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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 18th Aug 2021, 09:24
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
I take it with Loss of Licence, the insurance company are all happy about this.
I'm sure they would be very happy about it. Rough figures - take on a 1 in 500,000 or less of a loss of licence event through side effects (or less) vs 1 in 1000 death and 1-2 in 100 of long COVID. Pretty shrewd move for an insurer I'd say.

Meanwhile in Canada.
"As soon as possible in the Fall and no later than the end of October, the Government of Canada will require employees in the federally regulated air, rail, and marine transportation sectors to be vaccinated. The vaccination requirement will also extend to certain travellers. This includes all commercial air travellers," his office said.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 10:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure what the big issue here is.
Other industries have required flu vax for years. Not a new concept.
Seems the vast majority of employees don't take issue with it and the concept is in line with airlines and governments across the globe.

Regarding this being a change of view on a/c transmission, I'm not sure that's what this is.
It's a recognition that in order to permit entry to other countries going forward (if the drawbridge ever comes down) and to prevent crews isolating/quarantining on return, vax is the ticket that's needed.
Plus it would be nice to one day leave a hotel on a slip again. Can't see other governments letting you roam around on a slip without a vax.

To be fair to Alan, he makes a solid point when he says that if COVID vax is not your thing, then international aviation going forward is probably not for you.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 10:23
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

Thats fair enough. Employers are mandated by law to provide a safe workplace.

This was never going to be any different.

Who wants to sit next to a hipster who wont get vaccinated anyway? Would you be happy with someone smoking next to you on a long flight? Not much difference between the two these days.

The " Me " generation is about to get a dose of coporate reality.

MCD



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Old 18th Aug 2021, 10:26
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Koizi View Post
Not sure what the big issue here is.
Other industries have required flu vax for years. Not a new concept.
Seems the vast majority of employees don't take issue with it and the concept is in line with airlines and governments across the globe.

Regarding this being a change of view on a/c transmission, I'm not sure that's what this is.
It's a recognition that in order to permit entry to other countries going forward (if the drawbridge ever comes down) and to prevent crews isolating/quarantining on return, vax is the ticket that's needed.
Plus it would be nice to one day leave a hotel on a slip again. Can't see other governments letting you roam around on a slip without a vax.

To be fair to Alan, he makes a solid point when he says that if COVID vax is not your thing, then international aviation going forward is probably not for you.

Just get vaccinated.It is pretty simple.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 10:53
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Vaccination is the only solution to get mass travel moving again.
Of all the blunt tools in the shed to deal with C-19, vaccination is the sharpest but is still far from a solution to this C-19 problem. All the current evidence suggests vaccination, like the other tools in the shed, only allow us to buy more time while scientists strive to find a better solution. The US and Israel are now talking about a third booster shot because of technical limitations with the current best solution.

To be fair to Alan, he makes a solid point when he says that if COVID vax is not your thing, then international aviation going forward is probably not for you.
Rest assured like most modern CEOs Alan cares not one iota about your health and well-being, you are very replaceable in his quest for a level of remuneration that you will never experience in your own personal lifetime. Unfortunately he is the boss, and like the many other company CEOs that have recently jumped on the bandwagon of reducing the whole complexity of this entire issue down to a simplistic no-jab-no-job slogan, they are not doing it with your interests in mind, they are not epidemiologists, they are just business people obsessed with making money full stop.

Whether you like it or not, a global pandemic that actually kills people is really bad for business. Vaccinated people still die, but don't let that get in the way of profits.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 11:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Vaccinated people still die, but don't let that get in the way of profits.
And so do people who wear seatbelts etc

Iíll take the extra layer of Swiss cheese thanks.

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Old 18th Aug 2021, 11:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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After reading the briefing sheet from the FDA I cannot see how QF will ever enforce this in court in the short term. How can something that is not officially approved for use be made compulsory for employment? Not to mention all the possible risks. And yes I am vaccinated however I could certainly understand why you might want to wait for a while. Also begs the question why you need to declare your medical history to your employer to just keep your job. QF are also running the risk of being sued by someone who has a weird reaction and loses their class 1. But I guess that is still cheaper than bankrupting an airline which is where they are coming from on this.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 11:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I’ll take the extra layer of Swiss cheese thanks.
Please do, I personally think the science behind the current vaccines are very good, but it's still a blunt instrument and does carry all sorts of edge risks. For example, as a fully vaccinated individual you can still catch C-19 and unknowingly pass it on to someone who is already immunosuppressed and unable to be vaccinated, and who will probably die as a consequence.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 11:43
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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It all comes down to personal circumstances, for me I'm old, I eat high performance, full fat everything, I'm vaccinated to drag that out as long as possible, there are still a few multi cultural foods I haven't sampled yet.. Will it make any difference, probably not, I'm ready for the omega strain, who knows the alpha strain maybe just that . The vaccination only deals with the trojan horse, the corona, the virus in there is unchanged, We clearly are incapable of dealing with over population so nature is going to take care of it, imposed, naturally or engineered, makes no difference.
I've been around long enough to know nothing last for very long, enjoy yourself, don't stress, do what you want to do.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 12:48
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Of all the blunt tools in the shed to deal with C-19, vaccination is the sharpest but is still far from a solution to this C-19 problem. All the current evidence suggests vaccination, like the other tools in the shed, only allow us to buy more time while scientists strive to find a better solution. The US and Israel are now talking about a third booster shot because of technical limitations with the current best solution.



