Sing Air ponders domestic route
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bentandtwisted & casper, do Alliance have singaporean investment?
I would have thought if Sia start an operation here REX would be a sure target for an agreement considering they are now 40% owned be singaporeans with two on the Board.
With 31 regional and metropolitan destinations in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania and Based in Sydney Sia would have it covered.
I would have thought if Sia start an operation here REX would be a sure target for an agreement considering they are now 40% owned be singaporeans with two on the Board.
With 31 regional and metropolitan destinations in New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania and Based in Sydney Sia would have it covered.
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Quote
"Ansett had, once upon a time, a wonderful brand reputation but it didn't at the end," he said.
"It had a couple of serious maintenance concerns and ... the reputation wasn't quite what it was five or even 10 years ago.
Something about glass houses.
"Ansett had, once upon a time, a wonderful brand reputation but it didn't at the end," he said.
"It had a couple of serious maintenance concerns and ... the reputation wasn't quite what it was five or even 10 years ago.
Something about glass houses.
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I find the comments made by that blabber mouth, Mr. Godfrey so shallow...if he thinks that raising hope for exAN people is not fair..then whats fair about the NO HOPE exAN people have with Virgin...AN had very experienced staff with a great reputation...737 drivers with 1000's of hours experience, cant get a look in because of the "Home and Away" culture and prejudice with the infamous list...There is NO WAY Mr. Godfrey would want to see another Airline start here...especialy SQ behind it...the maintenece problems were brought upon by that country of pestulence accross the Tasman...When AirNZ took over it was like the "Black Plague" of 16th century London had descended on Ansett...but they called the shots and the purse strings....they just did nothing and the Ansett staff carried the airline under difficult circumstances despite Air NZ management's stupidity...I say bring on the new airline and get lots of that wnderful AN staff back...as they sure as hell paid their dues, that Virgin does not want to recognize................
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Aladdin,
Yes REX maybe 40% owned by "singaporeans", but they are "singaporean" businessman. They have nothing to do with SQ/SIA. I do think they (REX) will play a part in providing a regional feeder to any SQ/SIA domestic operation but Alliance will play a "MAJOR" part.
At this stage SQ has no direct investment in Alliance but they do have an indirect investment. One of Alliance/QAHs shareholders is Aeromil. Aeromil have just started their 10 year contract with SQ, to provide support for the advanced flying training in the LR45s at MCY. Also a few weeks ago, Sunshine Express (owned by Aeromil) operated a charter flight from MCY-BNE-MCY. This flight carried had some very senior people from SQ on board. They flew down to inspect the Alliance Airlines facilities.
dlf and casper,
true, I've been saying this for over a month now! One day they will see the big picture.
People look outside the square! SQ do not need a new AOC.
I'm sure it's much quicker to add the A320 to a current HCAOC then to apply for a new one
Yes REX maybe 40% owned by "singaporeans", but they are "singaporean" businessman. They have nothing to do with SQ/SIA. I do think they (REX) will play a part in providing a regional feeder to any SQ/SIA domestic operation but Alliance will play a "MAJOR" part.
At this stage SQ has no direct investment in Alliance but they do have an indirect investment. One of Alliance/QAHs shareholders is Aeromil. Aeromil have just started their 10 year contract with SQ, to provide support for the advanced flying training in the LR45s at MCY. Also a few weeks ago, Sunshine Express (owned by Aeromil) operated a charter flight from MCY-BNE-MCY. This flight carried had some very senior people from SQ on board. They flew down to inspect the Alliance Airlines facilities.
dlf and casper,
true, I've been saying this for over a month now! One day they will see the big picture.
People look outside the square! SQ do not need a new AOC.
I'm sure it's much quicker to add the A320 to a current HCAOC then to apply for a new one
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Dick - get your facts straight before opening your gob!
VB have employed over 50 ex ansett guys and a couple of them have already been upgraded to Command!
If you think that Virgin has an obligation to employ EVERY AN driver just because they lost their jobs, you are the proverbial dreamer.
Keep the faith:]
737 drivers with 1000's of hours experience, cant get a look in because of the "Home and Away" culture and prejudice with the infamous list...
If you think that Virgin has an obligation to employ EVERY AN driver just because they lost their jobs, you are the proverbial dreamer.
Keep the faith:]
Bent,
There is no difference between adding A320's onto an existing AOC and setting up a new AOC.
Both require the same amount of work as the AOC review and issue process needs to be completed in both cases.
I can assure you that the Alliance infrastructure is such that adding a fleet of A320's would be difficult - not impossible - but difficult and would take in the order of 6-12 months from pushing the button.
