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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 14th Jul 2020, 10:52
  #781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Originally Posted by tenretni View Post
If the company makes LWOP available only to a select few then I dare say more senior pilots who have not been given that option would have something to say about it.
But Tino said he wants everyone to take it?
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 10:55
  #782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The information from AIPA is clear.

VR will be oversubscribed and will manage the current surplus. CR will not be required.

IF the situation changes in the future and the surplus grows, there is no reason to expect that the company will not allow more applications for LWOP. Going straight to CR at that point would be a) more expensive for them and b) legally problematic for them. Why would the company choose the more expensive, more complicated option over allowing people to go on LWOP?

No Qantas pilot should feel pressured into taking LWOP, including Tail End Charlie at 2700+. IF and only if, you have a job, work opportunity, or contract you would like to commit to, then certainly apply for LWOP. Otherwise, remain on stand down and accrue your entitlements. By going on LWOP out of fear of CR, you are helping nobody including yourself. It is only at the company's discretion that they will bypass someone on LWOP in lieu of CR.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 12:18
  #783 (permalink)  
Keg

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Normanton, you’re not thinking this all the way through. If they send out a CR notice and you say to them ‘hang on a sec, instead of paying me 6 months pay, how about paying me nothing and I’ll just go LWOP until you tell me you need me’ which option do you reckon they’ll take? Mig3 is spot on here.

They have a bucket of money labelled ‘redundancy’. They’re happy to spend it for certain people- particularly those towards the end of their careers. They’d likely prefer to avoid spending it on someone they’re virtually guaranteed to bring back into the fold in just a couple of years time.

Of course Tino wants everyone to take LWOP so that his costs to $0. However If he expects me to be prepared to ‘jump now’ when he needs me then he needs to understand that he has to pay a ‘retainer’ for that privilege.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 14:44
  #784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Keg, that’s not exactly what Mig3 said. They suggested the company may choose to offer more LWOP rather than issue CR.

But I don’t think you have another option once issued with CR.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:53
  #785 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mig3 View Post
The information from AIPA is clear.

VR will be oversubscribed and will manage the current surplus. CR will not be required.
How does AIPA have this information?
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 19:11
  #786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Do you have any source for "apparently"?

Two minutes on the internet shows the opposite to be the case. Alice Springs is much less humid than Mojave.

https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...tes-of-America

https://weather-and-climate.com/aver...ings,Australia
You are linking to the humidity in Los Angeles. You need to read the fine print.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 21:13
  #787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
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Well the company is doing a good job scaring the wits out of everyone? Especially the junior ones.
Look at the posts here?
In the current climate it’s inexcusable!
Re Mig3’s post for the most factual information for those junior!
Focus on the light at the end of the tunnel. Everyday is one step closer.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 21:42
  #788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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The company will push SLWOP/LWOP before they move to CR......it makes economic sense.....saves spending their cash reserves. So the juniors should not be panicking at all. Remember on this forum there is a lot of “self-interest” postings...it’s actually quite easy to work out who they are, based on what and how often they post! AIPA is still working for the benefit of all pilots regardless of seniority or what LH/SH they are in. No time to panic!!!
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 21:50
  #789 (permalink)  
 
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I would also argue the ones advocating to sit on their hands are probably at risk without the buffer below if it got down to it.

The reality is, there wonít be international flying for quite some time. LWOP will give some certainty and allow you to gain other employment while awaiting the return to flying. Itís also extendable. So if things are looking bad approaching your return date, you simply extend it.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 00:47
  #790 (permalink)  
 
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A recent Deloitte report suggests domestic travel volumes will not return to 2019 levels until 2023. Thats domestic. International is worse.
Available here
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/202...ry-until-2023/

Some very negative consumer sentiment graphs, with the last data point being 27 June. At that date, 20% of population surveyed felt safe flying. Nothing good has happened since 27 June.

Airline management will be closely looking at this (and similar) reports.