Rest assured like most modern CEOs Alan cares not one iota about your health and well-being, you are very replaceable in his quest for a level of remuneration that you will never experience in your own personal lifetime. Unfortunately he is the boss, and like the many other company CEOs that have recently jumped on the bandwagon of reducing the whole complexity of this entire issue down to a simplistic no-jab-no-job slogan, they are not doing it with your interests in mind, they are not epidemiologists, they are just business people obsessed with making money full stop.

Whether you like it or not, a global pandemic that actually kills people is really bad for business. Vaccinated people still die, but don't let that get in the way of profits.

Well said -) a CEO's job is to make money for their Co, they couldn't care less how they go about and it is best done where they look good to the majority regardless of their stupidity!
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 13:02
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I can't believe the anti Vac stuff being peddled and seemingly believed on this subject by seemingly intelligent and responcible aviators. Vaccination is indeed a blunt tool, but its the only one at the moment.
I suppose I'll soon read that the AZ vaccine that I, and many thousands elsewhere have protecting me, is dangerous. And that taking a vaccination during pregnancy is too not recommended!
And yes, although 85/90% vaccinated, there is a tweaked Booster jab planned for rollout from Sept/Oct.
Fully vaccinated travel now up and running here, and just enjoyed two weeks in sunny Spain.(so far I have survived)
Nice to see some full Big Airline planes again, all with safely jabbed crews!

Last edited by cessnapete; 18th Aug 2021 at 13:13.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 14:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Please do, I personally think the science behind the current vaccines are very good, but it's still a blunt instrument and does carry all sorts of edge risks. For example, as a fully vaccinated individual you can still catch C-19 and unknowingly pass it on to someone who is already immunosuppressed and unable to be vaccinated, and who will probably die as a consequence.
that is sadly true. However, what is your solution? Unfortunately immunosuppresed people are vulnerable, and not just to COVID19. Iím afraid itís something that I guess they will have to manage themselves as they probably do with several other pathogens.
The world cannot grind to a halt forever.
You can moan and whinge on Internet forums about the vaccine, but if you want to work in international aviation again you simply wonít have a choice other than to be vaccinated. If you are against or donít want it youíll be free to find another career.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 16:29
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
After reading the briefing sheet from the FDA I cannot see how QF will ever enforce this in court in the short term. How can something that is not officially approved for use be made compulsory for employment? Not to mention all the possible risks. And yes I am vaccinated however I could certainly understand why you might want to wait for a while. Also begs the question why you need to declare your medical history to your employer to just keep your job. QF are also running the risk of being sued by someone who has a weird reaction and loses their class 1. But I guess that is still cheaper than bankrupting an airline which is where they are coming from on this.
Ohh FFS buddy, the bloody thing is not experimental nor is it ďnot officially approvedĒ

The technology behind the vaccines has been around for nearly 20 years plus, itís just been tweaked to fight the current coronavirus.

If you want to be a conspiracist, suggest a new career.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 20:27
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
After reading the briefing sheet from the FDA I cannot see how QF will ever enforce this in court in the short term. How can something that is not officially approved for use be made compulsory for employment? Not to mention all the possible risks. And yes I am vaccinated however I could certainly understand why you might want to wait for a while. Also begs the question why you need to declare your medical history to your employer to just keep your job. QF are also running the risk of being sued by someone who has a weird reaction and loses their class 1. But I guess that is still cheaper than bankrupting an airline which is where they are coming from on this.
Impressive Neville, not only do you know more about vaccines than doctors, you know more about law than the entire Qantas legal department
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 22:01
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Lets be honest, if you lost your class one as a result Of the vaccine (I don't see why that would happen) most people would try to sue them wouldn't they?
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 22:14
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Ohh FFS buddy, the bloody thing is not experimental nor is it “not officially approved

Except the FDA documentation specifically says that it is not an approved drug and it is up to you to decide if the risk is worth it. It's just because of circumstances it has been exempted. Bit of a difference between deciding if you want to take the risk vs being made to do so by your employer.

Honestly I think QF are getting desperate so they figure most staff are going to get it anyway and the risk of someone losing their job as a result of the vaccine is low enough to virtue signal it.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 22:53
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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There are a few Airlines that now require vaccination to remain in employment as a Front Line worker. Simple answer is that if you don't want to do it no issue. Just choose a different career as the chances or redeployment are slim to none. You have a greater chance of losing your Class 1 with a myriad of other issues and I would think that post Covid lung capacity issues or other damage would probably make that happen as well. Rule #5 though says "Don't take medical advice from a Pilot" so Caveat Emptor. In the end make your own decision and own the outcome.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 22:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Except the FDA documentation specifically says that it is not an approved drug and it is up to you to decide if the risk is worth it. It's just because of circumstances it has been exempted. Bit of a difference between deciding if you want to take the risk vs being made to do so by your employer.

Honestly I think QF are getting desperate so they figure most staff are going to get it anyway and the risk of someone losing their job as a result of the vaccine is low enough to virtue signal it.
Not sure why you keep referring to the FDA - it has no relevance in Australia, and definitely not in any Australian Court as you referred to previously.

Maybe go read the TGA research and advice.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 23:05
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Itís called Provisional Approval in Australia, which means the same thing.
i.e. take at your own risk.
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Old 18th Aug 2021, 23:28
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
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Please stop doing what these CEOs are doing by reducing the whole C-19 argument down to jingoistic slogans - otherwise known as letting someone else do your thinking for you.

There is a newer potentially less blunt tool currently being developed in the Oz back shed called COVAX-19. This tool is still undergoing clinical trials and is expected to be released before this year closes. Apparently it is significantly better than the current generation of vaccines in that it offers a) permanent immunity and b) blocks transmission. See link below.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...72371221000048

Let's hope sense prevails and community health decisions are made for the benefit of everyone rather than just for these CEOs.
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