Having said that there is nothing to say that the button wasn't pushed 6-12 months ago - but I see no evidence of that thus far.
There is no difference between adding A320's onto an existing AOC and setting up a new AOC.
Both require the same amount of work as the AOC review and issue process needs to be completed in both cases.
I can assure you that the Alliance infrastructure is such that adding a fleet of A320's would be difficult - not impossible - but difficult and would take in the order of 6-12 months from pushing the button.
Having said that there is nothing to say that the button wasn't pushed 6-12 months ago - but I see no evidence of that thus far.
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Will they or won't they?????
Now this was reported in today's SMH, another media slant on the topic!
"Singapore Air not an airhead
September 5 2002
Of course not. So why would they want to start another airline in Australia?
The words of Sir Humphrey Appleby spring to mind when it comes to Singapore Air entering the domestic aviation market: such a move would certainly be a "courageous" decision.
The talk of Singapore Air starting up down under was rife again yesterday. But tellers of the tale have overlooked a few little details, such as the lack of substance to the speculation.
For a start, Singapore Air hasn't approached a single key supplier, such as unions or fuel companies, about an Australian service. It has had some very preliminary talks with Sydney and Melbourne airports, but that's about it.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has no applications before it for an air operators' certificate, and it takes 12 months anyway to issue one of those things. If Singapore Air is to decide at this month's board meeting that it will go ahead with a new domestic carrier, it will do so from a distinct state of unreadiness.
At best, you'd say Singapore Air is doing a rough back-of-the-envelope job on the alternatives to taking a stake in Qantas.
The real concern is that if Singapore Air did establish a domestic service it would tend to suggest they're not completely rational. And no one wants to compete against madmen, hence the 6c fall in Qantas yesterday to $4.09.
It would need at least $2 billion and a minimum 20 aircraft to make the idea fly. Merrill Lynch has noted before that the story only works if the start-up can win 30 per cent of the corporate market in double time. But Qantas has 100 per cent of that market locked up in two and three year deals.
And there's really no incentive for Singapore Air, especially as it already has an interlining deal with Qantas. It allows Singapore customers to buy seats on Qantas planes at the same price as can passengers of Qantas's Oneworld alliance partners British Airways and Cathay Pacific.
If all that weren't enough, Qantas is sitting on about $800 million in new equity and is more than ready for a price war.
Good luck, Singapore Air"
Anyway it gives another view. Although I could be wrong, but I agree with the article and don't believe SIA will operate domestic here in the near future.
"Singapore Air not an airhead
September 5 2002
Of course not. So why would they want to start another airline in Australia?
The words of Sir Humphrey Appleby spring to mind when it comes to Singapore Air entering the domestic aviation market: such a move would certainly be a "courageous" decision.
The talk of Singapore Air starting up down under was rife again yesterday. But tellers of the tale have overlooked a few little details, such as the lack of substance to the speculation.
For a start, Singapore Air hasn't approached a single key supplier, such as unions or fuel companies, about an Australian service. It has had some very preliminary talks with Sydney and Melbourne airports, but that's about it.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has no applications before it for an air operators' certificate, and it takes 12 months anyway to issue one of those things. If Singapore Air is to decide at this month's board meeting that it will go ahead with a new domestic carrier, it will do so from a distinct state of unreadiness.
At best, you'd say Singapore Air is doing a rough back-of-the-envelope job on the alternatives to taking a stake in Qantas.
The real concern is that if Singapore Air did establish a domestic service it would tend to suggest they're not completely rational. And no one wants to compete against madmen, hence the 6c fall in Qantas yesterday to $4.09.
It would need at least $2 billion and a minimum 20 aircraft to make the idea fly. Merrill Lynch has noted before that the story only works if the start-up can win 30 per cent of the corporate market in double time. But Qantas has 100 per cent of that market locked up in two and three year deals.
And there's really no incentive for Singapore Air, especially as it already has an interlining deal with Qantas. It allows Singapore customers to buy seats on Qantas planes at the same price as can passengers of Qantas's Oneworld alliance partners British Airways and Cathay Pacific.
If all that weren't enough, Qantas is sitting on about $800 million in new equity and is more than ready for a price war.
Good luck, Singapore Air"
Anyway it gives another view. Although I could be wrong, but I agree with the article and don't believe SIA will operate domestic here in the near future.
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How Fast things Change?
SINGAPORE - Singapore Airlines (SIA) has sent teams to Australia to explore the domestic flight market, but any plans it has for "Down Under" are still up in the air, a company spokesman said today.