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Old 15th Jul 2020, 00:52
  #791 (permalink)  
Keg

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Blueskymine, you know ‘sit on your hands’ doesn’t mean forever? It just means that no one needs to jump immediately to LWOP until we have more information about how effective VR has been. By all means consider it as a possibility down the track but for the moment? Until the results of VR are known? There’s no decision yet to be made so don’t make it!
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 01:20
  #792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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For goodness sake the lords of PPRuNe and the seniority lists urging people to "hang in there" , easy to do when your position is highly likely safe
or putting forward the view "it's all a big bluff" or "call AIPA - they have all wisdom & knowledge"

The deadline for LWOP is less than 4 weeks away so you won't get to do an analysis of VR before making a decision

Assume this LWOP window is the only one you will get

Or "hang in there" continue to accrue your ever so precious entitlements (its all about the entitlements !) then get a larger payout when CR does fall on
your low seniority number. So you walk out the door with more annual leave dollars , more long service leave dollars and the 3 months CR payout dollars , and the
3 or 4 weeks for each year of service & be proud that you didn't give an inch of your "entitlements". But also understand that you will only be re-employed when QF
opens employment and that will likely be ten years away



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Old 15th Jul 2020, 01:21
  #793 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder if Deloittes showed those graphics to the bidders for VA.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 01:46
  #794 (permalink)  
 
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Keg, as a few people have suggested, can you actually read the email, look at the applicable dates and tell us how people have time to sit on their hands to see how VR will play out before applying for LWOP.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 01:55
  #795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
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Itís a big gamble. Donít take LWOP and have the risk of being made CR, as TLS has said thereís currently a 1500 pilot surplus in international. Although re employment will be done in seniority order, you will lose any seniority accrued and placed on the bottom of the list, behind those who did take LWOP.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 03:34
  #796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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JobKeeper review announcement is one week away, next Thursday 23rd. Instead of trying to instil fear on here and in all your little whatsapp group(-think) messages, why don't you go and get a job at Dan Murphy's - then you can apply for (S)LWOP fat, dumb and happy (when that time comes) because you actually have a job to go to. I vehemently disagreed with Keg when it came to our recent EBA but couldn't agree more with what he's saying here. Please just see that people are dumbfounded as to why you'd jump at LWOP immediately. I mean, go for it, or don't - we're just sitting here scratching our heads as to why you'd leap in to a defined LWOP period without knowing anywhere near all the information.

There's a reason the CR provisions are so cumbersome. I've been very critical of AIPA on here but they're saying/doing/supporting all the right things (at the moment) that will help everyone, as long as people don't fly off the rails in the mean time. So sit on your hands!

Also, normanton, the more he/she/they post, the more they give away that they don't actually work for QF: there aren't any QF pilots in their "early twenties".

Last edited by ConfigFull; 15th Jul 2020 at 03:34. Reason: spelling
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 04:09
  #797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Also, normanton, the more he/she/they post, the more they give away that they don't actually work for QF: there aren't any QF pilots in their "early twenties".[/QUOTE]


Actually, thereís a fair few. Difficult to tell some apart from the kids who board in their Joey Club costumes.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 04:35
  #798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Obviously everyoneís financial circumstances and leave balances are different, but taking LWOP and simply relying on an extension to Jobkeeper, plus a bit of casual work (which is getting increasingly hard to find), would be barely enough to keep my young familyís head above water in the long term. By remaining stood down and on the books, at least I can access something as little as 1/4 paid leave which would make a huge difference.

Go out and have a look at the job market for an unskilled Pilot, itís nasty and competitive, especially when people think youíre just going to leave as soon as QF come calling. Obviously we donít know when that time will be but jumping straight into LWOP looks like the riskier option if you ask me.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 04:36
  #799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ConfigFull View Post

Also, normanton, the more he/she/they post, the more they give away that they don't actually work for QF: there aren't any QF pilots in their "early twenties".
You just lost all credibility.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 04:38
  #800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by Cdash View Post
Also, normanton, the more he/she/they post, the more they give away that they don't actually work for QF: there aren't any QF pilots in their "early twenties".

Actually, thereís a fair few. Difficult to tell some apart from the kids who board in their Joey Club costumes.[/QUOTE]

really? Whilst folks consider how bad their career is going/CR you go down this path? Sad and pathetic
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