sub conscious of a generation of professional pilots.

Both the majors in Australia at the moment are essentially printing money, and continue to use the Covid 19 pandemic circumstances in their thinly veiled and threatening excuses for maintaining (aka : suppressing and retracting) wage growth. People need to simply wake up.

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Old 19th Jul 2023, 09:27
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Originally Posted by farrari
Many can not see the woods for trees.
Any Pilot, management ones aside, who have committed to Japan Flt’s are just plane dumb or greedy.
Here we had a wonderful business opportunity to negotiate some better options for ALL VA pilots.
And now with out any sign of a professional strong union the way forward is dead .
Well done , really.
So what's your solution? Put your name to a letter calling for a boycott of 5 day trips? or just get on here and whinge about "the union"? Put up or shut up. But before you put up, you may want to take the advice of the union that you disparage, and probably aren't even a financial member of, and understand that any organising of pilots to boycott 5 day trips would be illegal and unprotected industrial action. Individuals can choose to refuse 5 day trips under the VA EA, but no-one, even the union can call for a boycott.

The union you so disparage has a plan, a legally enforceable plan, but if you're not a member then **** off.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 09:53
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chookcooker
oh please. They wouldnít have change a pairing like that to avoid paying a crew and extra couple of hundred bucks.
If no pilots opted into 5 day trips and that was the difference between operating the route or not, I guarantee the schedule would have been changed to allow day rest in the hotel in Cairns and have you end up back home late on Day 4.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 12:45
  #50 (permalink)  
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Yes Mr. Colonel Kiink, , then say NO to ANY Jap flying, Mate it’s not ******* rocket science,.
**** me.
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 12:46
  #51 (permalink)  
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Dumb and dumber we are at VA
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Old 19th Jul 2023, 14:00
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Originally Posted by farrari
Yes Mr. Colonel Kiink, , then say NO to ANY Jap flying, Mate itís not ******* rocket science,.
**** me.
It obviously must be for someÖ..because If itís a 4 day pairing you donít have the ability to say no.

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Old 19th Jul 2023, 18:52
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From the outside, there's a very simple short term solution: just stop working on your days off.
For the love of the entire industry, please stop lowering the bar..
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 10:08
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Well TimmyTee, that had started to happen to some degree. The standard day off call in minimum is the greater of 5 hours or actual hours flown at the hourly rate. Over recent peak periods (Xmas , NY, Easter, School holidays) it has been increased to 7 and for 4 days covering last weekend in desperation it was increased to 10 hours. Along with a regular stream of mass SMS broadcasts to work days off, in addition to bouts of cold calling, the smell of desperation now hangs in the air🤓.
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 12:01
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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So what is it as of today?
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Old 20th Jul 2023, 22:06
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink
If no pilots opted into 5 day trips and that was the difference between operating the route or not, I guarantee the schedule would have been changed to allow day rest in the hotel in Cairns and have you end up back home late on Day 4.
sure. OR they would have upped the offer. You know like, 7 hour drafts. No make that 10 hour drafts.
but whatever makes those that took the below industry standard offer sleep well I guess
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 01:43
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Originally Posted by chookcooker
sure. OR they would have upped the offer. You know like, 7 hour drafts. No make that 10 hour drafts.
but whatever makes those that took the below industry standard offer sleep well I guess
Yup thatís a fair point.

As Iíve said previously - I personally couldnít think of anything worse than doing that pairing!
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 22:00
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Its so great to see your back Farrari 🙄
More like a Datsun 180B but yeh, whatever you what to identify as
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 23:26
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Originally Posted by Double_Clutch
Its so great to see your back Farrari 🙄
More like a Datsun 180B but yeh, whatever you what to identify as
Hey thereís nothing wrong with a Datsun 180B
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Old 21st Jul 2023, 23:29
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What I find interesting is the level of personal attack that occurs when a fellow pilot airs a grievance about a company that reduced pay and conditions by nearly 20%, failed to implement a trip swap system and execs will be walking away with tens of millions between them.

Yet we infight for the privilege of working harder for less. Each to their own. Sad really.
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