Asked about rumours that SIA has designs on failed Australian domestic carrier Ansett Airlines, spokesman Rick Clements said the Singapore carrier was "ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out".
"Australia is an important market and we are keeping our eye on its domestic market," he said, adding that the airline had sent teams to Australia to "explore the environment" over the last three weeks.
Nicholas Ionides, a Singapore-based editor at aviation industry magazine Air Transport Intelligence, said Singapore Airlines was clearly studying the possibility of setting up an airline in Australia.
"But you would expect them to. They've long harboured aspirations for Australia," he said.
For decades, Australia's domestic industry was dominated by Ansett Airlines and Qantas Airways. But Ansett collapsed a year ago after a price war with Qantas and newcomer Virgin Blue.
From Singapore Business Times as Latest News 05.09.02
Asked about rumours that SIA has designs on failed Australian domestic carrier Ansett Airlines, spokesman Rick Clements said the Singapore carrier was "ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out".
"Australia is an important market and we are keeping our eye on its domestic market," he said, adding that the airline had sent teams to Australia to "explore the environment" over the last three weeks.
Nicholas Ionides, a Singapore-based editor at aviation industry magazine Air Transport Intelligence, said Singapore Airlines was clearly studying the possibility of setting up an airline in Australia.
"But you would expect them to. They've long harboured aspirations for Australia," he said.
For decades, Australia's domestic industry was dominated by Ansett Airlines and Qantas Airways. But Ansett collapsed a year ago after a price war with Qantas and newcomer Virgin Blue.
From Singapore Business Times as Latest News 05.09.02
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Whiskery...you seem angry and that I don't know what I'm talking about ...but I can assure you that there are ex AN drivers with 1000's of hours on 737's and they do not get a look in because they are on "THE LIST!!!" I know of some that became instant Captains but they were the good boys that went back to Ansett after the AFAP lifted the sanctions and said you can go back and get your jobs...I can asure you that NOT ONE exAN driver is with virgin who is on the "THE LIST". I didn't imply that virgin has to employ every exAN driver because he/her lost their job...I just stated the facts....
I have been told straight out by a virgin pilot that no exAN driver on "THE LIST" will be employed by virgin....why would that be Whiskery?...as I have told the story to many people and they are in disbelief of this pathetic bloody minded attitude...the problem is that not everybody agreed with the AFAP and what they were doing in 1989...the AFAP was screwed by Hawke for not joining the accord...at the time the Govt, the public, and companies were against the AFAP...and when there was a move by guys back to work all of the membership had resigned...the courts awarded around 6 mill in damages to the companies...those that did not want go back to work didn't...those that wanted to go to work did......its a free country...and not a dictatorship...no one has the right to ruin their company...if you don't like the heat in the kitchen...then you know what to do...........
I have been told straight out by a virgin pilot that no exAN driver on "THE LIST" will be employed by virgin....why would that be Whiskery?...as I have told the story to many people and they are in disbelief of this pathetic bloody minded attitude...the problem is that not everybody agreed with the AFAP and what they were doing in 1989...the AFAP was screwed by Hawke for not joining the accord...at the time the Govt, the public, and companies were against the AFAP...and when there was a move by guys back to work all of the membership had resigned...the courts awarded around 6 mill in damages to the companies...those that did not want go back to work didn't...those that wanted to go to work did......its a free country...and not a dictatorship...no one has the right to ruin their company...if you don't like the heat in the kitchen...then you know what to do...........
short flights long nights
At the risk of hijacking this thread............. all of a sudden there seems to be a lot of concern about a "list". And the fact that a lot of really great, experienced, pilots are not getting jobs because they appear on this "list".
It makes me think........what about all the experienced pilots, around about 800 in total, who reapplied for their jobs in early 1990 with Ansett, at the direction of the AFAP?
They were all, selected and trained by Ansett,trained to the airlines standard, and willing to work for them. But except for a number less than 20. all were decreed as not suitable for Ansett any longer. Many of these pilots went on to obtain even more qualifications and experience outside of Ansett, and continued to apply for a job back with their old employer, but always to no avail.
That was Ansetts right, I am sure they did not have a list, they just found that despite a person who may had previously flown for them for 10 or 20 years, incedent free, and was now more qualified than before, the person just did not meet the company profile that was currently required. And the flight staff in AN, set the standards, as was their job, and these were applied.
So why is is such a problem now, that other airlines, are applying thier own standards, and regardless of so called "experience", saying that " we are sorry, you dont meet our profile".
Every airline is different, each knows what it wants. Ansett decided what it wanted, and employed those people. Other airlines have the same right to decide who they want, and employ the same.
