Airline Pilot re-employment ?

[Ladloy]

Originally Posted by getaway

USA deaths rates haven't actually increased, just instead of dying from flu, they die from corona.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...outputType=amp
25 to 40 age group has deaths 25% higher than previous years
300k more deaths this year than last.

[dr dre]

C’mon children, stick to the topic of helping our colleagues find meaningful employment, there’s enough threads on this website if you want to go down the rabbit hole of Covid truthing conspiracy theories.

[KRUSTY 34]

A mate of mine (stood down A380 F/O) gave me a call the other day. “Krusty, you know how people refer to us as glorified bus drivers, well now I’m a real one”. Apparently the company he’s now working for has taken on a few stood down Long haul drivers.

Probably not what we envisioned as the final years leading up to retirement, but at least it gives a purpose to getting up in the morning.

I think pilots in their 30’s/40’s who have had everything ripped away after finally starting to see the fruits of many years of climbing the ladder, will have the greatest challenges.

[PilotLZ]

I know some pilots who hold a HGV licence and drive trucks whenever there's no flying. I also know some marine personnel who do the same in between contracts (in the world of ships, relatively few hold permanent jobs, most work on contracts that are 4-8 months in length and you have to look for a new one almost every time you step ashore). Few truck drivers are career drivers, most only do this job temporarily. Also, starting as a driver, you can advance your career in the logistics company as someone in dispatch and management. Could be an option if you're looking for something to fill in a gap between now and the next flying job or between now and retirement. Many of those jobs only involve driving short distances, so you won't necessarily get to sleep in the driver's cab even once. But, if you do - be very wary of where you stop. On some dodgy parking lots, you can easily get gassed and robbed while sleeping. Worse than that, there have been cases of drivers who were not aware that they had been gassed and ended up getting on the road and getting in an accident because of dizziness.

Another option I can think of is teaching. Depending on your knowledge, interests and aptitude towards teaching, you might be able to find a job as a lecturer in some technical subject. Ask around the educational institutions in your area. It doesn't have to be an ATO, quite the contrary. Universities and colleges tend to look for people who have actual industrial experience, as opposed to purely academic one, for the delivery of some practically orientated modules.

[Obscured by clouds]

One avenue worth thinking about are the emergency services (Police, Fire, Ambulance). They are all (very) underpaid for the work they do however this is offset by the excellent rosters (particularly the ambos and firies) which allow another job on the side. It is very satisfying and you're working with a fantastic bunch of people.
There is no upper age limit however the selection process for each service is very competitive and takes a number of months to go through.

[LostWanderer]

Originally Posted by Obscured by clouds

One avenue worth thinking about are the emergency services (Police, Fire, Ambulance). They are all (very) underpaid for the work they do however this is offset by the excellent rosters (particularly the ambos and firies) which allow another job on the side. It is very satisfying and you're working with a fantastic bunch of people.
There is no upper age limit however the selection process for each service is very competitive and takes a number of months to go through.

Agreed. However most emergency services roles have a 1+ year wait from application to employment, could be a good path if you expect to be out of flying for 3-4 years still

[krismiler]

I think pilots in their 30’s/40’s who have had everything ripped away after finally starting to see the fruits of many years of climbing the ladder, will have the greatest challenges.

In your 30s you're still young enough to change careers permanently or get back into flying when things pick up.
In your 40s it's more difficult and your commitments are higher.
In your 50s it will be much more difficult, however you may have done well enough to retire/semi retire.
In your 60s forget it, by the time recruitment starts again you'll be too old.

Driving jobs always make the list, however most states require you to have held a Heavy Rigid licence for a year before you can apply for a Heavy Combination licence. Uber is easy to get into, very flexible and much easier with GPS having replaced the Refidex. However some states have suspended new driver sign ups due to COVID.

Earlier this year I was appraising my options just in case, and FIFO on the mines in WA seemed quite appealing with $110 000/year for 2 weeks on/1 week off for dump truck drivers. If you can get onto a grader $200 000/year is possible.

Breaking into a new area of employment is usually difficult, more so at a time like this but anyone who has done the hard yards in GA won't be too put off. Remember the number of charter companies you knocked on the door of before you got a break ? Remember trying to get a twin job with 10 hours M/E time ? Remember thinking you would never even get onto a turbo prop let alone an airline ?

These days any job will usually be better than the shonky GA employers of 20 years ago who didn't even pay the award.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by krismiler

In your 30s you're still young enough to change careers permanently or get back into flying when things pick up.

Whilst doing a career change to another professional occupation may be an option and a goal for some, it isn’t exactly a desirable path. 30’s is an age where after the early transient stage of the 20s a lot of pilots have hit the stable airline job with decent pay, have married, started a family, have a mortgage without much equity or other assets. Financially vulnerable.

To start another professional career (which most pilots would have the aptitude to do) would involve 3+yrs of university, and then entry level roles in that field which would likely be poorly paid. It would take a few years beyond that to start approaching their previous income level, in the meantime the struggles and pressures would occur. There’s really no easy solutions.

[PilotLZ]

The reason why most pilots who are temporarily out of flying end up in less-than-prestigious jobs with a high staff turnover rate is exactly because they're pilots. Most employers realise that they will be gone in 60 seconds the very moment a flying job is thrown their way. And it's almost impossible to persuade anyone that, after having been subjected to a compulsory redundancy, you are now dreaming of a job that pays less than half of a pilot's salary becoming your "new normal" once and forever.