It makes me think........what about all the experienced pilots, around about 800 in total, who reapplied for their jobs in early 1990 with Ansett, at the direction of the AFAP?
They were all, selected and trained by Ansett,trained to the airlines standard, and willing to work for them. But except for a number less than 20. all were decreed as not suitable for Ansett any longer. Many of these pilots went on to obtain even more qualifications and experience outside of Ansett, and continued to apply for a job back with their old employer, but always to no avail.
That was Ansetts right, I am sure they did not have a list, they just found that despite a person who may had previously flown for them for 10 or 20 years, incedent free, and was now more qualified than before, the person just did not meet the company profile that was currently required. And the flight staff in AN, set the standards, as was their job, and these were applied.
So why is is such a problem now, that other airlines, are applying thier own standards, and regardless of so called "experience", saying that " we are sorry, you dont meet our profile".
Every airline is different, each knows what it wants. Ansett decided what it wanted, and employed those people. Other airlines have the same right to decide who they want, and employ the same.
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When Mr Godfrey was on yesterday's Sunrise and came out with his comment of "It had a couple of serious maintenance concerns and ... the reputation wasn't quite what it was five or even 10 years ago." I nearly choked on my croissant.
Indeed glass houses and stones do not go well together. Whether in his opinion all he said was truth, I still don't think it's appropriate for him to say it on national TV. Bagging the (albeit former) opposition's safety record is a big no-no, but I guess VB are known for their unconventionality (is that a word?).
SG
Indeed glass houses and stones do not go well together. Whether in his opinion all he said was truth, I still don't think it's appropriate for him to say it on national TV. Bagging the (albeit former) opposition's safety record is a big no-no, but I guess VB are known for their unconventionality (is that a word?).
SG
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Dick, I am not angry with you mate - just stating the facts. Virgin Blue have taken ex Ansett pilots. Now they may not have taken you or some of your mates, but that was NOT what your complaint was:
Virgin have given more than "hope" to many ex AN people.
if he thinks that raising hope for exAN people is not fair..then whats fair about the NO HOPE exAN people have with Virgin...
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Sopwith Pup
I think you will find that:
1. SIA already has contracts with all the necessry suppliers at all the major airports here in Australia.
2. The original Ansett AOC is still active with a chief pilot still being employed so it would more than likely be a case of CASA simply having to decide if SIA and their still-to-be-appointed staff were suitable to continue with it.
1. SIA already has contracts with all the necessry suppliers at all the major airports here in Australia.
2. The original Ansett AOC is still active with a chief pilot still being employed so it would more than likely be a case of CASA simply having to decide if SIA and their still-to-be-appointed staff were suitable to continue with it.
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I see what you are trying to say SOPS...Ansett advertised for Tech Crew and said quite specifically that "ex Ansett staff are wecome to apply"..a lot did and guys joined...the door was slammed shut for most because they would not apply until the AFAP lifted sanctions...As I've been told that Ansett was within days of going over the edge, because of that dispute...so if I were the Big Kahouna...why would I employ people that were so vindictive and just about sent me out of business...they are just as likely to do it again....and then I have 800 guys that hate my guts...I couldn't run a business with a gun at my head.
This was a test of who was loyal to who...so where does your loyalty lie was what management wanted to know...I like others answered the ad...and like others had nothing to do with that dispute....but someone has decided to put me on "THE LIST", and by the way I know of some that should be on the list and aren't...As I have said many times...my loyalty is to my company and family, not to a union...I do not follow union directive if it will be destructive...
and Whiskery...ok I'll buy your argument, yes virgin have given some AN staff hope, and are employed by them, I just resent the fact I can't get employed because someone has put me on some list...I did not cause or had any part in causing Ansett and Australian for that matter lose millions of dollars, subotaged the economy, and sent many businesses broke, my biggest crime in life is that I answered an ad............
This was a test of who was loyal to who...so where does your loyalty lie was what management wanted to know...I like others answered the ad...and like others had nothing to do with that dispute....but someone has decided to put me on "THE LIST", and by the way I know of some that should be on the list and aren't...As I have said many times...my loyalty is to my company and family, not to a union...I do not follow union directive if it will be destructive...
and Whiskery...ok I'll buy your argument, yes virgin have given some AN staff hope, and are employed by them, I just resent the fact I can't get employed because someone has put me on some list...I did not cause or had any part in causing Ansett and Australian for that matter lose millions of dollars, subotaged the economy, and sent many businesses broke, my biggest crime in life is that I answered an ad............