[Buster Hyman]

But not unheard of PLZ. I worked with an ex AN Pilot in the Public Service. He was doing well & was happy. Had no intention of returning. Of course, that was just one but if you put your mind to it, AND were genuine in your desire to start a new career, I don't think it's impossible.

[PilotLZ]

True that - but you need to be VERY convincing that you're 100% committed to a PERMANENT career change and there's no going back, whether aviation recovers or not in the foreseeable future. If you can convince your new employer that you're here to stay, getting a head start into a new career is not impossible. But if you give off the impression of someone who hasn't completely disengaged from aviation and left behind any idea of flying - see previous post.

[Luke SkyToddler]

I'm driving a bulldozer doing farm forestry conversions, and pretending that every pile of stumps is my airline management office

And trying to study and keep current as much as possible cause I do believe, it's suddenly going to come good again just as quickly as it went bad

[BendyFlyer]

BUSBITCH and others - A very good question. Some of us have been on that merrygoaround several times in our lifetimes. The best advice I would offer anybody is I have no advice but I would highly recommend a very good book called :

"WHAT COLOUR IS YOUR PARACHUTE by Richard Nelson Bolles"

Cheap book but priceless assistance - it simply gets you to focus on yourself, your attitudes, likes dislikes, where you want to live etc through a series of really well thought out exercise that help you re-examine yourself and where you want or need to go. If you do the various exercises and steps conscientiously you may come up with a range of possibilities that you can then focus on doing or looking for. Have lots of butcher paper handy you have to make up a lot of lists about a lot of stuff about yourself etc. It got me out of the rut of what do I do now, where is a job etc and a lot of self indulgent reflection to focus positively on a whole lot of stuff particularly related to work and what we do and where we do it.

It helped me actually discover the jobs I had done and thought I had done I never really wanted to do and actually hated and where I lived was not where I really wanted to live either. So yes, never lost my passion for aviation but rejigged it into a realistic outcome, did I get rich nah who gets rich in aviation? but I actually have enjoyed my life and where I got to live ever since. Still plenty of crap comes your way but thats life. As for the other half, if your in a relationship well this should help as well got to negotiate with yourself and others I guess. No miracle cure for that one except learning to listen.

And yes I guess there is the issue of luck and fate we all need it and some of us miss it but recognising that because someone else seems to have done good in some way just means they were lucky not blessed. Ernest K Gann dealt with an aviators luck in his classic "Fate is the Hunter".

For a lousy $36 from a whole bunch of booksellers really worth the effort and time. The outcome will keep you focused on where your going for yourself even if you go sideways every now and then on the journey.

Take care.

PS - the book has been around a long time I first worked my way through it about 1989 if I recall over 30 years ago now. Has pride of place on my bookshelf. And yes, no regrets ever since then about where I decided to go and do it all worked out fine.

[wheels_down]

I hope all you young ones take note of this thread and see the potential importance of learning something else in the 5-10 years post school prior to starting your aviation career in poverty wages.

What’s the rush. Enjoy life. Jump into it late 20s. I could not think of anything more miserable than becoming a pilot right after school.

[Centaurus]

At age 53 was retrenched from an overseas 737 operator many years ago. Used to fly Prime Ministers and Governors General in the RAAF in a previous career. Applied to be an Australia Post motor bike postie. Never got past the then public service aptitude test even though I already had logged 100 hours driving my own 50cc Honda motor bike same model as the posties. Just the luck of the draw.

[KRUSTY 34]

Originally Posted by Centaurus

At age 53 was retrenched from an overseas 737 operator many years ago. Used to fly Prime Ministers and Governors General in the RAAF in a previous career. Applied to be an Australia Post motor bike postie. Never got past the then public service aptitude test even though I already had logged 100 hours driving my own 50cc Honda motor bike same model as the posties. Just the luck of the draw.

Interesting thing some selection processes. I recently interviewed for a position that would have been perfect for me. Definitely out of interview practice, and in hindsight would have done it differently. When I asked HR for some feedback they kindly agreed. Curiously the feedback didn’t give any specifics about my own performance but the HR lady lamented how the two successful candidates were unable to pass induction training! Yeah!

[spektrum]

I could not think of anything more miserable than becoming a pilot right after school.

I don't know man. Sitting in a lecture hall bored as hell or laying bricks with a bunch of kids who failed school doesn't sound like a great alternative.

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by spektrum

I don't know man. Sitting in a lecture hall bored as hell or laying bricks with a bunch of kids who failed school doesn't sound like a great alternative.

Nobody fails school anymore. And a good bricklayer is the smartest one in the room, beats being an unemployed pilot.

[patty50]

I’m a soon to be made redundant airline employee (non-pilot) and the job market in Sydney is looking pretty good. A number of my colleagues have found new work in decent jobs that don’t involve driving or shelf stacking. Relocating for most simply isn’t a viable option.

I think for many spamming job ads could be the way to go. There are so many random things out there these days that you will be tangentially qualified for that you’ve never even heard of. Set up a very vague seek job alert and look through what you like. Apply to everything interesting, the worst they can do is say no.

Obviously you’ll need a good story for why you won’t rush off in 5 minutes but the downsides of long haul flying aren’t difficult to explain.

My impression of late is that employers seem to be keen to swallow up airline employees knowing that by and large they are hard workers with heads screwed on straight. They know why you’re in the predicament you are in, many are sympathetic and will give you the benefit of the doubt.